Mesa Subway DI's, Gone For Good?

[agedhorse]

Will this be the preamp of the Bass 800D?

It’s based on the preamp from the Subway D-800+

 

[BrentSimons]

Ok guys, I promised you a couple of weeks ago that I would let you know about the new Subway+ Preamp-DI pedal that I've been working on for so long, here's some pictures and I will work on getting the owner's manual available as soon as I can.

This is special early information for TB players since you were all instrumental to helping refine the feature set (including size and cost) into the resulting end product, therefor you deserve an earlier sneak peak!

Al Kraft, Gus Kendrick and Tom Bowlus have all had some time with it and can provide their impressions from a player perspective as I think this is probably the most valuable for players. Gus got some time with it on tour too, so there's some additional real world experience here.

For those of you who have been hounding me to make it smaller, the dimensions are: 6” (152mm) wide x 4.3” (110mm) deep (including jacks) x 2.5” (63mm) high (including knobs and feet)

That looks awesome @agedhorse ! Wicked!

 

[agedhorse]

Here's a copy of the owner's manual, everything should be live on the website tomorrow.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Andy didn't mention it is only $199

 

[PWolverine]

Here's a copy of the owner's manual, everything should be live on the website tomorrow.

How soon will it be released? And what would be the best way to get one in Australia? Is it better just to order one from the US?

 

[bucephylus]

Thanks for the update Andy.

Nice looking pedal; but, would not fit many of my gigs. The lack of XLR Line Level switch would complicate many of my gigs.

Yes, I am well aware the sound engineer has the pad / no pad at the board. But, many of my gigs have multiple bands with minimal time between acts for sound checks. The prevailing majority of bass amp DI’s are line level. Or, so it seems; because I often get blank looks from the sound engineer if I send a mic level signal. They just tend to presume the bass feed is line level in my neck of the woods. Maybe, it’s a hillbilly thing, IDK.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

Ok guys, I promised you a couple of weeks ago that I would let you know about the new Subway+ Preamp-DI pedal that I've been working on for so long, here's some pictures and I will work on getting the owner's manual available as soon as I can.

This is special early information for TB players since you were all instrumental to helping refine the feature set (including size and cost) into the resulting end product, therefor you deserve an earlier sneak peak!

Al Kraft, Gus Kendrick and Tom Bowlus have all had some time with it and can provide their impressions from a player perspective as I think this is probably the most valuable for players. Gus got some time with it on tour too, so there's some additional real world experience here.

For those of you who have been hounding me to make it smaller, the dimensions are: 6” (152mm) wide x 4.3” (110mm) deep (including jacks) x 2.5” (63mm) high (including knobs and feet)

Thanks for the update, and for updating this great preamp pedal!

I did end up getting the Subway+ DI a couple of years ago, not too long after my earlier post in this thread, and it has been a great addition to my gigging arsenal. On the MKII, it looks like the primary changes besides size were addition of the Bright switch and updating the output options. I do like the headphone out and the size. I'm guessing dropping the extra DI and effects loop saves both space and $?

Couple of questions:
I notice that there's no longer an effects loop, which I use when running it off the TT's SW channel. Would the the Headphone or Preamp outputs be at the correct level for the effects return of the TT? I'd guess the Preamp Out, being line level, would be the way to go for that use?

Voicing, you mentioned in a different post, should be about the same as the original Subway+, apart form the Bright switch?

It now takes 9-18v power vs 9v, and draws slightly less current, 40 vs 50 mA. Is there an effect on headroom or other aspects of performance of the pedal at different power input levels?

Congratulations on another winning product! Get ready for another run of "When are they getting to xxxx?" posts. These are going to fly off the shelf at that price!

 

[agedhorse]

How soon will it be released? And what would be the best way to get one in Australia? Is it better just to order one from the US?

Tomorrow

Thanks for the update Andy.

Nice looking pedal; but, would not fit many of my gigs. The lack of XLR Line Level switch would complicate many of my gigs.

Yes, I am well aware the sound engineer has the pad / no pad at the board. But, many of my gigs have multiple bands with minimal time between acts for sound checks. The prevailing majority of bass amp DI’s are line level. Or, so it seems; because I often get blank looks from the sound engineer if I send a mic level signal. They just tend to presume the bass feed is line level in my neck of the woods. Maybe, it’s a hillbilly thing, IDK.

Most bass DI’s are a hot mic level, which it the same as this.

If this makes it not work for you, then you will need to find something else. True line level outputs aren’t common unless switchable and most pedals are mic level from what I have seen.

Thanks for the update, and for updating this great preamp pedal!

I did end up getting the Subway+ DI a couple of years ago, not too long after my earlier post in this thread, and it has been a great addition to my gigging arsenal. On the MKII, it looks like the primary changes besides size were addition of the Bright switch and updating the output options. I do like the headphone out and the size. I'm guessing dropping the extra DI and effects loop saves both space and $?

Couple of questions:
I notice that there's no longer an effects loop, which I use when running it off the TT's SW channel. Would the the Headphone or Preamp outputs be at the correct level for the effects return of the TT? I'd guess the Preamp Out, being line level, would be the way to go for that use?

Voicing, you mentioned in a different post, should be about the same as the original Subway+, apart form the Bright switch?

It now takes 9-18v power vs 9v, and draws slightly less current, 40 vs 50 mA. Is there an effect on headroom or other aspects of performance of the pedal at different power input levels?

Congratulations on another winning product! Get ready for another run of "When are they getting to xxxx?" posts. These are going to fly off the shelf at that price!

Dropping the second DI saved space, not so much cost. The effects loop was rarely used Do this also saved space. The preamp output is the correct level to work with most amp’s effects returns, but you need to use a tip-sleeve plus since the balanced configuration won’t work correctly with a stereo summing input.

 

[bass12]

Very cool. I'm definitely going to have to pick one of these up.

 

[bucephylus]

Most bass DI’s are a hot mic level, which it the same as this.

If this makes it not work for you, then you will need to find something else. True line level outputs aren’t common unless switchable and most pedals are mic level from what I have seen.

For possible clarification, I’ve had good success with SE’s using the XLR out on the SansAmp BDDI V1 set for Line. If I set it for Mic, I get the blank looks.

I don’t know if this a tech issue or terminology issue.

My Demeter amps have Mic level output from a Jensen Xfrmr, and have been essentially useless.

I just don’t have the luxury of the time for confusion at sound check. So, having some kind of control over the output amplitude is far preferable. For my gigs. But, those do not have your level of expertise.

 

[agedhorse]

For possible clarification, I’ve had good success with SE’s using the XLR out on the SansAmp BDDI V1 set for Line. If I set it for Mic, I get the blank looks.

I don’t know if this a tech issue or terminology issue.

My Demeter amps have Mic level output from a Jensen Xfrmr, and have been essentially useless.

I just don’t have the luxury of the time for confusion at sound check. So, having some kind of control over the output amplitude is far preferable. For my gigs. But, those do not have your level of expertise.

Then this is obviously the wrong product for your needs.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Then this is obviously the wrong product for your needs.

I haven't done sound in awhile but if I remember correctly a simple toggle or push button switch on mixer choose Mic or Line Level on most if not all mixers

If that is to complicated for Sound person or player well......

PS: Is there any clear benefit for one over the other?

 

[Chris Chong]

the fella behind the desk is probably too lazy to adjust the bass channel gain for mic level input.

 

[TomB]

Every built-in bass amp DI I’ve owned way back to my early GK’s has been more or less mic level. I thought that balancing those various inputs (boosting inst level) was the whole idea of putting it there. Even the cheapest sound boards have some instrument or switched channels, the rest are mic, as are most DI outputs. You sure the blank looks are your fault?

 

[agedhorse]

For those of you who messaged me because of difficulty finding the release information (totally understandable), here's a direct link:

https://www.gibson.com/products/mesa-boogie-subway-plus-bass-di-preamp-ii?view=mesa

 

[sunbeast]

Thanks for the update Andy.

Nice looking pedal; but, would not fit many of my gigs. The lack of XLR Line Level switch would complicate many of my gigs.

Yes, I am well aware the sound engineer has the pad / no pad at the board. But, many of my gigs have multiple bands with minimal time between acts for sound checks. The prevailing majority of bass amp DI’s are line level. Or, so it seems; because I often get blank looks from the sound engineer if I send a mic level signal. They just tend to presume the bass feed is line level in my neck of the woods. Maybe, it’s a hillbilly thing, IDK.

DI standard has always been mic level. Soundguys should assume mic level from any XLR coming from a stage, as most of the XLRs coming from stage are attached to mics.

 

[bucephylus]

DI standard has always been mic level. Soundguys should assume mic level from any XLR coming from a stage, as most of the XLRs coming from stage are attached to mics.

I understand this is the standard TB line. Heard it many times. Got it.

Sadly, the Sound Engineers at our county fair stages and wine festival stages haven’t read that book. The view from the trenches here is different. Rather than contesting the point at our sound checks, I prefer to keep things on the easy. YMMV.

 

[bucephylus]

Every built-in bass amp DI I’ve owned way back to my early GK’s has been more or less mic level. I thought that balancing those various inputs (boosting inst level) was the whole idea of putting it there. Even the cheapest sound boards have some instrument or switched channels, the rest are mic, as are most DI outputs. You sure the blank looks are your fault?

Certainly, blame me. That’s fine.

Yes, as I posted, the boards certainly have an input pad. I find 9 times out of 10 that in our brief sound checks, that pad is already engaged from the previous act. Since the pad is engaged, a mic level signal causes no signal to appear on the board. Should the Sound Engineer check the pad at that point? Yes; but, they don’t, instead assuming a bad cable. To be fair, some of my gigs are 9 piece bands, with mic’d drums, multiple microphones and complex stage monitor mixes. The Sound Engineer is just trying to get the check done, while the audience is waiting. Correcting the pad setting from the stage delays the sound check; and is a complication I would rather avoid.

But, feel free to blame me; no worries.

Also, my DI feeds have both Mic and Line XLR capability. I can switch. I’m good either way. I just try to help the Sound Engineers make us sound good.

BTW, I just sold my excellent GK Legacy combo, after doing two seasons worth of gigs. AI states that output as mic level; but the boards all use the input pad. Possibly, this goes back to Andy’s comment that bass amp DI’s are “hot mic” level. All I know is that my Demeter Jensen DI feeds require disengaging the pad on the board input, Amps, like the Legacy generally need the pad on the board. My BDDI has both Mic and Line, with the latter requiring the pad, and the former requiring disengaging the pad. I don’t know about the rest of you; but, I find all of that slightly confusing.

So, are there three DI out levels? Mic, “Hot Mic,” and Line? I always defined Line to mean that the board’s input pad would be engaged.

Whatever. I’ll most likely be using my Shift Line Olympic pre/DI for upcoming gigs; and that box simply has a volume control for the DI. No terminology confusion required.

 

[agedhorse]

Hot mic level is a compromise between mic and line, MOST consoles can handle this or either mic or line position (presuming the tech understands the channel gain control).

 

[DrThumpenstein]

Tomorrow


Most bass DI’s are a hot mic level, which it the same as this.

If this makes it not work for you, then you will need to find something else. True line level outputs aren’t common unless switchable and most pedals are mic level from what I have seen.


Dropping the second DI saved space, not so much cost. The effects loop was rarely used Do this also saved space. The preamp output is the correct level to work with most amp’s effects returns, but you need to use a tip-sleeve plus since the balanced configuration won’t work correctly with a stereo summing input.

Thanks.

Also, thanks for not mentioning that the original SW+DI has a Bright switch. Guess I didn't use it on the pedal like I do with the BD! Also, I should revisit it on the pedal, I guess...