Double Bass Method Book For Adult Self-Teaching

[damonsmith]

I found it very confusing...so confusing, in fact, that I ended up completely disregarding it and thinking of them in other ways.

Right, that is what I mean. Whatever the method you choose says, you are still going to have to think for yourself! I mean the reality isn't that confusing.

 

[David Potts]

I liken the learning process to building an upside-down pyramid of layers of knowledge whose strength relies on how you are first taught to use HEE (Hands, Eyes and Ears). The hands find and produce notes, eyes read the notes and other information, and the ears are monitors for correctness. Simandl and similar tutors may provide a structured approach to making sense of the fingerboard, scales and connecting notes (fingerings) but leave heaps of missing technical information to a teacher. For all the reasons so eloquently stated above by E Fuqua I will always support finding a teacher from the start, preferably a good one, but acknowledge that this is not always possible or wanted. Even with the help of Youtube a beginner self-teaching from a tutor has a much tougher road to follow.

I have read all the submissions above to this thread as well as the other concurrent thread, " What some bass education materials that you'd like to see out there", and am left with my ongoing feeling that there is room for a small book yet to be written.This is where I agree with Tom Lane (see the other thread). It would be a companion, and not a replacement, for the old bass tutors that I am familiar with. This printed reference material would seek to make better sense and logic of the basic set-ups and techniques required to begin and progress on the instrument.

 

[Steve Freides]

Anyone even entertaining self-teaching needs to be able to figure out the positions. It isn't actually confusing in the least. Also, the ABCs of bass might be nice to teach a kid, any adult who is going to get anywhere with the instrument is going to be fine with a serious method.

Different strokes for different folks, @damonsmith. I use the same books for all the instruments I teach, which means I use books a 5-year-old can use on the piano when I start a new adult student. IMO, it's better to be able to skip things or move quickly through a book rather than not having enough material at each level. I also make it a point to say that, if we need it, we'll use a second or even a third beginner book and move back and forth between books, just to get in additional repertoire at a particular level before moving on.

As to positions, I've been playing the double bass for 10-15 years now, and it's only in the last year or so that I actually understand position numbers on this instrument. The way it's done on guitar makes much more sense - a position is simply whatever fret your first finger is in. I tend to talk about positions on double bass as "your first finger would be on C" rather than calling it third position, and that's actually how I think about it - what note your first finger would be at on the first string.

I'm ranging off the original topic here, but one thing I've found frustrating about Simandl and that approach is that all positions are somehow equal. I spend a lot of time with students switching to that "first finger on C" position because I feel it makes the most sense to learn that one after learning "first" position, simply because they end up having to play a "D" a lot as the highest note in the pieces they have to play. I prefer that they get really good at one position switch, in this case first to third, rather than practice more of them early on.

-S-

 

[damonsmith]

If what you are teaching is working for you, I am not suggesting you change it in the least. I am however, strongly disagreeing with you recommending a kid's book for an adult who wants to teach themselves.
As I've stated before, each change from the overwhelmingly recommended path of getting a teacher and using Simandl contains a risk.

A bit off topic: While I tend to have more adult students and even working musicians, I believe in teaching the instrument thoroughly and instilling the idea that they will be able to play what they want in the end.
I am against skipping steps to get people playing "songs" to keep them happy. That leads to situations like guitarists thinking there are 6 different notes in their campfire chords a lazy guitar teacher showed so they would keep coming back.
Still, I think any bass player who is getting anywhere with the instrument quickly thinks about what notes they have access to over position names. I think we've all said as much in the thread. First finger on C it is.

Different strokes for different folks, @damonsmith. I use the same books for all the instruments I teach, which means I use books a 5-year-old can use on the piano when I start a new adult student. IMO, it's better to be able to skip things or move quickly through a book rather than not having enough material at each level. I also make it a point to say that, if we need it, we'll use a second or even a third beginner book and move back and forth between books, just to get in additional repertoire at a particular level before moving on.

As to positions, I've been playing the double bass for 10-15 years now, and it's only in the last year or so that I actually understand position numbers on this instrument. The way it's done on guitar makes much more sense - a position is simply whatever fret your first finger is in. I tend to talk about positions on double bass as "your first finger would be on C" rather than calling it third position, and that's actually how I think about it - what note your first finger would be at on the first string.

I'm ranging off the original topic here, but one thing I've found frustrating about Simandl and that approach is that all positions are somehow equal. I spend a lot of time with students switching to that "first finger on C" position because I feel it makes the most sense to learn that one after learning "first" position, simply because they end up having to play a "D" a lot as the highest note in the pieces they have to play. I prefer that they get really good at one position switch, in this case first to third, rather than practice more of them early on.

-S-

 

[Co.]

I don't think, self-teaching is a really good idea on a instrument as demanding as the double bass. Bad habits are really hard to unlearn and might lead to health issues. No news here.

Regarding what method to use for studying with a teacher, a quote form Joel Quarrington:
"Like many people, I was first taught the bass in the so-called “Simandl style”. I doubt very much this really
helped me at all - I suffered a lot of pain and hated how I sounded but my love for the music and playing
the bass kept me coming back for more. I know some people argue that Simandl is the best for laying the
foundation of technique, but now I completely disagree; for many years when I was the bass instructor for
the National Youth Orchestra of Canada I used to observe that the students (mostly from Québec) being
brought up in the Rabbath school, played much easier and better and progressed much faster than anyone
from the more traditional methods. Typically a Rabbath school student was in the NYO after only three
years of study compared to the six years of study it took the others."

I think most, if not not all of his technique concepts can be applied to bass playing in all musical genres. Even if you chose, not to play in a singing, vibrato heavy style, as he does.

If you want to learn to play the double bass and need to learn fingerboard geometry first and don't have access to a good double bass teacher, you might just get a cheap bass guitar and figure out, where the notes are, (open strings, intervals, positions, ear training, playing melodies and basslines to simple songs), and then meet a qualified teacher later, to teach you, how to apply, what you already know to the double bass.
If you already know where the notes are and what you want to play, you can focus on posture, sound production and basic technique and squeeze much more out of every single lesson, even if only every couple of weeks with a teacher on person.

 

[Les Fret]

As I've stated before, each change from the overwhelmingly recommended path of getting a teacher and using Simandl contains a risk.

That's a bit exaggerated; not using Simandl is a risk. I know you are a Simandl fanboy. You make that very clear in every post on these kind of subjects.

 

[Steve Freides]

If you want to learn to play the double bass and need to learn fingerboard geometry first and don't have access to a good double bass teacher, you might just get a cheap bass guitar and figure out, where the notes are, (open strings, intervals, positions, ear training, playing melodies and basslines to simple songs), and then meet a qualified teacher later, to teach you, how to apply, what you already know to the double bass.
If you already know where the notes are and what you want to play, you can focus on posture, sound production and basic technique and squeeze much more out of every single lesson, even if only every couple of weeks with a teacher on person.

We've lost track of the first post in this thread - the person asking says he's been playing EB for a long time, so I think we can assume he's in the position you describe and is just making the transition to upright.

-S-

 

[damonsmith]

That's a bit exaggerated; not using Simandl is a risk. I know you are a Simandl fanboy. You make that very clear in every post on these kind of subjects.

If another method had a more proven track record, I wouldn't phrase it that way. I don't like Simandl more or less than anyone, I just think it is a waste of time trying to find a way around it when it clearly works. I am actually for getting your hands on all the methods and getting a working understanding of all of them.

 

[Steve Freides]

I don't like Simandl more or less than anyone, I just think it is a waste of time trying to find a way around it when it clearly works.

FWIW, I like it, but typically I don't roll it out until a student has gotten into about the third book of the ABC's series - and then, I think there are some nice studies. There's a book called My First Simandl that I like, and after that, the good, old-fashioned thing itself.

-S-