@The Diaper Geni - Thanks, but here's the woman you really love. At least 75% of everything I know about music (including 100% of what was in the post you quoted), I learned from her... I'm just paying it forward. 
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Metronomes and Time/Rhythm Awareness
- Thread starter jallenbass
- Start date
(Edited for clarity)
As mentioned, the pattern I notice in these "I don't think metronomes help my time" statements is that the poster will write something to contradict that, almost immediately after he says it. The logic is so circular, that it doesn't even make any sense to say it at all.
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I'm trying to understand what you wrote but I'm not there yet. Could you go into a little more detail?
A Metronome is like a Mirror, it simply reflects what is there. It won't make you more stylish (at first), but can make you look less-bad. Over time you learn to see more detail, and progressively refine your image.
The metronome work will gradually remove the "always" part of that statement. Using the metronome for exercises is about as much fun as mowing a giant flat square lawn, but it pays you back for the tedium.
True, but much depends on whether the definition of fun used involves around doing the work itself, or the satisfaction of having gotten the work done. A mental paradigm shift from the former (short term fun) to the latter (long term fun) can work wonders for any musician's overall musicianship. Approach 'nome practice with the second mindset, and it's a beautiful form of karmic meditation. Speaking of which, it's time to meditate.
As someone once said...the metronome is your friend.
For swing and pushing the pocket, it is still valuable to use the metronome and play around the tick. The idea that metronomes ruin pocket and swing is not accurate. IMO it's learning to swing with he metronome that really develops fine timing.
I've repeated numerous times.
The metronome is the best helper to internalize a subdivision, a motif, a phrase, a riff, a fill, etc...
I don't internalize some abstract timing.
I do internalize a phrase, riff, passage at this or that particular tempo.
With the metronome, I properly situate my "phrase"/music(al) unit within the measure/bar, like decorating my room with the furniture.
Here is more, over a long period of time, I've noticed one very important thing.
Yes, a lot of musicians can play (and are playing) without the adjuster - the metronome/click, and even are PROUD of it, but...
As soon as you slow down their recorded material, I ALWAYS find various size rhythmic variations due to their "snobby" attitude towards the metronome.
And usually, their answer is, "Hey, man, who cares about those tiny imperfections?".
I do care, and recommend for any musician (especially a bass player) to start using the "adjuster"(the metronome) for any rhythmic/groove/swing based music.
But...
It's all about the musician's vision and desire.
If that musician is "happy" with the articulation of the bass-line where I see rhythmic imperfections - there is NOTHING to argue about, there is NO need to persuade, and/or fight about.
And there is NO need whatsoever try to discuss the use of the metronome with a great (a complete) bass player - Jeff Berlin.
It's just stupid...
Thanks for the advice. What I hear you saying is that I have not yet worked on swing feel with a metronome on 2 and 4. However, I've spent a lot of time on that over many years and what you hear is the result. I know that my swing feel is not great. I have heard better players than me that don't have a great swing feel either. I'm OK with that and am satisfied with keeping steady time. My colleagues tell me this as well.
Groove Master
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- Apr 22, 2011
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A metronome is a tool!
If you don't know how to use it then learn how to !!!
If you don't know how to use it then learn how to !!!
True, but much depends on whether the definition of fun used involves around doing the work itself, or the satisfaction of having gotten the work done. A mental paradigm shift from the former (short term fun) to the latter (long term fun) can work wonders for any musician's overall musicianship. Approach 'nome practice with the second mindset, and it's a beautiful form of karmic meditation. Speaking of which, it's time to meditate.
too many bass player think music should always be fun like being on stage. It isn't the reallity and you won't be better if you don't do real practice.
N.B. I'd like to compare some of our TB members' expressions, "I've never used the metronome, and I don't need it", "I have a perfect sense of timing; therefore, the metronome is useless", etc...
to
"I feel OK; therefore, I don't need to check my blood pressure, my cholesterol level, etc...",
UNTIL that person gets a heart attack or a stroke, or some strange and abnormal cell growth...
In short.
Any claims from even the Great musicians, "Don't use the metronome", I (only me) will greet with a HUGE skepticism, and humor.
Any claims even from Great Bass players, "That ANYBODY (the very fresh beginner musician) will have perfect timing" could cause only a sarcastic remark from me.
If you play any rhythmic music - SWING, Pop, Soul, Funk, etc... - always check with the metronome.
(No need to stupidly argue if it's a "tool" or a "helper", or an "adjuster", etc...)
P.S. I agree with the Great musician that sometimes on stage we cannot hear some nuances due to that "imperfect" environment.
Currently, I'm listening to a new album of a (but no big names, no "me, me, me" attitude) duet - Till Bronner and Dieter Ilg (double bass).
No drums.
P.S. Please, don't you worry about Dieter Ilg as a Double Bass jazz player!
Here is an original recording.
It will/it should start somewhere around the middle (I know TB members are very busy - no time to listen).
And here is a video with the same recording where a drummer added a drum cover.
It should start at the same time.
My question.
If there no, more or less, close to perfect timing on that record, how could that drummer play along with the original recording?
to
"I feel OK; therefore, I don't need to check my blood pressure, my cholesterol level, etc...",
UNTIL that person gets a heart attack or a stroke, or some strange and abnormal cell growth...
In short.
Any claims from even the Great musicians, "Don't use the metronome", I (only me) will greet with a HUGE skepticism, and humor.
Any claims even from Great Bass players, "That ANYBODY (the very fresh beginner musician) will have perfect timing" could cause only a sarcastic remark from me.
If you play any rhythmic music - SWING, Pop, Soul, Funk, etc... - always check with the metronome.
(No need to stupidly argue if it's a "tool" or a "helper", or an "adjuster", etc...)
P.S. I agree with the Great musician that sometimes on stage we cannot hear some nuances due to that "imperfect" environment.
Currently, I'm listening to a new album of a (but no big names, no "me, me, me" attitude) duet - Till Bronner and Dieter Ilg (double bass).
No drums.
P.S. Please, don't you worry about Dieter Ilg as a Double Bass jazz player!
Here is an original recording.
It will/it should start somewhere around the middle (I know TB members are very busy - no time to listen).
And here is a video with the same recording where a drummer added a drum cover.
It should start at the same time.
My question.
If there no, more or less, close to perfect timing on that record, how could that drummer play along with the original recording?
Well that's just a matter of listening and following the timing
which you can practice with a metronome
which you can practice with a metronome
You don't need to minimize your correct statement.
It's not that "Ask (but very carefully) a Pro" forum.
P.S. Here is an interesting thing. I've read (and stupidly participated) in numerous discussions of one of the Greatest names in the Bass Guitar history forum threads.
My conclusion.
After reading volumes of emotional comments about music at that "Ask a Pro" forum, I've found out that there was no musical knowledge information whatsoever(!) with one exception.
The Great bass player recommended to our TB member, while playing a quarter note walking bass line in the F7 to Bb chord progression,
NOT to play note D on Beat 4 with F7 when the next chord is Bb.
Let's see.
Bb major chord - Bb D F.
In short.
We've received a secret piece of information NOT to play D note - the Bb Chord note - on Beat 4 with the F7 chord.
DAAAAAAA!
Even Malcolm and his C major scale Box provide more useful information to a beginner bass player.
Does it mean that you are among those, "I don't use and I don't need the metronome" TB members?
Nope. I am a strong advocate for practicing with a metronome. But I already outlined my reasoning in another thread which is why I made my comment about redundancy here.
