Mexican or American made???

[Jim Carr]

...The standard Mexican P and J basses are poorly set up and the deluxe active Jazz that I had was a mess from top to bottom. Maybe just a bit of bad luck w/ those, but...

Perhaps I am being Dr. Obvious again, but I am not certain that one can assign responsibility for the set-up to anyone but the owner or perhaps a seller/vendor. The builder may ship a good set-up, but 6 months of sitting in a warehouse and store may undo that. Fender could do better, but let's be realistic about how little effort most vendors make in this area.

Nothing against Mexico, but I'm not impressed w/ their Fender products... The difference between MIM and MIA/CIJ imho is that your MIA/CIJ will get better as as it ages

Oh but it seems maybe you do have something against them. You seem to believe they can't or won't make good basses. Whether or not you are right, here is my question:

Why buy several MIM basses to find this out? Can't you play an instrument before you purchase it? And if not, can't you order from a seller with a reasonable return policy?

This applies to a bass made anywhere, not just Mexico, IMHO.

I have seen the quality of Fender basses change over the years, starting with the days when Leo sold Fender to CBS. You want to see poor quality, HA! Try most 1979 Fender products.

In case you have not had the chance, I recommend you play the MIM 50s, 60s, and 70s Classics and the Road Worn P & J. As one who has been observing and playing Fender basses for longer than most, I can assure you the quality of basses built by "them" is quite high for the the price.

Remember, we are talking about mass produced goods here. There is no cultural secret or DNA component to excellent worker training and ISO QC. An American company manufacturing "overseas" may do it well or not, but that has nothing to do with the nationality or ethnicity of those who do the work. I have always chuckled when someone asks, "Do you their Mexicans in Ensenada build better Fender basses than our Mexicans in Corona?"

 

[bstringkyle]

I have 2 Mexican Jazz basses. one 4 string and one 5 string, They are both very solid, great playing basses. The 4 string is a 92 and is upgraded with 70's Vintage pickups and control plate, Badass II Bridge, and schaller tuners. Great passive bass.
The 5 string is a 04. It is upgraded with sd basslines, Audere JZ3 Preamp, and a Badass V Bridge. awesome bass.

Overall I think that the MIM are great bang for the buck basses. Very solid. They are so easy to modify.

Happy hunting
Kyle

 

[fettbass]

Perhaps I am being Dr. Obvious again, but I am not certain that one can assign responsibility for the set-up to anyone but the owner or perhaps a seller/vendor. The builder may ship a good set-up, but 6 months of sitting in a warehouse and store may undo that. Fender could do better, but let's be realistic about how little effort most vendors make in this area.



Oh but it seems maybe you do have something against them. You seem to believe they can't or won't make good basses. Whether or not you are right, here is my question:

Why buy several MIM basses to find this out? Can't you play an instrument before you purchase it? And if not, can't you order from a seller with a reasonable return policy?

This applies to a bass made anywhere, not just Mexico, IMHO.

I have seen the quality of Fender basses change over the years, starting with the days when Leo sold Fender to CBS. You want to see poor quality, HA! Try most 1979 Fender products.

In case you have not had the chance, I recommend you play the MIM 50s, 60s, and 70s Classics and the Road Worn P & J. As one who has been observing and playing Fender basses for longer than most, I can assure you the quality of basses built by "them" is quite high for the the price.

Remember, we are talking about mass produced goods here. There is no cultural secret or DNA component to excellent worker training and ISO QC. An American company manufacturing "overseas" may do it well or not, but that has nothing to do with the nationality or ethnicity of those who do the work. I have always chuckled when someone asks, "Do you their Mexicans in Ensenada build better Fender basses than our Mexicans in Corona?"

I was always under the impression that American made fenders served as their prestige line, representing the high end of what the company offers. Consequently, I thought the workers in American Fender plants were given more time, and set different guidelines etc, when building a guitar in order to ensure a higher, or at least more consistent level of quality when compared to their overseas or south of the border counterparts. Is this untrue?

 

[bassplayeroreo]

Yep it's a mexican.

 

[bassplayeroreo]

MIM is the new MIJ

Nahhhh dude you can't beat MIJ... That's why when finally realized how good the MIJs are (as good as MIAs in my opinion) they made the MIJs cost almost as much as the MIAs. Mexicans though are getting better and better each year though and soon enough they just might be the new MIJs and to get cheap Fenders will start coming from Iceland...

 

[RTL]

My American Standard P5 was made by Mexicans... Does that make it a hybrid?

Honestly, though, I know I'm not the only one here who is tired of all the generalizations.. I mean, sure, "Cheap Mexican Labor", as someone put it, has produced some turds, but that's not to say they're all like that. That would be like saying "All Americans are fat." A funny prospect for sure, but untrue.

BTW, someone should do something about Lakland. All this "Cheap Indonesian Labor" is making some companies look bad

 

[Pilgrim]

MIM basses are cheap for a reason. Cheap electronics, cheap fittings make for a cheap sounding and playing guitar. Not to mention cheap Mexican labor.

Maybe you think so.

Maybe I don't.

I'm very tired of people posting and praising or condemning ALL instruments in a class like MIM. Anyone who knows Fenders knows that they're mass produced, and some of them sound better than others regardless of whether they're MIM, MIA or MIJ. It's very clear to me from numerous reports that a good MIM sounds a lot better than an average-to-poor MIA. Does a really good MIA sound better than a really good MIM? I can't say, but I wouldn't pay $1000 for the difference in any case.

My 2000 MIM J sounds every bit as good as any other J I've heard...and it's stock as a rock, down to still having the original strings.

 

[JPrinos]

I never knew what MIM amd MIA stood for until I read this thread.....Thanks!

Actually I never minded the MIM fenders, it's the MIA fenders that I almost never find one I think to be worth it.

 

[groovenut57]

MIM basses are cheap for a reason. Cheap electronics, cheap fittings make for a cheap sounding and playing guitar. Not to mention cheap Mexican labor.

Does "cheap Mexican labor" mean "cheap quality"? I don't think so. The fact the labor is cheap down there is only a reflection of their standard of living, not of the quality of their work.

I happen to think these Mexican Fenders are solid values for the money. My 2006 P bass has been a real workhorse for the last few years for my son, who's played in four different high school jazz bands, not to mention the fact it hardly needed any setup straight out of the box.

 

[Sparkdog]

09 mexs are great playin basses.. esp the maple boarded lake placid ones..
tbh i dont have much time for USA fenders asi find them heavily overpriced (not that id turn away a custom shop) get the mex.. great bass and u can mod the hell out of it!!

True dat...

This has been discussed to death at TB, but the new '09 Fender Standards are indeed different than any of the Mexican made Standards that came before.

They have new finishes available and the necks have a nice tint to them that looks aged, but there are more significant changes too.

-You can get a maple board now...BIG deal for me since that's all I play these days. The necks also have REALLY nice nut and fretwork. My new P has the best feeling neck I've played in a long time.

-The bridge and tuners are nice and solid, nothing fancy, but the tuners are smooth and stay in tune, and the bridge doesn't rattle or do anything it shouldn't.

-My P has a great pickup. I bought it fully expecting to change out the pickup and it simply isn't necessary. The stock PUP is not just adequate, it sounds great.

-I liked the P so well (mine is Lake Placid Blue and gorgeous) that I bought a Jazz too. Mine is Candy Apple Red. I have to say that the J pups are not as good as the P. Those are "adequate" and frankly are much better than I expected, but I will be changing those out for a set of DiMarzio model J's shortly.

-You can find these basses in decent weights. My P is exactly 9 pounds and the J is a few ounces under 9. I won't buy anything heavier than 9 so that was a biggie for me too.

When I bought these 2 basses I also owned an MIA Precision and a Lakland DJ4. I was so impressed with the mexi's that I ended up selling both those basses and putting a sizable chunk of money against my overworked credit card bill. Some people will think that's crazy, but I am really trying to simplify my musical life and I just don't need more than a good P with flats and a good J with rounds.

I preferred the Standards so they stayed.

Now, what hasn't changed with MIM Fenders (and to be honest I think the same is true of MIA's) is that the QA is hit and miss. I ordered my P online and it was utterly perfect.

I went through 3 J basses before I got one that was up to my standards, so you definitely have to shop around.

There's my 2 centavos.

 

[b_carville]

I got drunk with a local Fender sales rep(whose name I won't mention) once.After several Irish whiskies he said "Look the damn things are made in America by Mexicans and made in Mexico by Mexicans!".

He may have been kidding but he's got a point.

 

[jmain]

Nahhhh dude you can't beat MIJ... That's why when finally realized how good the MIJs are (as good as MIAs in my opinion) they made the MIJs cost almost as much as the MIAs. Mexicans though are getting better and better each year though and soon enough they just might be the new MIJs and to get cheap Fenders will start coming from Iceland...

Not disputing MIJs are good, b/c I played one for over 10 years. Just high-larious that everyone thought they were crap back in '80s. Just sayin'.

 

[smcd]

Maybe you think so.

Maybe I don't.

I'm very tired of people posting and praising or condemning ALL instruments in a class like MIM. Anyone who knows Fenders knows that they're mass produced, and some of them sound better than others regardless of whether they're MIM, MIA or MIJ. It's very clear to me from numerous reports that a good MIM sounds a lot better than an average-to-poor MIA. Does a really good MIA sound better than a really good MIM? I can't say, but I wouldn't pay $1000 for the difference in any case.

My 2000 MIM J sounds every bit as good as any other J I've heard...and it's stock as a rock, down to still having the original strings.

I don't think so. I know so. I've played many MIM Fenders, and without exception they're cheaply made. Not "inexpensive". Cheap. And all the negative connotations that go along with that.

These are designed and manufactured as budget instruments. The quality of parts and manufacture has been below what I consider to be reasonable standards for what I would call a good instrument.



This pretty much sums up what most MIM owners do:

I have 2 Mexican Jazz basses. one 4 string and one 5 string, They are both very solid, great playing basses. The 4 string is a 92 and is upgraded with 70's Vintage pickups and control plate, Badass II Bridge, and schaller tuners. Great passive bass.
The 5 string is a 04. It is upgraded with sd basslines, Audere JZ3 Preamp, and a Badass V Bridge. awesome bass.

Overall I think that the MIM are great bang for the buck basses. Very solid. They are so easy to modify.

Happy hunting
Kyle

It's like the "stone soup" parable. You didn't buy a "great" bass. You bought a POS, change the electronics and all the fittings, and then you've got a "great" bass. Problem is that it can't be called a MIM bass after that.

 

[smcd]

Does "cheap Mexican labor" mean "cheap quality"? I don't think so. The fact the labor is cheap down there is only a reflection of their standard of living, not of the quality of their work.

I happen to think these Mexican Fenders are solid values for the money. My 2006 P bass has been a real workhorse for the last few years for my son, who's played in four different high school jazz bands, not to mention the fact it hardly needed any setup straight out of the box.

"Cheap Mexican labor" means that Fender is doing what a great many US corporations are doing - manufacturing in foreign countries with labor rates that are 1/8th what they are here to maximize profits. Which is a political comment that perhaps would be better posted in another forum.

But as far as "cheap quality", MIM's are cheap quality. Absolutely. They're designed to be that way. Low budget. And they play and sound that way.

 

[jmain]

There is a STOCK MIM Classic 50s P bass waiting in my living room right now. I could point you to other threads, or just let you know what I think after I give it a good whirl.

 

[nortonrider]

You bought a POS, change the electronics and all the fittings, and then you've got a "great" bass. Problem is that it can't be called a MIM bass after that.

Bah!
MY MIM Jazz Deluxe came STOCK with American electronics and Noiseless pickups in it. Which leads me to believe that you don't know what you're talking about.

I suggest you do a little bit of research before making such broad (wrong) statements.

 

[flea claypool]

Mex or Usa??

Both

 

[jmain]

My MIM 50s Classic Precision came in earlier and I didn't get a whole lot of time with it. But got enough to say that is one smokin' bass. Don't believe the hype.

I was gonna get one of the Standard Precision (arctic/maple), but landed this instead.

 

[RTL]

Mex or Usa??

Both

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I never get tired of seeing that bass!

 

[elgranluis]

Does "cheap Mexican labor" mean "cheap quality"? I don't think so. The fact the labor is cheap down there is only a reflection of their standard of living, not of the quality of their work.

I happen to think these Mexican Fenders are solid values for the money. My 2006 P bass has been a real workhorse for the last few years for my son, who's played in four different high school jazz bands, not to mention the fact it hardly needed any setup straight out of the box.

More of a reflection of exchange rate, really. That was the sole reason fender started production in japan in the first place, or anyplace for the matter.