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Double Bass Mic/Full Circle comparisons for live sound

#101
T-Bal said:
Careful with those rubber bands. THey do dry rot and break. I used to use them to keep my tuner ears from rattling before I got them fixed. I rekon the shockmount stuff is safer, stronger, longer lasting.
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Agreed. When I get around to getting some that is the preferred stuff. I wouldn't want to rely on that stuff for gigs. It did make some reasonable comedy though.


I tried the AKG D12E. Kind of a pig and very dark. Not so good with my bass. I thought the D112 sounded better but it's impossible to mount on the bass in any usefull way. I tried the Sennheiser 604. Yuck. Muddy with a bad attack.

Then I tried the Beta 57. Wow. Clear, clean and articulate. Way nicer than the Sennheiser 609. Chris is on the money with that one.

I'm still liking the mounting on the 609 better and am hoping the 409 or the 906 sounds at least as good as the Beta57 as I'd prefer that mounting to the through the strings Beta thing.

One last note. In trying out mics I put the Realist back on the bass. Wanted to see how it blended in with different mics in addition to the full circle. At lower volumes it really sounded nice with a mic on top. In some ways warmer than the FC with less "Piezoness" in the top end. At lower volumes I really prefer it to the FC when mixed with a mic.

In the end it can't keep up with the FC and a mic when the volumes go up. Just gets rumbly and boomy.

I'm gonna leave in on for awhile all the same.

Still hunting....
 
#102
I've been kind of hedging between the AMT and Beta 57, using the Beta but not yet taking the AMT off the bass. Last night's concert sealed the deal - the Beta 57 stays, the AMT goes. The positive feedback (no pun intended) about the sound from way more experienced bass players with huge ears is kind of hard to ignore. It's been an interesting experiment to say the least!
 
#103
More nerd stuff. I gave the sound clips of the different sennheisers to a friend. He sent this analysis of their frequency response to me today. Thought it was interesting.

409: From left to right 20Hz to 20KHz, A 20 Db low shelf from 10 Hz to 40 Hz, then another 20 Db rise to 100 Hz. A I very pronounced peak @ 100 Hz, biggest freq. of the bunch, then 9-10 Dbs less peaks @ around 200 Hz, and 400 Hz probably the harmonic series for 100 Hz, One freq. is jumping out around 750-800 Hz that is as big as the 100 Hz hump then flat to 1.5 KHz 20 Db drop just at that freq., then a gradual high roll off to it looks like 7.5 KHz, then nothing.

609 Black: From left to right 20Hz to 20KHz, Same low shelf as the 409 peak at 100 Hz, then a gradual rolloff 7.5 KHz again I bet they were using a high shelf cause nothing is registering after 7.5 KHz.

609 Silver: From left to right 20Hz to 20KHz, same curve as the above 2 from left till about 5KHz then a 10 Db jump, weird, then nothing after 7.5 KHz.

906 Boost: From left to right 20Hz to 20KHz, same curve from the left, then the 750-800 Hz peak is back, then again gradual rolloff till 7.5 KHz.

906 Flat: From left to right 20Hz to 20KHz, curves are identical visually. but the flat curve is flatter, the boosted curve is boosted.

906 Rolloff: From left to right 20Hz to 20KHz, curve is again identical visually, but a freq. is rolled off somewhere. I checked the Sennheiser website, the rolloff has 3 filters, it didn't say which freq. however.

I hope this helps, I'd go for the 906 if I had to make a choice.

I personally like the 409 eq bumps and am curious to find one and try it out. The 906 is the most well behaved of the bunch.

More later...
 
#104
Finally played a gig with the Sennheiser 609. Very respectable sound. Its not as accurate as the AMT but I couldn't use the AMT in the venue I played tonight so all in all this $100 mic performed well. It's really satisfying to hear the sound of my bass coming through rather than just the pickup.

Part way through the 2nd set my Woods started making weird popping sounds so I turned it off and ran the full circle mixed with the 609 by the Raven preamp direct into the PA. Sounded better than with the amp. Great actually.

I may just leave the amp in the truck next time and see what happens.
 
#106
Okay, diregard the 421 thing, toad posted a photo on another thread, question answered. However, I tried rigging my 58 to my bass but I just wasnt getting a lot of gain. The 58 ran into the mic input on my Little MarkII head, and it wasnt doin much. Am I in need of a Preamp, or am I missing something? Thanks for any help.
 
#109
Hey gang, I'm getting in on this a little late but I dug up some clips that might be pertinent.

"Marmaduke" was recorded with an ATM35 in an isolation booth in a home studio (Spiro mittels, since inquiring minds usually want to know).

"LiveATM35Iris" was recorded with an ATM35 direct into the board at a live gig (a jam session, actually, but it was recorded onto multitrack every week). In both cases, the ATM35 is clipped to the treble side bridge adjuster and pointed at the top of the bass directly in between the bridge feet, maybe a half-inch off the table.

"LiveSM57Blackbird" was recorded in the same live setting with an SM57 on a stand and positioned almost exactly where the ATM was pointing (I sit, so the bass doesn't move and a mic stand works fine). Oh yes, and both of the live cuts are with Animas, same bass as the studio version.

Clips are here: www.streamload.com/johono5

Just click on the "mic comparison" folder and click "play" for whichever file you want to hear. (The same inquiring minds are welcome to check out the "string comparison" folder as well.)
I think the SM57 compares very favorably with the ATM35, and actually sounds better than the live ATM35 clip. But in that case, the engineer said he "accidentally" rolled off a lot of the high frequencies, so it may not be totally fair...
 
#111
univac jr. said:
You, your bass, and the animas sound great! Nice solo on Blackbird. Is the SM 57 on the stand for blackbird a beta?
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Thanks! The mic was not a beta; it was just a tired old SM57. I dig the sound of it, but of course it's hard to tell how much bleed is happening on that recording (which I imagine would be one of the problems with using a mic like this onstage to go into your amp; I've often had the experience of standing in front of a stage before a band plays and hearing every conversation coming through the PA from the one SM57 or 58 sititng in the middle of the stage and turned up a little too hot).
 
#113
Uncleturd said:
I personally like the 409 eq bumps and am curious to find one and try it out. The 906 is the most well behaved of the bunch.

More later...
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Now is later. I got the Sennheiser 409. It's really great. It's a bit more of a signature sound than the Beta 57 but it matches up with the Cleveland really well. Big poofy sound of the Cleveland with Animas comes through loud and clear. Two gigs this weekend and another report coming.
 
#114
I tried out the beta57 today and was fairly impressed, but have no other high-end mic experience to compare it to. I liked the tone, but wanted something a little warmer, tighter, and with a little less air, even with finding a "sweet-spot" with some trial and error. I only wish I had an AMT to A/B.

CHRIS-

Did you find the tone comparable to the descriptors I used when you used the JBL EON? I use the JBL with the fishman full circle and plat. eq preamp. I ordered a FOCUS r2 today and am really hoping this will help the tone of the mic.

On another note, I highly reccomend to all full circle users to buy the plat pro eq. I do not like the tone of the pu without it.
 
#115
"I liked the tone, but wanted something a little warmer, tighter, and with a little less air..."

Then you might like the SM58. But honestly, I don't like any of the mics alone for amplification purposes above a whisper. It's all about the mix.

True story: Every morning during the Aebersold camps, faculty rhythm sections play with the horn sections from student combos. I'm paired with guitarist Dave Stryker (not a wallflower volumewise) and Steve Barnes, who is one fo the tastiest drummers around, especially volume wise, so I'm happy using the beta 57 & FC. First day goes great - the sound of the bass was great, and the band sounded full. Second day, the bass sounds okay by itself, but gets completely buried when the other instruments come in. I keep messing with the controls on the Focus, and it gets a little better, but not much. I stayed buried.

Only after the hour was up did I realize that the little "on/off" switch on my Planet Waves cable running to the FC had been accidentally set to the "off" position, and there it had stayed during the entire session. So I was basically playing acoustically plus the mic signal in a small room with 4 horns. I didn't hear myself most of the time as a presence of equal weight. Next day, I flip the little switch on the cable, and badda bing, I'm right there in the mix where I should be. The mic provides the air, the pickup provides the punch. Either alone is lacking, IMO.

When I used the JBL EON, that was in a quartet rehearsal, and it did fine, but there wasn't much volume from the drums on that rehearsal, and the other instruments were relatively quiet as well (no piano or guitar).
 
#118
UnderTurd said:
Now is later. I got the Sennheiser 409. It's really great. It's a bit more of a signature sound than the Beta 57 but it matches up with the Cleveland really well. Big poofy sound of the Cleveland with Animas comes through loud and clear. Two gigs this weekend and another report coming.
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Yea. This Sennheiser 409 is my guy. Sounds more like my bass than the AMT, gets way more volume before feedback than the AMT ever could. No pesky preamps and sh-t cables. I could use it without a pickup on gigs and be pretty happy. It may not be everyone's cuppa as it does have it's own thing, so try before you buy. I've been doing some demo sessions with a fellow using this mic and if they ever become available for me to use I'll post them.

When I get some downtime between gigs I'll send it to Chris for him to record some real bass playing and to post in comparison with the rest of his stuff so it can be evaluated in a more controlled fashion.

Now I wish I never modified the AMT. I'll never be able to sell it.
 
#119
I recorded this at AJC last fall - the mic was a Neumann KM185 mounted in the tailpiece (see pic, and also threads passim). The bass player was Esperanza Spalding, and although you can see from the pic that the bass also was fitted with a Full Circle, the amp which it was plugged into was not working, and so she was playing totally acoustic (the mic going into my recorder).

Alone Together (Solo & 4s)

- Wil
 

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