Michael Cera's Bass

[P-oddz]

You don't get the point, and probably never will. You have no idea what my musical background is.

What is your point?

If you are stating that I don't have any idea what your musical background is, therefore I cannot make assumptions, aren't you doing exactly that by taking on his musical background and assuming his talent level vs. his celebrity?

No need to get defensive, man. I was just stating what has to be the underlying point here. If you are ripping on him for his band status, doesn't it

A.) have to come from a place of jealousy, or
B.) come from a place of fact?

And by deduction, if you don't know all the facts - then what is one supposed to surmise?

Tell me how I don't get it?

 

[M0ses]

Here are the facts.

Cera hasn't been playing long.
There are a million bass players better than Cera.
The names already in this band are big enough to attract the top level of players.
Cera got it the spot.
Therefore, he got the spot based on something other than skill.

Are you REALLY trying to tell us that that something else ISN'T his celebrity status??

If so, give me a break. It's a good guess, and much more likely than anything you can come up with.

 

[P-oddz]

Here are the facts.

Cera hasn't been playing long.
There are a million bass players better than Cera.
The names already in this band are big enough to attract the top level of players.
Cera got it the spot.
Therefore, he got the spot based on something other than skill.

Are you REALLY trying to tell us that that something else ISN'T his celebrity status??

If so, give me a break. It's a good guess, and much more likely than anything you can come up with.

Again, this seems mostly projection to me.

First off, do you know personally know how long Cera has played guitar/bass? Do you personally know his musical background/history? Have you shared jam time with him to assess his skill level and/or "fire" for music (as a term thrown out before).

And for an example of another reason besides celebrity that landed him the gig, go like this (from my own personal history): The band I'm in for over 4 years now.

The guys were all accomplished (again this word is purely subjective) musicians before we started as a band. They had a lot of musical experience under their belts. I messed around on guitar and half-played bass for a couple of years prior (maybe not much skill, but much passion). They could've had anyone come play for them, but they chose me. I was great friends with the drummer, and I got along with the rest of the guys swimmingly.

Now in this situation, I wasn't brought on board because of my extreme good looks, or because of my own (or lack thereof) personal wealth. I was brought on because I was a cool guy who really wanted to get an opportunity to play music with some guys who were a lot better than me. They liked me, and they liked that I showed a passion to be part of the band. Sometimes the reason bands form is not for the level of skill, but for the relationships shared, and the potential therein (I know this sounds like a touchy-feely moment, but it's true).

 

[TripleDouble]

Keanu's first band ended up kicking major ass once Rufus showed him the ropes. Give him time.

 

[The Bass Clef]

Here are the facts.

Cera hasn't been playing long.
There are a million bass players better than Cera.
The names already in this band are big enough to attract the top level of players.
Cera got it the spot.
Therefore, he got the spot based on something other than skill.

Are you REALLY trying to tell us that that something else ISN'T his celebrity status??

If so, give me a break. It's a good guess, and much more likely than anything you can come up with.

Well said. Thanks, that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking too, but you said it even better than I was going to.

 

[manbearpig97]

Accidental troll is accidental.

 

[Bass Hole]

You don't get the point, and probably never will. You have no idea what my musical background is.

I'm trying not to read into that, but can't stop myself.

Sometimes getting a gig isn't based on skill. If you can play at all and have a van, you can get in a lot of bands. I've picked people who weren't the most skilled players in auditions, but they had a stage presentation that made up for their other issues. We hired one particular drummer because his uncle owned a liquor store.

I really don't see it as "some punk kid actor took a spot from a REAL musician" like you are coming off... music is less about competing AGAINST other musicians as it is about trying to do YOUR thing as well as you can. The public decides if your best is enough to win their appeal, but there's room for more than one band... there's no limit to how many bands can be popular at any given time. Some would say a "real" musician isn't doing it for the approval of others, but for the betterment of himself in his/her own eyes.
Or not.

 

[alkanetexe]

So do I get to be Michael Cera club member #1?

 

[The Bass Clef]

Let me take this one piece-by-piece..

I'm trying not to read into that, but can't stop myself.

Than you are using an assumption that you have zero knowledge of (my musical career/history) to base your argument. While I am using the same facts that M0ses posted earlier today in my argument. I'm not forcing you to take my side, but I do maintain that based on those facts, the most logical line of thinking is that MC wasn't chosen for his skills, but for his popularity and celebrity.

Sometimes getting a gig isn't based on skill.

No, not for a gig at the bar down the street, but for the BIG stage it absolutely should be based on skill and artistry - not money, popularity, power, or coolness. This acceptance of the mediocre in the mainstream hurts the arts.

If you can play at all and have a van, you can get in a lot of bands.

You think Aerosmith would give you a gig because you have a van? How about Green Day? We are talking about touring professional bands here, not your myspace friends.

I've picked people who weren't the most skilled players in auditions, but they had a stage presentation that made up for their other issues. We hired one particular drummer because his uncle owned a liquor store.

Again, you are comparing a "garage band" or whatever with a professional touring band here. Can you not see a difference in qualifications? How many pros do you think hold auditions and say, "Well, that guy was really the most amazing guy we've had yet.. but homie over there's Dad has a liquor store!". If that's how seriously you take music and yourself, well...

I really don't see it as "some punk kid actor took a spot from a REAL musician" like you are coming off...

That's fine if you don't agree, but yes, that is how I'm coming off because that's what I (and at least a few other perceptive people here) think.

music is less about competing AGAINST other musicians as it is about trying to do YOUR thing as well as you can.

Not in the Majors man, the industry is competitve as all hell. And if your chops aren't there, you'll get replaced by the record label before the recording even starts. Well.. unless you're an actor.

The public decides if your best is enough to win their appeal, but there's room for more than one band... there's no limit to how many bands can be popular at any given time.

Yes, the public decides, but the public already likes MC because of his acting career so therefore they will be led to like his playing too - and most without even realizing it. Simple marketing.

And not everyone can be famous. There isn't room for every band. Nor should there be. There are over 6 billion people on this planet so there is a finite # of bands that can be on the radio/mainstream for any given genre. The mainstream should be the people that care enough to hone their skills and their artisty to the highest levels. Maybe MC cares about that too, but his skills aren't there yet, just his name.

Some would say a "real" musician isn't doing it for the approval of others, but for the betterment of himself in his/her own eyes.
Or not.

So you think his band picked him so he could work on his own betterment now? Definitely not because he's a super popular actor, right? I play music for my own fufillment, but I'm also not touring or trying to put food on the table with it. If I was, I would expect to get fired if my skills weren't up to par.

 

[manbearpig97]

thebrain, are you serious? Even after you were told about his musical background you've said he didn't have one before scott pilgrim. You just completely ignored it. Just because he's famous doesnt make him a bad musician.

 

[thesteve]

On the flipside, it looks like Mister Heavenly's tour is mostly all ages venues, bars, HOB stops...not like they're doing the arena circuit or anything. Maybe that makes MC perfect, haha. They are practically doing a tour of "gigs down the street".

 

[The Bass Clef]

thebrain, are you serious? Even after you were told about his musical background you've said he didn't have one before scott pilgrim. You just completely ignored it. Just because he's famous doesnt make him a bad musician.

I did not say he didn't have a musical background (albeit very basic). I have been talking baout his bass playing background the entire time. I have been playing piano since I was 6, but when I picked up bass at 16, besides knowing what the major scale was and that the black keys were sharps/flats, it didn't help me much to be good on bass. so it doesn't matter that he may have played guitar for a couple years 1st, you should know that the technique and the way you think about playing bass is totally different.

 

[The Bass Clef]

You guys are stuck on repeat so let's drop it. Realize that htere are people in the world that see it differently than you and accept it. I have. I don't care that you guys might like that noise.

 

[manbearpig97]

You obviously haven't.

 

[Pearldiver]

Taken in this context, it's like having to overhear "That drunk guy" on his cell phone.

He and Keanu should start a band with 2 awful bass players, maybe they would make one decent one together. I like them both as actors though.

I didn't know I was making a case for it, but as a matter of fact, I saw Dogstar play at the Doheny Days Rock Festival back in ~'98 and he unknowingly played with his E string about a 1/2 step out of tune. He couldn't separate his fingers on his left hand and played with one finger on his right too (which I like to call the "hook and hoof" technique).

Michael Cera.. well he's been playing for all of well.. since they shot the movie earlier this year, but now he's touring as a "pro". I like music that's played by musicians personally.

You must really love Michael Cera man.

My 10 year old niece can play a few songs on bass too, but it doesn't mean she's a musician. you guys should start a Michael Cera club.

Well I watched Keanu with my own eyes so that's as good as it gets for facts as far as I'm concerned. Nothing is quite like seeing him in person. For Cera, he played guitar on some of the soundtrack on Juno. That to me is about the same caliber musicianship as such hits like "Mary Had a Little Lamb" and "I'm a Little Teacup". I'm not even saying there weren't some decent songs on that movie, but the level of playing is as low as it gets IMO. As far as I know he never played bass before Scott Pilgrim and I was talking about bass. I'm baseing my opinions on the music I've heard from these actors and I'm not impressed. What facts of mine were bad?

So if evidence is what we are talking here, I've given mine. Where is your guys' that he played bass before Scott Pilgrim?

No, I'm saying MC played some really, really easy stuff on guitar and that's the extent of his musical background as far as any of us have pointed out. People were trying to use the point that he plays other instruments as a reason for him being good at bass and I just don't see it. And I'm saying that he's a noob on bass and is touring in a position that should be given to a more accomplished musician. You people need to stop drawing your own conclusions about me. You might as well say I grow wonderful apples now because I used to grow pears.

Looks like we are finally experiencing a lull this ultra-emotional war on whether Michael Cera is a good bass player or not. Sorry guys, I didn't mean to piss so many people off because they don't agree that he's no good or they feel like I'm jumping to conclusions about him so I'm sorry for that.

All I was doing was making a comparison of Cera's band choosing him of all people to play bass and Dogstar getting Keanu to play bass back in the 90's. Is it really about good music or just media exposure for a band that isn't all that good? I know what I think. Whether you agree or not makes no difference to me, but I say have fun listening to that noise if you like.

I don't mind that Cera is LEARNING bass, good for him. I do however think that Cera's abilities on bass is not why the band chose him. And before "Scott Pilgrim" he showed no interest in bass to the public. Maybe he did play before the movie was shot, I wouldn't know because I don't really give a s**t, but I haven't seen anything to say that he in fact did - like a picture, a recording, an article, etc... so that's why I assumed and still do that he has not been playing for very long. All I saw was a movie that came out this year in which he played a bassist and now, whaddya know, he's touring in a band - big surprise.

Can I blame Dogstar and Mister Heavenly for wanting to try to ride the coat tails of their bass players' acting careers to get more exposure for an otherwise (IMO) mediocre band? No. But do I think the music is worth listening to either? No.

When I said MC is a noob on bass (I still believe he is), I was pointing out that he's not an accomplished bass player and who would want to see an amateur touring the world? Apparently there are a lot of you who do which I wasn't expecting, but not me. I've already seen one actor/musakcian on tour and I know that if I see MC, it won't be while he's on stage. That's all. Again, sorry if my honest feelings about him set off such a flame war, but even though many made good arguments, I still think he, Keanu, and both their bands suck. Just my opinion, but you guys have to admit.. if I had said how good he was, no one would want any explainations or evidence why. It's only when I say they aren't good.

So apparently you only have to back up your opinion on this site if you don't like something. Lolz.

A supergroup that I never heard of until they got Michael was my point. I know a few of the guys have been in big bands like Modest Mouse, but even that group isn't that big (but a lot better IMO). They are all indie guys no? I think all indie bands are suffering right now putting food on the table with the scraps they make playing live (since no one is selling albums) and that's where MC comes in. Like I said I can't blame them, but it doesn't make for good music IMO. "A band is only as strong as it's weakest link."

I don't think whether a band's bass player is amatuer or not - unless he's known for something totally different. Then I have to wonder what the fuss is all about. As far as I can tell, it's not about his bass playing, it's that a super popular actor kid is in a band now and that's hip.

You could be right. I thought pretty much everybody in the music industry except Ditty Dirty Money and Justin Beeber were struggling compared to a decade ago. I hope you're right because I like a lot of indie music and hope things are getting better.



Definitely. Everybody starts somewhere and I was playing in a band after only playing for days or maybe weeks. I see lots of inexperienced bass players that are just starting out and props to them for learning a new skill. Props to MC for learning too, but I don't think he's nearly as good as the buzz creates and they're putting forth the image that he's a pro because he's playing in a band of (pretty) seasoned pros.

Now that was a clever comment. That made me lol.

I think just because you drive a car or might ride a snowboard doesn't mean you should race Nascar or compete in the X Games either. He's an amatuer IMO, maybe not yours but it doesn't bother me that you don't agree.

There are lots of nozzles that I don't think deserve to be where they're at and everybody has a few people that they think that about. But I'm not trying to change the world here or MC's musical career, it's just my opinion. You don't agree, so get over it. I don't care to play in MC's band, I don't like their music very much at all, it isn't my thing. I have no desire to play professionally even, I make better $$ doing what I do. I just love playing because it's fun for me. I'm sure MC has fun playing too, I just don't have fun listening to him. If you do then cool. Who cares?

Thanks guys, I appreciate that you can see what I'm saying. I don't hate the guy, I really think he's one of the coolest young actors in Hollywood.

The rest of you guys that don't like that the fact I think he's unaccomplished will just have to accept it or I guess you could keep beating a dead horse trying to change my mind if you like, but I don't think it's gonna happen.

I'm not assigning a time frame to be considered "accomplished". I'm not talking about everyone in general, just MC. There are guys I've met that can play amazingly in just a couple years so it's passion, soul, and raw artistry that make the difference, not years of playing. But I don't think MC has that fire in his playing. Maybe he will be really good in a year or 2, or maybe never, but he's isn't there to me yet (obviously). To me, an accomplished musician has that fire in their playing.

There is a line between amateur and pro, accomplished and unaccomplished. I can't lay those requirements out broadly and precisely like some of you are asking, but I didn't make up the concept. There is a point at which someone used to be unaccomplished and then they become accomplished. My niece is unaccomplished and Bill Wyman is accomplished.

My niece may become accomplished someday (just as some of you that seem to be worried whether you are or not may too), but I don't know when, if, or how that will occur. It will or it won't. But until it does, I think people who don't have that fire shouldn't be in the forefront of music. That's not to say they shouldn't be playing out, just not in the forefront IMO because I feel they are taking up limited space from better bands/musicians.

You wouldn't say someone who's been playing for a week and doesn't know how to tune their bass is accomplished would you? But you have heroes that you think are. So there is a line there somewhere isn't there? If not, then I suppose you think everybody is equally as good and everybody deserves to be known for their art?

You don't get the point, and probably never will. You have no idea what my musical background is.

Well said. Thanks, that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking too, but you said it even better than I was going to.

Let me take this one piece-by-piece..

Than you are using an assumption that you have zero knowledge of (my musical career/history) to base your argument. While I am using the same facts that M0ses posted earlier today in my argument. I'm not forcing you to take my side, but I do maintain that based on those facts, the most logical line of thinking is that MC wasn't chosen for his skills, but for his popularity and celebrity.

No, not for a gig at the bar down the street, but for the BIG stage it absolutely should be based on skill and artistry - not money, popularity, power, or coolness. This acceptance of the mediocre in the mainstream hurts the arts.

You think Aerosmith would give you a gig because you have a van? How about Green Day? We are talking about touring professional bands here, not your myspace friends.

Again, you are comparing a "garage band" or whatever with a professional touring band here. Can you not see a difference in qualifications? How many pros do you think hold auditions and say, "Well, that guy was really the most amazing guy we've had yet.. but homie over there's Dad has a liquor store!". If that's how seriously you take music and yourself, well...

That's fine if you don't agree, but yes, that is how I'm coming off because that's what I (and at least a few other perceptive people here) think.

Not in the Majors man, the industry is competitve as all hell. And if your chops aren't there, you'll get replaced by the record label before the recording even starts. Well.. unless you're an actor.

Yes, the public decides, but the public already likes MC because of his acting career so therefore they will be led to like his playing too - and most without even realizing it. Simple marketing.

And not everyone can be famous. There isn't room for every band. Nor should there be. There are over 6 billion people on this planet so there is a finite # of bands that can be on the radio/mainstream for any given genre. The mainstream should be the people that care enough to hone their skills and their artisty to the highest levels. Maybe MC cares about that too, but his skills aren't there yet, just his name.

So you think his band picked him so he could work on his own betterment now? Definitely not because he's a super popular actor, right? I play music for my own fufillment, but I'm also not touring or trying to put food on the table with it. If I was, I would expect to get fired if my skills weren't up to par.

I did not say he didn't have a musical background (albeit very basic). I have been talking baout his bass playing background the entire time. I have been playing piano since I was 6, but when I picked up bass at 16, besides knowing what the major scale was and that the black keys were sharps/flats, it didn't help me much to be good on bass. so it doesn't matter that he may have played guitar for a couple years 1st, you should know that the technique and the way you think about playing bass is totally different.

You guys are stuck on repeat so let's drop it. Realize that htere are people in the world that see it differently than you and accept it. I have. I don't care that you guys might like that noise.

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[Gus Borden]

Wow, I think that people are coming at this thread from different directions and some are not taking the time to at least acknowledge others' POV. That aside.

I just decided to do a five-minute google search:

1. "Cera has a history with Thorburn as he previously starred in the Islands' video for 'No You Don't'"
2. He has not been confirmed as an official member at this point: "will continue on the west coast portion of the tour for the first ten performance dates"

I would assume, after a bit of research, that Cera is playing with them, but not an official member, so perhaps they have no bass player as of yet and all parties involved decided to take advantage of a win-win situation: The band gets a boost from Cera's popularity and Cera gets the opportunity to play a couple of shows with a good band, and get some experience.

Aside from that - being that Cera is on a real-live tour, he is no longer an "amatuer", regardless of his skill level, he is getting paid, he is now a pro. Would not be the first bassist (or other musician) that has had a gig that a better musician could have had.

And aside from the aside, obviously the band seems to think that he can handle it, and it's their call.

 

[Bass Hole]

Let me take this one piece-by-piece..



Than you are using an assumption that you have zero knowledge of (my musical career/history) to base your argument. While I am using the same facts that M0ses posted earlier today in my argument. I'm not forcing you to take my side, but I do maintain that based on those facts, the most logical line of thinking is that MC wasn't chosen for his skills, but for his popularity and celebrity.

It's nothing more than a gratuitous assertion. It can equally be denied. You simply weren't there when they decided.

No, not for a gig at the bar down the street, but for the BIG stage it absolutely should be based on skill and artistry - not money, popularity, power, or coolness. This acceptance of the mediocre in the mainstream hurts the arts.

Stage presentation (coolness) is actually more important than artistry when it goes from a small gig to a big show. You have to be able to play to get there, but if you look like a dork on stage they'll yank you quickly. Let's face it, most of the big sellers out there aren't playing anything terribly difficult. I'm not a great bassist, but I can play it so I'd assume others can too.

You think Aerosmith would give you a gig because you have a van? How about Green Day? We are talking about touring professional bands here, not your myspace friends.

Back in the day, that is often how bands got together before they made it. The top selling tour right now is a group of personal friends of mine and they got together by somewhat random circumstances based more on location and opportunity than carefully matching personalities and capabilities.
I got a gig with Willie Nelson once because I was the only one who lived close to the venue and had a guitar I could get to in 10 minutes or less. Things happen.

Again, you are comparing a "garage band" or whatever with a professional touring band here. Can you not see a difference in qualifications? How many pros do you think hold auditions and say, "Well, that guy was really the most amazing guy we've had yet.. but homie over there's Dad has a liquor store!". If that's how seriously you take music and yourself, well...

I know for a fact that people are chosen in auditions based on more than musical ability. Presentation, attitude, willingness to either take or refuse drugs. In the early days of any band, the bar can be set anywhere.

That's fine if you don't agree, but yes, that is how I'm coming off because that's what I (and at least a few other perceptive people here) think.

Not in the Majors man, the industry is competitve as all hell. And if your chops aren't there, you'll get replaced by the record label before the recording even starts. Well.. unless you're an actor.

Seems like that actor was playing his part, so to speak. Didn't see any mistakes. I knew a guy who went on tour with a nationally known band only 6 months after picking up a bass, because they didn't need another guitarist. Was he great? Not really, but he could play the part and had years of experience being on stage with a guitar.

Yes, the public decides, but the public already likes MC because of his acting career so therefore they will be led to like his playing too - and most without even realizing it. Simple marketing.

And not everyone can be famous. There isn't room for every band. Nor should there be. There are over 6 billion people on this planet so there is a finite # of bands that can be on the radio/mainstream for any given genre. The mainstream should be the people that care enough to hone their skills and their artisty to the highest levels. Maybe MC cares about that too, but his skills aren't there yet, just his name.

There is all the room in the world if a band has the appeal. Record companies are in it to make money. Do you really think only the big sellers are the best musicians? Many of them are not good technical players, they just have a catchy tune.
I have had people come into a studio with me whose name you would recognize who were utterly confused when they were asked to change key on a song. Popular doesn't always mean good technically.

So you think his band picked him so he could work on his own betterment now? Definitely not because he's a super popular actor, right? I play music for my own fufillment, but I'm also not touring or trying to put food on the table with it. If I was, I would expect to get fired if my skills weren't up to par.

Maybe they picked him because he's their friend and is good enough to play what they need played. Maybe one of the guys is dating his mom... who cares? He's not putting some "artist" out of work.

 

[The Bass Clef]

GIFSoup

Funny, but true...
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[Slax]

...*** happened in this thread? It's like fun stepped in poo. :\

I think it's cool that he's playing. He's played a bass player on the big screen twice already. I think it's awesome to see that he can actually do it.

 

[TaySte_2000]

Just to confirm, everyone know that it was JMJ (Justin Meldal-Johnsen) who played bass the bass battle of the Scott Pilgrim movie? him and Jason Falkner? With Jason doing pretty much everything else in the movie I believe.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=687464

I have no opinion on Michael Cera being in a band, playing bass etc just wanted to big up JMJ.

Enjoy