Mike Gordon (A tone discussion)

[Gingerbass]

An ask for the folks on this thread. Aside from digging into Mike’s tone over the years, it would be very cool to discuss some of his phrasing. Maybe that’s for another thread.

I’ve transcribed a few songs and played through notation of several and one thing that boggles my mind is that I haven’t come across many Mike-isms. Ya know, the same phrases appearing in different songs. Thinking about players like Jaco, he had phrases he used all over his compositions. Mike strikes me as a musician who, like Phil, has fewer stock phrases.

Hmm I hadn't thought of that but we can definitely do a bit on it. First things first though I want to cover the fundamental tone and some eq stuff. I never actually 100% learned his exact phrasings in jams because I wanted to leave some room for myself.

 

[Stagelab]

Edwin!! It's been a while my friend! I think the last time I saw you was in the bathroom at roads Good to have you in the discussion! And yes the first Modulus Mike played was the all black tbx but if I'm not mistaken my and many people's favorite bass was the Claro Walnut Q5 which I believe was a bolt on. My bass is a 1999 with a Redwood Burl top and I have been extremely surprised how much more it sounds like Mike's than Brian or Fleeb's basses (which I have played) granted they have a different top wood the biggest difference is they both use the Bartolini pickups where as I have the EMG setup. I think the 35" bolt on has some different tonal qualities that I like compared to the 34" tbx Mike used till recently. I'll be doing some demonstrations for folks on here that I think will be pretty informative on achieving a "Mike Like" sound. I will say that AlembicXModulus 6 string tbx you have might have the best sound B string I've ever heard!

His first Modulus was brown. Europe ‘97. I saw the first leg of the ‘97 US summer tour and was thrilled to see him playing one, since Phil, Oteil, Dave Schools and Tye North all played them.

Check this out. Phish 1997 Summer European tour

I never heard of a 34” Modulus. Interesting. I’d love one. The 35” scale is what keeps me away from Quantums.

 

[Gingerbass]

His first Modulus was brown. Europe ‘97. I saw the first leg of the ‘97 US summer tour and was thrilled to see him playing one, since Phil, Oteil, Dave Schools and Tye North all played them.

Check this out. Phish 1997 Summer European tour

I never heard of a 34” Modulus. Interesting. I’d love one. The 35” scale is what keeps me away from Quantums.

Yeah dude I was shocked when I first played the 35" It really does take some getting used to especially when going below the 12th fret and than trying to hit like the low D quick to drop a bomb lol. But yeah they started making 34" scales when they rebranded or whatever.

 

[BGroovy]

His first Modulus was brown. Europe ‘97. I saw the first leg of the ‘97 US summer tour and was thrilled to see him playing one, since Phil, Oteil, Dave Schools and Tye North all played them.

Check this out. Phish 1997 Summer European tour

I never heard of a 34” Modulus. Interesting. I’d love one. The 35” scale is what keeps me away from Quantums.

The Funk Unlimited/ Flea models are 34". I don't get along with 35" or the string spacing on the Quantum's so that was the first Modulus I was able to bond with.

 

[arginator]

Following this thread!

 

[cabthebaker]

If you’re familiar with the HX Stomp and are able to share ideas on a Mike preset or two, that would be icing on the cake. Surprisingly, Line 6 didn’t include an Eden amp or cab sim in the Stomp.

There is an Eden 4x10 in the stomp! It’s called the “Garden 4x10”

 

[cabthebaker]

I’ve been posting some bass videos of myself improving to some late 90s Phish on Instagram and have gotten some compliments on my “Mike tone”. One cheat code of mine is the “Regal Bass DI” in the HX Stomp. I find that it gives a similar effect to the enhance knob on the Eden amps. I am also running an Ibanez BTB1905, which has the Aguilar DCB pickups. I believe it’s the best budget alternative to a modulus. Here is a link to my l page if anyone is interested in my tone. I’m not trying to be a carbon copy of Mike, but a lot of others seem to think I have his tone.

 

[HolmeBass]

TBH my favorite Mike tones were the early records with the G&L I think? And any discussion of the Modulus - Eden - Meyer era needs to include that for a time, it seems that Mike was aping Phil Lesh’s setup down to the graphite picks, same strings, and cranking the Eden “Enhance” knob all the way up.

Enhance knob all the way up? That is super-scooped! Did they use the Myersound parametric EQ to try and add some mids back in?

 

[edwinhurwitz]

Yeah dude I was shocked when I first played the 35" It really does take some getting used to especially when going below the 12th fret and than trying to hit like the low D quick to drop a bomb lol. But yeah they started making 34" scales when they rebranded or whatever.

Phil Lesh was the first to order a 34" Modulus. Mike got one when Modulus built some for Phil some time ago. I would love to try one, but I'm not in the market for another Modulus. 3 is enough!

 

[Gingerbass]

Phil Lesh was the first to order a 34" Modulus. Mike got one when Modulus built some for Phil some time ago. I would love to try one, but I'm not in the market for another Modulus. 3 is enough!

Wow no kidding! Very cool information. I just assumed it was when they switched to "Modulus Graphite" that they adopted it. I have the feeling your going to be incredibly insightful in this conversation lol. Cheers! Now you got me thinking about a tbx!

 

[Gingerbass]

The Funk Unlimited/ Flea models are 34". I don't get along with 35" or the string spacing on the Quantum's so that was the first Modulus I was able to bond with.

View attachment 7477652

Yeah I had one for years. I should have put EMGs in it as I was in a Phish tribute at the time lol. Never really got the sound I needed with the one bridge pickup. Thing was an absolute slap monster though! Same color to! It's in my profile pic.

 

[Gingerbass]

Enhance knob all the way up? That is super-scooped! Did they use the Myersound parametric EQ to try and add some mids back in?

Probably just the eq on the Wt-800 it's one of the best eq's on any bass amp. 3 bands of semi parametric eq from 30hz-12k

 

[BGroovy]

Yeah I had one for years. I should have put EMGs in it as I was in a Phish tribute at the time lol. Never really got the sound I needed with the one bridge pickup. Thing was an absolute slap monster though! Same color to! It's in my profile pic.

Mine was the 2 pickup jazz bass version. I traded it for a Serek. It's one I would take back in a heartbeat.

 

[HolmeBass]

Probably just the eq on the Wt-800 it's one of the best eq's on any bass amp. 3 bands of semi parametric eq from 30hz-12k

I guess maybe… I am familiar with that preamp section, but I never dimed enhance, but I have my doubts that’s it for EQ in his rig.

 

[Gingerbass]

Enhance knob all the way up? That is super-scooped! Did they use the Myersound parametric EQ to try and add some mids back in?

Probably just the eq on the Wt-800 it's one of the best eq's on any bass amp. 3 bands of semi parametric eq from 30hz-12

I guess maybe… I am familiar with that preamp section, but I never dimed enhance, but I have my doubts that’s it for EQ in his rig.

That's the thing nobody really knows. And I don't know if he used the Meyer eq yet. I'll show you what I can get out of the amp when it's on full here eventually. (Super busy with band stuff right now) But I typically like it between 25-50%

 

[HolmeBass]

Probably just the eq on the Wt-800 it's one of the best eq's on any bass amp. 3 bands of semi parametric eq from 30hz-12

That's the thing nobody really knows. And I don't know if he used the Meyer eq yet. I'll show you what I can get out of the amp when it's on full here eventually. (Super busy with band stuff right now) But I typically like it between 25-50%

I never turn the enhance past 9 o’clock.

A friend is a huge gear hound and he put together what he said was Gordo’s Meyers rig with the huge parametric EQ. Like 12 or 15 bands of fully parametric EQ. He said he found Gordon’s settings online. We opened for them once and he let me play through it, and I thought it was far too much mid scoop for my taste.

 

[Gingerbass]

I never turn the enhance past 9 o’clock.

A friend is a huge gear hound and he put together what he said was Gordo’s Meyers rig with the huge parametric EQ. Like 12 or 15 bands of fully parametric EQ. He said he found Gordon’s settings online. We opened for them once and he let me play through it, and I thought it was far too much mid scoop for my taste.

Wow that's so cool! There's a guy in Austin in a dead cover band that has that meyer set up and I think he sounds nothing like PhiI. I have a lot of theory's but that's all they are for now. Also I'm pretty sure you can't just copy the settings and get a good result as eq's probably change night to night. And unless he had a TBX there's definitely gonna be some difference. I have a theory im going to show eventually. I think in 3.0 (Modulus) he actually pans to the neck pickup a bit. Not the whole way but when I do it on my bass with the same pickups/preamp I basically instantly get close to that sound. He even hints at it in the 2012 rig rundown. Also another thing I think could be a big factor in 2.0 vs 3.0 is the ADA-MB1. That's the preamp he used in 2.0 but now he's on the Avalon u5.

 

[HolmeBass]

Wow that's so cool! There's a guy in Austin in a dead cover band that has that meyer set up and I think he sounds nothing like PhiI. I have a lot of theory's but that's all they are for now. Also I'm pretty sure you can't just copy the settings and get a good result as eq's probably change night to night. And unless he had a TBX there's definitely gonna be some difference. I have a theory im going to show eventually. I think in 3.0 (Modulus) he actually pans to the neck pickup a bit. Not the whole way but when I do it on my bass with the same pickups/preamp I basically instantly get close to that sound. He even hints at it in the 2012 rig rundown. Also another thing I think could be a big factor in 2.0 vs 3.0 is the ADA-MB1. That's the preamp he used in 2.0 but now he's on the Avalon u5.

My buddy does play a Modulus, but I am not sure what type. It is only a 4-string.

I played my Warwick Streamer Stage I through his rig, and I like a lot of mids in my sound, so it made me uncomfortable. But I had promised him not to change any of the settings on his rig!

He also uses the current hi-end Accugroove cabinets, which is not what Gordo used. I am sure the Meyer’s rig derives a lot of its on-stage sound from the Meters PA cabinets used.

I realized that it was actually way more EQ than I would want to deal with on a regular basis.

 

[Gingerbass]

My buddy does play a Modulus, but I am not sure what type. It is only a 4-string.

I played my Warwick Streamer Stage I through his rig, and I like a lot of mids in my sound, so it made me uncomfortable. But I had promised him not to change any of the settings on his rig!

He also uses the current hi-end Accugroove cabinets, which is not what Gordo used. I am sure the Meyer’s rig derives a lot of its on-stage sound from the Meters PA cabinets used.

I realized that it was actually way more EQ than I would want to deal with on a regular basis.

Haha yeah you gotta be ready for the eq process. But you get faster at it the more you do it. I also historically have boosted my mids but since I've got this setup (obviously it depends on the room) but I basically cut some 40-50hz cut even more mids and even more high end. Like -8db somewhere 4-6k than add in the enhance to my liking.and I should say I'm still dialing it. Also that's for my derlin 1.6mm picks eq as of late.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I know there have been many Mike tone threads over the years but this one may be a little different. I want to use this thread to document how the average bass player can get close to that Mike Gordon sound and start an extremely in depth discussion about the nuances of Mike Gordon's fundamental tone Not the flanger or the Deep impact,(for now) we are looking into all the real wizardry that makes his basses sound the way they do.This has been a life long personal journey for me more of a quest really, chasing the depth and clarity I hear when I see a Phish show. The picture above is my current rig which I will break down in my next post. (Where the real discussion will begin) I plan to make some videos and recordings showing how to as best as possible recreate that legendary sound and hopefully get some help from y'all along the way! I'm interested in any era but mostly 1998-end of modulus era. For now feel free to share any knowledge, insight or even stories you can I just wanted to get the ball rolling. Cheers!

Well from personal experience, buying that rig in the picture would be a pretty good way to get his sound! Eden WT series amps and D series cabs were top of the line. Really heavy, really expensive. For the cost of that rig 20 years ago without including the effects of inflation you could buy two Mesa rigs today.

Did I say Eden was really expensive… Seriously what sunk Eden wasn’t they wen’t good, hardly. They were and are incredible. What sunk them was the cost benefit ratio got out of hand and they couldn’t sell enough of them.