Missing out by not being able to read music?

[topo morto]

The reason is because if you know your fretboard, you automatically know where F is all over it.

If you know your fretboard, you know where the octaves and unisons of a particular note are, whatever you call that note and however you are thinking of it at the time. You could be thinking of it as 'F', or 'the major third of the chord I am currently playing', or 'the note that the singer just sang'.

If you just know the fret #s you are not pairing the note with the tone.

Sure, just knowing the fret numbers would be very limiting. But clearly, thinking in terms of fret numbers is not the only alternative to conventional score and terminology.

Your point who the note loves makes no sense to me.

OK, Sorry I am guessing you are not a native English speaker - I was aiming for a kind of religious tone (like 'Jesus loves you, even though you are a sinner')

 

[topo morto]

I was typing while you posted, so I didn't see this until after I had written my post, but I'm glad to see that they acknowledge essentially exactly the point that I made in my post: "Actually, experienced readers of traditional notation may not find this passage to be that difficult for reasons that will become apparent below."

Sure, but as I said before, we can't simply judge things from the point of view of the Proficient Reader. Clearly you're pretty good at score - respect. But you're jumping over obstacles that are placed there for you by the notation system, no matter how good you have become at it.

My whole point was that text-based tab is in fact severely limited compared to notation in terms of being able to convey note durations. You seemed to be disputing that point in your earlier posts.

I already suggested one way durations could be shown, even just using text - and of course tab could be published in a much more sophisticated way. I am persuaded that score is a more efficient way to show many rhythms. The point I had about score and its limitations when it comes to timing, tangential as it was, was not in comparison with tab. That's all back in the thread somewhere. Please, no more talking about tab - it's boring!

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this particular example in any event. Are you suggesting that there is a better way to notate this example than standard notation?

How about the chromatic staff suggested at http://musicnotation.org/? And
I would not call it 'better' - I would observe that it has certain advantages and disadvantages, like everything.

 

[JimmyM]

Well here's the deal...whatever other language you may like better, you will be speaking it alone.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

How about the chromatic staff suggested at http://musicnotation.org/? And
I would not call it 'better' - I would observe that it has certain advantages and disadvantages, like everything.

As you said it isn,t better nor worst ... it just try to make it easier and I don't think it succeed in that departement. The way they explain it ... it is kind of "the standart is difficult and I don,t wanna learn it and TAB doesn,t give enough info so here are my new awesome idea"

 

[fdeck]

Now I mentioned that there are different levels of reading ability. One area where I'd like to improve is reading complicated (to my brain) Latin and funk rhythms.

 

[carl h.]

Well here's the deal...whatever other language you may like better, you will be speaking it alone.

You could also say he will be playing with himself too. Who wants to play with some dude who couldn't figure out the language used by the industry and who created his own way of doing it? Who needs or wants that in a group?

A guy with a good ear who gets what I play for him ? No problem.

A guy who can play the changes from a lead sheet after hearing it played for him once? No problem.

A guy who can read it cold? Money in the bank.

Some dude who would rather bitch about minutiae? Thanks for stopping by, we'll call you.


If you want to redefine how things are done, master the status quo, and gain some standing as an expert. Then set up your own method of learning and reading and promote it based on your success. People might be more inclined to take you seriously.

 

[carl h.]

Now I mentioned that there are different levels of reading ability. One area where I'd like to improve is reading complicated (to my brain) Latin and funk rhythms.

Seriously, study drums. Take basic drum kit lessons from a real percussionist with university level studies. Breaking it down in to the most mind numbing simple counting exercises and rebuilding my rhythmic approach in college was one of the best things I ever did. I was a pretty competent musician when I entered college - played 1st violin in the local symphony, got all the theater gigs, had 2 years of theory and a year of counterpoint, had played been playing major concerto's in front of orchestras for years when I entered college. I could count rhythm as well as anyone.

It was frustrating and annoying to spend week after week on snare drum (exclusively) counting 1e&a2e&a3e&a and so forth, but it locked it in so hard that there is no way I could not subdivide down to the smallest subdivision anytime a challenging rhythm has been presented to me. It has made all the difference in reading the music and the physical motions used to produce the music on various instruments. Snare directly translates to bowing which has worked wonders on some of my students by having them play difficult licks on the snare - without the melody, just defining the rhythm. Once the rhythm is locked, the notes are generally a piece of cake.

Plus there are some etude books for drum kit which are a trip and a half to try to read down cold. No 8 or 12 bar pattern and a fill, actual melodically and rhythmically interesting drum etudes using the full kit to full melodic potential. Nothing fit for public performance outside of an educational venue, but as a drummer these things really free you from getting locked exclusively into the same repetitious patterns that most gigs compromise.

Plus the drum lessons led to me getting the plum timpani gig in the opera company. Not a bad sideline to have in your resume. Study with the highest rated pro you can get in with. I lucked into a relatively big dog in the perc world.

 

[Kukulkan61]

reading is over rated,just play the damn thing and put your heart and soul into it...

 

[carl h.]

reading is over rated,just play the damn thing and put your heart and soul into it...

OK

Carmen, in F

2,3,4

 

[Josh Pelican]

I've been playing for half my life and I can't read music. I know the notes of the neck and can read tablature, but sheet music throws me off completely.

I play/listen to music of many different genres and not once has it been a concern I can't read music. I've never jammed with a full group/band where everyone else could read it either.

 

[topo morto]

You could also say he will be playing with himself too. Who wants to play with some dude who couldn't figure out the language used by the industry and who created his own way of doing it? Who needs or wants that in a group?

A guy with a good ear who gets what I play for him ? No problem.

A guy who can play the changes from a lead sheet after hearing it played for him once? No problem.

A guy who can read it cold? Money in the bank.

Some dude who would rather bitch about minutiae? Thanks for stopping by, we'll call you.

If you want to redefine how things are done, master the status quo, and gain some standing as an expert. Then set up your own method of learning and reading and promote it based on your success. People might be more inclined to take you seriously.

The topic of this thread is whether one is 'Missing out by not being able to read music'.

It's been repeated a few times now that those who want a job as a session musician, or guy on call, are going to need to read. No-one will have let that point pass them by. But as not everybody has that as their aim in life, There's room for a wider discussion as well. And as part of that, it's fair to discuss how music notation works, and what it does well and perhaps not so well. That's where the mention of other systems and ideas has come from, as a comparison - not from anyone's particular desire to promote them as better, or 'redefine how things are done'.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

reading is over rated,just play the damn thing and put your heart and soul into it...

It is for non profesional players, but when ever amatuers want a guide to whats going on then look to a professional.

So just play the damn thing......how do you learn to play the damn thing? If you think that you get giving a recording and then work it out then work with others in rehearsing then ask yourself this, "why would you take the time and trouble to work it out when someone has done that already for you"?

Now for me as a pro when i enter a studio the clock is running, so if you teach me your song....you pay, of you have to run through and explain your arrangment...you pay, when i rehearse it with you or others....you pay. But if i turn up, and play what is written then job done by me, money, time and enery saved by you.

Reading is like your launguage reading skills, you can use them profesionally to read instructions, plans, directions,
labels, warnings etc, or to read comics, papers, books, DVD covers etc.

The thing about reading books is you use as much or as little as you need to read what you want, you add to it as you understand more, you take progressively more intricate plots, story lines, ideas, etc...even learning ideas.
And so it is with music, we do not start a child learning to read off with Tolstoy or Shakespeare any more that we do with music readers using some of Mozart or Rachmaninoffs more demanding pieces.

Reading music has many levels and skills, from chart reading to sight reading on the fly to reading slowly in your own time and working it out. Maybe you need to get a reference book and look up a symbol or accidental you have never seen before.....well thats cool you are allowed to do that.
Learning to read is intuitive, that means you will remember and retain aspects of what you have ever read...music or language. You will remember, use and reference what has gone before in what ever you read and develop the ability to hear what is on the page using your eyes not only your ears.....then you can play and put your heart and soul into it, but you have to learn what you are putting your heart and soul into first.

 

[bassmeknik]

Here's the difference: many -- if not all -- of us who read music can also play by ear and can therefore give some perspective on both sides of the issue. The converse does not appear to be true.

+1

 

[bassmeknik]

OK

Carmen, in F

2,3,4

 

[scotch]

Is this even a debate?!? Literacy> illiteracy. Every time.

Do you HAVE to be literate to enjoy or participate in music? No. Would being literate enhance the experience and make more things possible? Yes.

Is there really a case for illiteracy being more desirable? Geez I hope not!

 

[BassChuck]

Is this even a debate?!? Literacy> illiteracy. Every time.

Do you HAVE to be literate to enjoy or participate in music? No. Would being literate enhance the experience and make more things possible? Yes.

Is there really a case for illiteracy being more desirable? Geez I hope not!

+1 There you go, that's it. This topic as been kick about on TB for years, and the song remains the same.

I cannot recall anyone ever saying, "Help me forget to read music", or "how I regret learning to read".

I will say that as someone who has read music all their life I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to pick up that skill later in life WITHOUT having 1.) A reason to do that, 2.) a teacher to help, and 3.) A group of musicians to read music together and keep up with each other.

All that said, even a modest ability to read standard notation will open doors of all kinds. It will be worth the effort, good luck.

 

[AngelCrusher]

OK, Sorry I am guessing you are not a native English speaker - I was aiming for a kind of religious tone (like 'Jesus loves you, even though you are a sinner')

I got my Minor in English but because I don't buy into your bizarre arguments and logic I am not a native speaker?.

Clearly you just want to insult someone now or you are naive to think that your "tone" carries over via typing. It only works if you are a great writer as I doubt anyone understood your tone but yourself. Kind of like how you interpret music with millisecond timing like you would program MIDI.

Anyway, have fun with it. The points have all been made here and I haven't read anything from you that changes my opinion in any way.

 

[Already In Use]

I got the wake up call over the last few months. 1st one when I was asked to sub for a band whose bass player had a death in the family. The only music they handed me was notation. That was only for a few songs. The others I was told the key, the chords...ready play! I did have to bring the notation home and create fake chord charts for myself. 2nd time was when I wanted to do classes with Berklee online. I want to learn how to read so I can play music from notation, especially for tunes that have signature, hook basslines. Both bands I play in have musicians that read and play what they read. I want to be able to do that.

 

[JimmyM]

reading is over rated,just play the damn thing and put your heart and soul into it...

The only people who say reading is overrated are people who can't read. But how would they know? If you can't do something, how is your "expert opinion" relevant?

 

[Kukulkan61]

ok Mr. Devo James Brown your right i cant read but I've been playing for over 35 years,and every style of music you can think of ,mariachi,country,latin rock,rock top 40 funkalypso,R&B ,soul Motown,Tex mex ,Tejano and Blues,and I was always playing,i would learn everything by ear,I tried to learn to read but it was boring and it made me feel like i was starting over from scratch,besides i was to busy rehearsing and playing to even have the time to learn to read,maybe its not an expert opinion but my experiance can sure speak for itself...: