Modern micro amps - disposable?

[agedhorse]

As a general note, I have seen the overall quality of the service industry decline over the past 10 years as the top techs just get tired of dealing with unreasonable customers. Those that can, have been leaving the industry because there are easier ways to make a living, with less hassle. If customers (and some manufacturers) continue to drive the best techs out of the market, the market will be stuck with bottom of the food chain techs that are no longer able to repair their equipment. At that point, the equipment will indeed become disposable and at least a few of you will be happy your brash statements are now true. For the rest of the customers, it will be a big loss.

 

[swamp_bass]

As a general note, I have seen the overall quality of the service industry decline over the past 10 years as the top techs just get tired of dealing with unreasonable customers. Those that can, have been leaving the industry because there are easier ways to make a living, with less hassle. If customers (and some manufacturers) continue to drive the best techs out of the market, the market will be stuck with bottom of the food chain techs that are no longer able to repair their equipment. At that point, the equipment will indeed become disposable and at least a few of you will be happy your brash statements are now true. For the rest of the customers, it will be a big loss.

Sad but true. I have a coworker who has a bunch of hi fi equipment from the 80's and 90's, and he's having the toughest time finding anybody who can repair these analog amps and decks.

It's not just electronics; when was the last time you tried searching for a shoe repair shop, or a lawnmower repair shop? I think one of the many factors at work is just how inexpensive consumer durable goods have gotten. Electronics and small engine products are cheaper now than they ever were when you adjust for inflation. That adds to the downward pressure on the repair business, as fewer consumers want to get the engine rebuilt on an eight year old $200 lawnmower.

 

[B-string]

As a general note, I have seen the overall quality of the service industry decline over the past 10 years as the top techs just get tired of dealing with unreasonable customers. Those that can, have been leaving the industry because there are easier ways to make a living, with less hassle. If customers (and some manufacturers) continue to drive the best techs out of the market, the market will be stuck with bottom of the food chain techs that are no longer able to repair their equipment. At that point, the equipment will indeed become disposable and at least a few of you will be happy your brash statements are now true. For the rest of the customers, it will be a big loss.

Stand strong agedhorse. Flimsy words maybe from me as I left the golden coast partly for the reasons you mentioned. I will add those who take the time and care to do a job well, get passed over for a the next repair for a fast talker, get darn tired of cleaning up after the mess made by others. You want cheap, you most likely get expensive in the long run.

 

[bebass]

I won't and can't say what brand, but just last year I tried to get a personal amp repaired and was given an estimate of repair that was about $50-$100 more than the amp cost NEW. I received estimates from the manufacturer and two different repair shops. So yes, it COULD be repaired. But I opted to buy a different manufacturers product. If a tech that gets 50-100 an hour has to do a complicated repair with a part that cost a good bit, it may or may not be worth it. In my case the amp became a paperweight. I think it depends on the level of new cost. A $200 amp may or may not be worth repairing while a $800 amp would be definitely worth putting some bucks into. Gosh, I miss the old days of Peavey. I once purchased a known fried to the gills Peavey power amp and drove straight to the Peavey factory and had it repaired, while I waited, with all new output stage+ and it cost me $100. This was a fairly expensive power amp.

 

[bebass]

...you want cheap, you most likely get expensive in the long run.

These are words that took me until I was in my early 30's to really learn that they are so freakin true! I have found out if I save up and buy good products that it cost me way less over a period of time.

 

[B-string]

What tech gets $100 an hour? Even $75 or $50 an hour?

You must be speaking of shop hourly charges, not techs hourly pay. Yes, I do believe it is important to make this point. I was in a dealership parts department and another customer was speaking loudly over the counter in the tech's direction about how they were getting $115 an hour. I knew much better and straighten him out. Those that were doing the work top pay was $26.50 per BILLABLE hour not per the hour they were required to be there.

 

[Munjibunga]

A good tech can (and will) do it.

Most repair shop techs will not.

 

[DirkP]

Sad but true. I have a coworker who has a bunch of hi fi equipment from the 80's and 90's, and he's having the toughest time finding anybody who can repair these analog amps and decks.

It's not just electronics; when was the last time you tried searching for a shoe repair shop, or a lawnmower repair shop? I think one of the many factors at work is just how inexpensive consumer durable goods have gotten. Electronics and small engine products are cheaper now than they ever were when you adjust for inflation. That adds to the downward pressure on the repair business, as fewer consumers want to get the engine rebuilt on an eight year old $200 lawnmower.

At least we still have shoe repair shops here in Hamburg. They have to shorten or repair my bass straps all the time. The last two gear-related repairs I had were the german company SPL and EHX.
Both units were repaired, not replaced. And I got both back within 2 weeks. Both were under warranty. In the EHX-case I had bought the unit in the UK via Internet. EHX has a german repairshop doing the repairs for them and honestly telling them that I didn't bought the Unit in Germany (wanted to have it and it wasn't available in Germany at this point in time) they immediately accepted to repair it charging me nothing.

My general impression in this case is: people always tend to romantize the past. 30 years ago, I would just have expected to get cheated when I let someone repair my gear. I would pay the double-price if it still would be somehow acceptable for me. Not in all cases, but more often than not.
Today if you buy something from a large manufacturer and get cheated, manufacturers know that if you post it in a forum read by many users of their gear, it can damage their reputation in a big way. I have the overall impression that service has become much better today.

Sometimes I even pity the manufacturers or sellers:
Like with people who order 3 pieces of gear, send back all of it or two and complain like being cheated if they receive a piece of gear someone else has touched before. That is getting a bit ridiculous...

Looking for people who repair complicated old stuff long out of warranty might be a different case....

 

[AlexanderB]

Ok everyone! I am not here to make enemies!
I am glad that agedhorse confirms the general problem of finding and keeping qualified technicians working in the MI industry. This, along with the need for additional training, advanced equipment and up to date service documentation, are the "bottlenecks" that I see. As the requirements are rising, more long distance shipping is also required to the fewer and fewer service centres that can repair the newest gear.
The possibility of sending equipment back to an American manufacturer is of course great, as long as you live in US...

By the way... A few months ago, I contacted EBS (the head quarters) here in Sweden, to have them do a general "check up" on my EBS 1V2 preamp. (There was a slight problem with some internal voltage offset and DC on the master volume, IIRC.) I had checked with a couple of independent MI technicians, but they were somewhat reluctant to do this job, as EBS do not really support independent shops with documents, and with this being a SMT amp, some component values are not discernable to the eye.
(The unit is close to 25 years old, but EBS were doing SMT already back then...)
Anyway, shipping two ways + EBS's "start up fee" BEFORE any parts were replaced ended up costing as much a second hand unit bought from a MI store! And that unit comes with a three month warranty + 12 months possibility to claim any failure.

Of course I did NOT send my amp to them.
I did the trouble shooting myself, but someone else would probably just discard the thing.

Peace!

 

[Jim C]

Ironically I brought my car to the dealer’s body shop today to look at a small dent in a front fender.
I was thinking a quick slide hammer job, hammer and hand dolly, prime & paint.
He said that skilled body men are a thing of the past and that he can buy a new FACTORY fender for less than $100 new.
Even if he had the skilled labor it might still be cheaper to swap the part as the clock eats them alive and they are working off the insurance company estimates most of the time.

 

[DirkP]

Ironically I brought my car to the dealer’s body shop today to look at a small dent in a front fender.
I was thinking a quick slide hammer job, hammer and hand dolly, prime & paint.
He said that skilled body men are a thing of the past and that he can buy a new FACTORY fender for less than $100 new.
Even if he had the skilled labor it might still be cheaper to swap the part as the clock eats them alive and they are working off the insurance company estimates most of the time.

'till this very day, not being a native speaker, but a bassplayer, I thought >Fender< would be an english surname...

 

[Ric Vice]

I think that an important reason it's becoming more difficult to repair older amplifiers is possibly because their has been a sea change in the way consumers listen to music in the last 20 years. The Stereo Hi-Fi business that sold component CD players, recievers, tuners, and amplifiers has been virtually replaced by a loung sucession, of Walkman, Discman, and MP3 personal music players. So demand for parts and technicians has fallen off dramatically. Meanwhile, some amplifier companies are designing amps without any regard to how they can be serviced. So, unfortunately as things stand right at the moment an Ampeg B-15N is easier to repair than any of the current crop of micro amps.

 

[agedhorse]

Times are indeed changing and I am doing my part to continuing to develop supportable, serviceable, long lived products. I have a real problem with disposable, it's just wrong for the environment, for the economy and for the pride of those who develop, build and play the amps.

For our North American brethren, I continue to support every Genz Benz bass amp ever built (going back maybe 18 years) and parts availability is no problem (with the exception of the SMPS in the NeoPak 3.5 which I can generally repair economically).

Post Genz Benz/Fender, I am fortunate to have landed with another company (Mesa) that shares the same values of customer service and repair.

My experiences working with the Fender factory support network were also quite positive. There are some very dedicated folks at MOST quality companies that feel the same way. Customer service is not dead, but it is endangered (IMO) by the general cheapening of industry quality standards, for the most part to become super price competitive usually at the expense of longevity, reliability and customer service when it is needed. If the customer really wants disposable products, I'm sure there are plenty of suppliers who will be willing to accommodate this business model... which will make me very sad.

 

[Ric Vice]

These are words that took me until I was in my early 30's to really learn that they are so freakin true! I have found out if I save up and buy good products that it cost me way less over a period of time.

+1
I have always found this to be the case.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Most repair shop techs will not.

Maybe I'm just lucky. I got a guy who will dive into anything and do a good job.

 

[bebass]

What tech gets $100 an hour? Even $75 or $50 an hour?

You must be speaking of shop hourly charges, not techs hourly pay. Yes, I do believe it is important to make this point. I was in a dealership parts department and another customer was speaking loudly over the counter in the tech's direction about how they were getting $115 an hour. I knew much better and straighten him out. Those that were doing the work top pay was $26.50 per BILLABLE hour not per the hour they were required to be there.

Yeah, it is usually the shops that charge the big bucks. In the late 70's I worked as an amp repair person for a bit and didn't make much. But around here there is only one or two
that delve into component level. One independent quoted me 65 per hour. The 100 per hour quote was from a manufacturer that obviously didn't want to work on it.
Hey, you should move here, I bet you could easily charge 60 per hour. Although a lot of people just throw things away. But maybe that is because there are so few good techs,

 

[B-string]

Yeah, it is usually the shops that charge the big bucks. In the late 70's I worked as an amp repair person for a bit and didn't make much. But around here there is only one or two
that delve into component level. One independent quoted me 65 per hour. The 100 per hour quote was from a manufacturer that obviously didn't want to work on it.
Hey, you should move here, I bet you could easily charge 60 per hour. Although a lot of people just throw things away. But maybe that is because there are so few good techs,

Thanks for the invite, but I did move to the middle of the desert for a reason . I dodged the city zoning commission when I had back surgery a year and a half ago. I still have a pair of GE 6L6GC's out in the city from a customer that bought EH's. I'm really tired of guitarists.

 

[Munjibunga]

These are words that took me until I was in my early 30's to really learn that they are so freakin true! I have found out if I save up and buy good products that it cost me way less over a period of time.

Buy once, cry once.

 

[fdeck]

Times are indeed changing and I am doing my part to continuing to develop supportable, serviceable, long lived products. I have a real problem with disposable, it's just wrong for the environment, for the economy and for the pride of those who develop, build and play the amps.

One note is that practically anything on a micro head probably has less environmental impact than some of the components on a conventional amp, notably the copper and other metals in the transformers and heat sinks.

I repair practically everything that breaks in my house. Amidst the demise of techs, we may be entering a golden age of DIY repairs, thanks to the Web. I've often found excellent repair instructions from people who just enjoy blogging about it, and people sell new and used replacement parts on eBay. Probably a lot of the appliance repair info is geared towards landlords. I've repaired the dishwasher, clothes dryer, chest freezer, dehumidifier, waffle maker, stove, lawn mower, chain saw, roto-tiller, and a cell phone (cracked screen). I leave car repairs to the mechanics, because I don't have the space or the tools. I have friends who can help me with welding if needed.

 

[agedhorse]

Yeah, it is usually the shops that charge the big bucks. In the late 70's I worked as an amp repair person for a bit and didn't make much. But around here there is only one or two
that delve into component level. One independent quoted me 65 per hour. The 100 per hour quote was from a manufacturer that obviously didn't want to work on it.
Hey, you should move here, I bet you could easily charge 60 per hour. Although a lot of people just throw things away. But maybe that is because there are so few good techs,

Only one of two that do component level repairs? Wow, are you kidding? Holy smokes! If a tech can't do component level repairs, IMO they are not techs but board swappers who do not posses the skill to troubleshoot and repair. It's shameful IMO, techs should take more pride in their education and skill set, almost anybody can swap boards, and even the board swappers can screw up a repair pretty bad.