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Modern micro amps - disposable?

#161
Andy,
From what I see, the techs are not what they used to be.
The jobs don’t pay all that well and there are better careers for some of the younger guys.

We have a few guys who like working on tube gear and actually do mods, build amps, etc.
Our best old school shop closed recently but the owner was in his 80’s and the other tech was at least in his mid 60’s.

Discrete electronics are being repaired at board level but I’m told that the labor to trouble shoot and repair SMT gear is not available at a reasonable price nor are the available guys fast enough or trained well enough to get this work done on a competitive basis.

Our big shop owner is an EE and hates the waste but is also saying the repair business is shrinking as the gear is getting better!
That is a great sign.

While I personally have had gear go 25+ years without an issue, many have not had this experience.
In fact the amps that have gone to techs were built in the last 7 years (Ampeg 3 Pro and Fender BTX combo) and the issues were both bad solder traces.
If a Fender Squire has a cold solder joint or broken wire so that it doesn’t make sound, the repair shops does the paper work and the guitar is destroyed.
I believe they went back to the old days and want the head stock returned.
Same thing with the little practice amps; if they fail under warranty they are destroyed.

Here’s to guys like you and companies like Mesa who are interested in building quality equipment at fair prices and are willing to walk the talk with 5 year warranties.
 
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#164
I do component-level installations of bass preamps, but the components are big - no microscope needed. On some installs there are 35 to 50 solder connections that have to be made. It's a good thing I have good near vision. I still wouldn't want to replace a 1mm-long resistor on a PCB, though. I've mentioned before that I used to do PCB layouts before it was done by computer. That was mind-numbing work.
 
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#165
As a TV engineer I would do component level repairs right through the 80's, 90's and early 2000's, in those days people payed a lot of money for their equipment and were very happy to pay for a repair. Since then I'm ashamed to say I've become a bit of a panel changer because it's often quicker and cheaper for the customers and it makes the difference between me keeping or losing a repair job. In some cases it's safer to panel change, for instance a run of 50" Samsungs have suffered with Y-sus / buffer failures, usually caused by one or two off value capacitors, the component failure spreads like wildfire through both panels. It can take all morning to replace two buffer chips but if you miss just one component on the Y-Sus it all goes again, so it's much safer to just replace the panels. Recently I had a forty year old hi fi receiver brought in for repair, the owner even had the schematic, which had been supplied with the instruction manual when new. He knew he had a nice piece of kit and was happy to pay for my time to repair it, it also gave me pleasure to work on something that had been designed and built properly. I actually feel sorry for the kids these days that boast of the great sound they get from their Mp3's!
 
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#166
To clarify, there are products designed for board level replacements because it is less costly to do the repair that way (usually because of level of sophistication and component integration) but IMO it's not true of most bass amp products other than the SMPS or class D sections.

Other circuit blocks that I have designed in the past to be replaceable are DSP modules and VCA modules, again because the failure rates are very low (like 1 module will fail per 5000 amps for a VCA, and 1 module per 2500 amps for a DSP over a likely 20 year product life cycle.)

At these failure rates, and for a replacement module cost of about $30, it makes no sense to spend even 30 minutes running the diagnostics.
 
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#167
We will see in 20 years whether replacement parts are available for the micro versions of Genz Benz, MarkBass, GK, etc..... In 2067 will anyone be repairing their vintage LMIII? I seriously doubt it.

In the old days designers did their best to make things last forever, these days everything has an obsolescence date. Just think in 20 years when Jimmy is 90 he will have his grandson schlepping around his 69 SVT still. :D

I have recently made the move away from Micros and back to mid sized amps. I just cant shake this feeling that in a couple years if my micro fails I will be up a creek. I do not have the kind of disposable income that most around here seem to have, or I have different priorities. There seems to be a constant circle of dump yesterdays news, and buy the next new "thing." I must confess I have done my fair share of this but I'm wanting to get off the gear go round. Not that I have any higher ground to stand on, I just want off.
 
#168
Red Planet said:
...In the old days designers did their best to make things last forever....
Click to expand...

I think that those designers built things the easiest, quickest way possible to be cost effective. They built with whatever was available.. tubes, then transisters.. my old Peavey Bass head is probably really similar to a tube amp except with honking big power transistors on a giant aluminum heat sink.. giant transformer etc. All the electronics were pretty much point to point because that was the only way they knew how to do it... I think if they could have saved 75% on labor by surface mounting small components and attaching the pots to the boards etc. I give the old pioneering engineers a lot of credit, but I don't think this is one of them. :)
 
#169
In 2067 chances are good tubes won't be produced either and these large electronic parts that repair tube and "heavy iron" amps will be a thing of the past. Look at the cost of copper alone for winding transformers. Someone may "print" something that is supposed to be that day's versions, but will likely pale in the process. Obsolescence is obsolescence, "tube" production barely hangs on today. Winged =C= anyone?
 
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#170
B-string said:
In 2067 chances are good tubes won't be produced either and these large electronic parts that repair tube and "heavy iron" amps will be a thing of the past. Look at the cost of copper alone for winding transformers. Someone may "print" something that is supposed to be that day's versions, but will likely pale in the process. Obsolescence is obsolescence, "tube" production barely hangs on today. Winged =C= anyone?
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah? We could go super old-school and attach giant acoustic guidehorns to our bass strings like the old gramophones. Those don't take any parts, so they can never go obsolete!

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#171
I think tubes and transformers will always be available to those who want them. There will always be a market. Smaller, but there. It doesn't take much infrastructure to make either. People still ride horses and always will. Doesn't make practical sense but they like it.
 
#173
David Jayne said:
I think tubes and transformers will always be available to those who want them. There will always be a market. Smaller, but there. It doesn't take much infrastructure to make either.
Click to expand...
To make tubes in a country that has environmental laws does require a big infrastructure and thereby expensive. That's the main reason production went to lawless environmental disaster "killing the locals is OK" type regions of the world :( .
 
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#174
RoadRanger said:
To make tubes in a country that has environmental laws does require a big infrastructure and thereby expensive. That's the main reason production went to lawless environmental disaster "killing the locals is OK" type regions of the world :( .
Click to expand...
No. There's a tiny bit of barium in a vacuum tube. No environmental disaster. Florescent tubes contain mercury. They're everywhere and nobody's screaming about those.
Wanna talk environmental impact? Look into Neo production.
 
#176
Yes the base of cathode coating is thorium oxide. Other alkaline compounds have been used that are sure no safer.

http://science.energy.gov/~/media/nbl/pdf/price-lists/SDS/SDS-Thorium_Oxide_Impurity_Standard.pdf

If you don't want to read the document here is a snip:
OSHA Hazards Toxic by inhalation, toxic by ingestion, toxic by skin absorption, may cause cancer. Target Organs Blood, kidneys, liver, lungs, bone marrow, reproductive system.

Nothing bad there, smoke'm if you got'm boys.
 
#178
B string - that is an MSDS intended for those who may handle large amounts. It simply does not apply to folks like you and I who will never see it. The material is used in bulk, in this country for a variety of uses. How about beryllium? Race car brakes are often made of it. Highly toxic. But nobody freaks out about it. The makers just use caution and common sense.
 
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#180
The problem is that on the manufacturer's side, it's very costly from the regulatory perspective. There's lots of stuff like this that's not a bid deal until you try to get permits to purchase, store, and manufacture with.
Even something as simple sounding as spraying cabinets or chassis with "real" paint is a lot more costly here than in many developing nations... spray booth permit costs in CA are eye opening, you have to spray a lot of cabinets to make it pencil out. Multiply it by a large factor to handle materials such as Thorium, Neodymium, etc. That's why none of it is done here anymore.

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