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Modern micro amps - disposable?

#223
Aragorn35016 said:
Oh I absolutely agree, I work in field to where some of the boards I work on may have in upwards of 20K worth of components on them, so it makes sense to have highly trained people repair to component level to not scrap a card. I'm not suggesting that the companies themselves invest in those people for component level repair, but the run of the mill repair guy external with some basic training and exp, could remove and replace every SMT part in that pic in about an hour with some pretty basic tooling. He doesn't necessarily need to charge hundreds of dollars for a repair, that would in turn make the amp "disposable" I guess I'm just tying to emphasize to those that are a little scared of the SMT world that its really not all that bad to learn to do for most of the components that are used in these amps. The only thing that may make it challenging is if the manufacturer went cheap on the boards and the pads start lifting, but even that is repairable.
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I'm halfway through the post, so I may be repeating this point: more and more companies are going cheap and not building products to last. If a circuit calls for a 1w resistor, then the cheapest 1w is used, so that resistor has to work at 100%, all the time. I was taught growing up that an engineer would design something to work, And back up the key components, AND back up the backups. I haven't heard many complaints of over-engineered Chinese goods.

Could partially explain the reluctance to pay for bridge repairs - that rock-solid design will cost more.
 
#224
My first amp was a little Gorilla guitar amp. It fell off the top shelf and cracked the enclosure. The amp still worked. I sold it years later, in working condition.

Compare that to a home stereo amp/receiver I bought last year. It sounded awesome for about 2 days before it went silent.
 
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#226
DrummerwStrings said:
I'm halfway through the post, so I may be repeating this point: more and more companies are going cheap and not building products to last. If a circuit calls for a 1w resistor, then the cheapest 1w is used, so that resistor has to work at 100%, all the time. I was taught growing up that an engineer would design something to work, And back up the key components, AND back up the backups. I haven't heard many complaints of over-engineered Chinese goods.
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This may be true of some companies, but it's certainly not an accurate portrayal of all companies. There are plenty of examples of thoroughly engineered and executed bass amps on the market IMO.
 
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#227
That's where design comes in. The circuit doesn't call for anything. The engineer specifies the resistor and does so with overhead if he's worth his weight in salt. 1/4 watt resistor will get warm at 1/4 watt. That's not to say they don't make an occasional error, which get corrected in production. Never buy first year model cars! For that matter, cars do not apply to this discussion. :D
 
#228
agedhorse said:
This may be true of some companies, but it's certainly not an accurate portrayal of all companies. There are plenty of examples of thoroughly engineered and executed bass amps on the market IMO.
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Agreed. That's why I said "more & more" and not "all". I appreciate the companies that make quality products, give good customer service, & care about their communities (actually do what their Articles of Incorporation says). & why I don't spend time in Walmart.
 
#232
toddbooster said:
So, I've been thinking. I have an old GK 400RB, the last of the original series born in January 1990. It looks like it's been thrown down a few flights of stairs in it's life, and probably been run over by a tractor at least once, but it works a treat. I also know that I can always find someone who can repair it and maintain it so that it will easily last another 26 years.

I also purchased an MB Fusion this year. Great little amp, but I seriously wonder if it'll be around and still being gigged in a few decades. I feel like these new micro amps are a bit like modern TVs, in that the first time they break, they'll just be garbage. It makes me a little sad.

Discuss!

Edited to add: Out of warranty obviously, after several years of useful life, due to age related wear.
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I've had both of the amps you describe. Here is the single biggest difference: I could fix the 400RB. I cannot fix the MB200. And lord, I DID fix the 400 a few times (blown caps / loose solder joint / broken power cable). So I'd say that older, pre-class D amps are much more serviceable - but a class D amp is less likely to have some of the issues an old amp is.

Also - my MB200 sounded better than my 400RB. More dynamic range - and the MB200 is *not* known for its broad range, right?
 
#233
Scottkarch said:
I think that those designers built things the easiest, quickest way possible to be cost effective. They built with whatever was available.. tubes, then transisters.. my old Peavey Bass head is probably really similar to a tube amp except with honking big power transistors on a giant aluminum heat sink.. giant transformer etc. All the electronics were pretty much point to point because that was the only way they knew how to do it... I think if they could have saved 75% on labor by surface mounting small components and attaching the pots to the boards etc. I give the old pioneering engineers a lot of credit, but I don't think this is one of them. :)
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It's more: old-school engineers did more than the bare minimum. Part of it is how you look at a situation: if you're focused on the sale, then you might do what someone in an earlier post said about Dell - make something that will barely work past the lawful warranty. If you include in your costs the life cycle of your product, and the cost of disposing of it, you may decide to spend the extra $20 to install quality components, and hopefully your Marketing Dept. can explain why your customers should pay 2 shekels more. The disposable economy doesn't add up once you include the cost of disposing hazardous materials to the cost of the product, let alone of the corruption & the actual $ of acquiring the materials to make the components. One thing I do remember from Econ 101 is look at your total costs, & if you do then building things to last, the Old-school engineer's way, makes a lot of sense even today.

However, I see too many customers chase a penny, and companies feel pressure to shave as much off the sticker price as they can.

Sometimes you get what what you ask for.
 
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#234
B-string said:
In 2067 chances are good tubes won't be produced either and these large electronic parts that repair tube and "heavy iron" amps will be a thing of the past. Look at the cost of copper alone for winding transformers. Someone may "print" something that is supposed to be that day's versions, but will likely pale in the process. Obsolescence is obsolescence, "tube" production barely hangs on today. Winged =C= anyone?
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Some academics & consultants calculated that 25 years ago there was more copper above ground in pipes & wires than in the ground, which just increased the value of the copper mines.
 
#235
David Jayne said:
B string - that is an MSDS intended for those who may handle large amounts. It simply does not apply to folks like you and I who will never see it. The material is used in bulk, in this country for a variety of uses. How about beryllium? Race car brakes are often made of it. Highly toxic. But nobody freaks out about it. The makers just use caution and common sense.
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But how do the brake manufacturers get the raw materials? Just because no one freaks out about it doesn't mean I want a 8 year old kid to go down a hole in the Congo and scrape a rock with a cup.
 
#237
On the subject of valve manufacturing and environmental regulations, what about JJ in Slovakia? Since 2004 Slovakia has been in the European Union which has strictly applied environmental standards for industry and they seem to still be a viable business which has grown over the past decade. It's not a country where anything goes for industry.
 
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#240
SanDiegoHarry said:
I've had both of the amps you describe. Here is the single biggest difference: I could fix the 400RB. I cannot fix the MB200. And lord, I DID fix the 400 a few times (blown caps / loose solder joint / broken power cable). So I'd say that older, pre-class D amps are much more serviceable - but a class D amp is less likely to have some of the issues an old amp is.

Also - my MB200 sounded better than my 400RB. More dynamic range - and the MB200 is *not* known for its broad range, right?
Click to expand...

For the record, the MB Fusion sounds better to me than the 400RB too. I find the 400RB is astoundingly good when played "bloody loud". However, I almost never get to play "bloody loud", so it mostly just sits around these days.

EDIT: I should mention too that it's funny that this thread is still generating interest, since I don't even have the MB Fusion any more; I bought a Markbass CMD 121p combo to fullfill my light and loud requirements. So I guess there's the answer; I'm too fickle to keep anything long enough any more to worry about it breaking down!
 

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