Modern Worship - Anything but the part

[bwildt]

This is the thing. The vocals, lyrics and message, are the point of the song in PW.

I hope I'm not ruffling the feathers of church musicians, but this^, in my view. Music in a worship service should enable an entire congregation singing praises to God and singing encouragement to each other. Songs should be theologically sound, easy for people to sing, and in a key that most of the congregation can handle. Save the more complex stuff for concerts or listening outside of a church service.

 

[L-u-A-R]

By 'modern worship' - I assume you mean contempory christian music (CCM)
Okay - so:

...I'm still expecting musicians to serve this song and not their own interests.

Absolutely.

...learn the parts as recorded and then go from there...

Very important to know the original, get the feel down.
From there, we can safely branch out while still serving the song and working with bandmates.
I wouldn't say 'parts as recorded'. Consider that there can be multiple parts to learn as recorded (not just your own instrument). This can be a silly amount of work for volunteers who have day jobs. Full-time, different story.
Also, songs can have been covered in multiple ways by multiple groups.

So, I agree on some main thrusts here...
However, I want to offer a 'but'.

---

Consider one extreme. Should we play the original song exactly as recorded?
Definitely not. It will be at best a copy. At that point, just play an original recording.
Never mind that many CCM songs are more than a full band.

I would also say, anyone who would only play an exact copy, when not required to, is creatively bankrupt.
It is completely possible to break the mould and still serve the song.

On the other side (but not other extreme), if the whole band is comfortable with playing freely, sans click and track, it can give the lead flexibility to change things up in a dynamic way, the rest of us are able to follow impromptu.
Additionally, you're able to more easily work with lower skill players, as the experienced players can pick up some slack as newbies essentially learn to jam along. This lets a worship team double as a training platform. This is not possible if you're trying to replicate a specific version along with multitracks.

Strictly speaking, genuine worship doesn't need any instruments at all.
This also means there are many possibilities aside from copying some specific version of a song.

Regarding overplay:
Good musicians know when and how to 'overplay' in a given context, there's nothing wrong with it in P&W (implied: if it's not working, they're not good).
Sometimes discussions of not 'showing off' or 'overplaying' seem to veer towards, "We can't have good musicians!", which is laughable.

---

Honestly, CCM can be incredibly boring. Maybe because of the derivative/copying nature of it.
The music itself might be a part of the problem here.
Maybe the songs have driven people towards contempt.

There are additional comments and complications, and I have veered away from the original topic.
I'll end with this humble opinion (keep in mind that I assume musicians who serve the song and are not interested in showmanship):

Worship musicians should be genuine, you're not genuine if you're copying some 'original'.
I, for one, appreciate even an honest but amateur rendition over 'expert' rote copying any day.
Why not have something at least a little different? Most non-musicians don't care if it's the same or not, as long as it works.

 

[hrodbert696]

LOL so true confession, I may be the kind of worship bassist the OP is complaining about.

As far as "play the part on the page in front of me" - the page in front of me is a lyric sheet with chords. Whatever I play is interpreting that, which as far as I can tell leaves me pretty free. Most of my playing is outlining those chords - 1-3-5, root-5th-octave, maybe turnaround up around the 9th and back, at different points on the neck. I alternate Sundays with the other bassist who is more comfortable with country and mostly plays root-5th-root-5th.

I don't listen to worship music in my own time. When I try listening to a track for reference, I often can't hear too much of a specific bass part, unless it's just hanging whole-note roots. I could do that, but besides me being bored, the keyboardist has a left hand; no one has ever said they want me to do that.

People comment favorably on my playing - not only folk in the congregation, but also the choir director, who asks me to play with the choir sometimes and is a stickler for doing things right. From others, I have mixed feelings about compliments - I want people's attention in worship to be on the worship, not on me. I try to aim for playing choices that will be felt rather than heard - to give the song some energy or a lift, or to ease it down into calm, as needed. I feel like it's always a delicate balance, to use the gifts I can bring to the instrument fully while not hijacking the song to be about me.

 

[scuzzy]

That seems to be "the part" in FAR too many worship songs these days. The 32 bar tom tom build is in everything, and it really needs to die.

i play drums every once in a while at my church. my motto (that has saved me more times than I can count) is, when in doubt, build. The 4-on-the-floor/tribal toms with snare on 4 thing is really getting old

 

[bigjames]

I mostly play worship music these days and am fortunate enough to play with a couple different churches.

While I am grateful for the opportunity to play, I'm noticing a disturbing trend developing...

Over the last few years I've encountered an increasing number of players, (especially drummers and Keyboards) that are seemingly doing everything in their power to not play the actual parts of the song, and the entire endeavor has become an exercise in how far outside the changes, riffs, rhythms they can play without completely derailing the song.

I did a service last weekend, and I don't think the drummer played a straight beat once the entire day. It sounded like two drummers log rolling each other.

The keyboardist did not miss an opportunity for throwing out alternate chords, light speed riffs and non-Sequitur chromatic changes that were more an exercise of gospelesque fringe theory than something musical that made sense for the song.

The whole day was dueling keyboard and drum solos where hints of a song occasionally broke out.

Is this just musicians expressing their boredom with milquetoast modern worship songs, some strange contempt for the music they're playing, or just a lack of self control and discipline?

I know a lot of gospel players will push things to the fringe sometimes, but doing so in a tasteful way where they're occasionally playing outside of the changes, phrases and patterns is done as a flourish to add character....but this stuff lately seems like it's playing in contempt of the songs.

Yes, a lot of modern worship music is very vanilla and not thrilling to play, but in my crazy mind, I'm still expecting musicians to serve this song and not their own interests.

Found myself reduced to playing whole notes almost the entire time in the hopes that the vocalists and the congregation would have the slightest idea of what the heck we were doing.

Anyone else experiencing this?

[Venting complete]

In my experience, this is due to a number of factors that will vary from worship band to worship band: First, musicianship in these (usually volunteer) bands is often lacking so people will overplay if they can; sort of serving themselves rather than serving the song as the OP said. Second, it is not a paid gig most of the time, so there is a less serious approach to the music, which also contributes to people overplaying and not serving the song. My other pet peeve with church bands (after playing in three or four of them over about 30 years) is the lack of practice and preparation.

 

[hrodbert696]

By 'modern worship' - I assume you mean contempory christian music (CCM)
Okay - so:

Absolutely.

Very important to know the original, get the feel down.
From there, we can safely branch out while still serving the song and working with bandmates.
I wouldn't say 'parts as recorded'. Consider that there can be multiple parts to learn as recorded (not just your own instrument). This can be a silly amount of work for volunteers who have day jobs. Full-time, different story.
Also, songs can have been covered in multiple ways by multiple groups.

So, I agree on some main thrusts here...
However, I want to offer a 'but'.

---

Consider one extreme. Should we play the original song exactly as recorded?
Definitely not. It will be at best a copy. At that point, just play an original recording.
Never mind that many CCM songs are more than a full band.

I would also say, anyone who would only play an exact copy, when not required to, is creatively bankrupt.
It is completely possible to break the mould and still serve the song.

On the other side (but not other extreme), if the whole band is comfortable with playing freely, sans click and track, it can give the lead flexibility to change things up in a dynamic way, the rest of us are able to follow impromptu.
Additionally, you're able to more easily work with lower skill players, as the experienced players can pick up some slack as newbies essentially learn to jam along. This lets a worship team double as a training platform. This is not possible if you're trying to replicate a specific version along with multitracks.

Strictly speaking, genuine worship doesn't need any instruments at all.
This also means there are many possibilities aside from copying some specific version of a song.

Regarding overplay:
Good musicians know when and how to 'overplay' in a given context, there's nothing wrong with it in P&W (implied: if it's not working, they're not good).
Sometimes discussions of not 'showing off' or 'overplaying' seem to veer towards, "We can't have good musicians!", which is laughable.

---

Honestly, CCM can be incredibly boring. Maybe because of the derivative/copying nature of it.
The music itself might be a part of the problem here.
Maybe the songs have driven people towards contempt.

There are additional comments and complications, and I have veered away from the original topic.
I'll end with this humble opinion (keep in mind that I assume musicians who serve the song and are not interested in showmanship):

Worship musicians should be genuine, you're not genuine if you're copying some 'original'.
I, for one, appreciate even an honest but amateur rendition over 'expert' rote copying any day.
Why not have something at least a little different? Most non-musicians don't care if it's the same or not, as long as it works.

Just a minor nitpick, but CCM and modern worship music are two different animals.

CCM is largely dead these days. It was an industry model from the 70s-90s headlining folks like Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, GLAD, Petra, Phil Keaggy, Newsboys and so on. It was a project to create an alternative Christian pop culture to compete with (and insulate young audiences from) secular music of the era. It was distributed mainly through Christian bookstores (all-purpose culture stores, really - they featured music, posters, home decorations and doodads as much as books). The stores would get a "substitution list" from record companies like Myrrh and Dove indicating what CCM artist to sell to suburban moms to wean their kids off secular music. Your teen is listening to Van Halen or Led Zeppelin? Give them Petra, or Stryper. Madonna? Give them Amy Grant. And so on.

CCM was killed by the internet, the decline of those chains of stores (some are still around), and revolt among the artists themselves. Stryper wanted to be taken seriously as a metal band in their own right, not just ersatz safe-for-Sunday-School-kids Dokken. Amy Grant went pop. Sixpence None the Richer and Switchfoot demanded to be marketed as bands for the general public who happened to be Christians, not "Christian bands."

Worship music is what arose to replace and displace CCM from Christian radio. It came out of the church growth movement of the 90s, that took more of a deliberate, self-conscious demographic marketing approach to religion. Part of that was to repackage church with appealing contemporary music rather than musty old stuff out of hymnals (with an occasional Amy Grant anthem for "special music" during communion or the offering). The big suburban megachurches that arose had the resources to produce and market music that served their ethos, and that's what's been dominating both religious radio and contemporary worship services for the last couple of decades, music out of operations like Elevation and Hillsong, that then filters down to small-to-medium sized churches like mine.

 

[jthisdell]

I used to sub in an acoustic, contemporary service, it was all about restraint and playing as cleanly as possible with zero noise between songs. It was a good learning experience.

 

[dazmond]

Does interesting, more musically complex praise/worship that can still be simply sung by a congregation exist? I actually enjoyed listening and playing some praise music back in the 2000-2010 era of hillsong united. Maybe not all intended for settings/congregations, but it seemed like the instrumentation actually had some life behind it. I really do try to serve the song but sometimes I'm guilty of overplaying due to boredom. Good thing is it doesn't get too far out of hand as I'm a pretty average player . Definitely have some members use the music team as their rock band as they've never played in a band outside of the church setting. Slightly guilty of that as well....it can still be fun to play live music right?

 

[djmay]

I stopped playing "modern" church worship years ago. It became mainly a show to get "butts in the seats." Recently, I listened to a choir in the Ulm Cathedral, accompanied by a traditional pipe organ. It was heavenly.

Bach + ensemble + choir = worship. J.S. Bach was employed as a church music director. Imagine if your church had someone like him.

 

[gln1955]

The best music we play on Sundays has a heavy Celtic influence. It's certainly not complex, but it has some life and everyone gets into it. Our MD is good at finding these tunes.

 

[Johnny Fingers]

I once was in a worship group where the guitar player did wild soloing the whole time. Every song.
Fortunately his volume stayed very low and the house nipped him out. Nobody seemed to notice or care.

 

[nozkcb]

For context sake when I reference “modern worship music” it would basically be anything you'd hear on K-Love, Hillsong, Elevation, etc.

While it's collectively disappointing, it's good to know I'm not the only one who has encountered this.

Thanks to those who shared their own experiences and perspectives.

I’m not sure there's much I can do as a volunteer player other than make suggestions. . . if and when I stick around long enough to have a candid conversation on the topic with them. I honestly don’t know that I have the patience to endure much more of this.

FWIW, I was a bandleader for a few years, but after managing people at work M-F, the last thing I wanted to do was manage players and singers at church on a Sunday. I resigned from that role as soon as a good replacement was found.

I guess I was blessed that pretty much everyone at that time were solid musicians and they required very little direction.

I’ve been playing in churches for almost 20 years now and have seen the good, the bad and the not so pretty when it comes to worship musicians and groups. The barely able to play, but enthusiastic volunteers, to the super talented and usually paid pros, to the chop masters who see every song (“How great thou art”) as a canvas for their new drum solo…..

This latest scourge of music chaos seems to be more a product of serving self-interests, a lack of musical maturity, and not necessarily a lack of mechanical chops.

 

[NickyBass]

One of the issues we have to overcome is that the congregation will have some limitations. While I could follow the WL if he wants to add an extra bridge before the final chorus based on visual and musical cues, the congregation probably won't--and the person running the slides might not. So, you get some of the people in worship, but a lot of them are confused why the slides don't match up. I have heard comments about how some worship teams are harder to follow. Often times it has to do with key choice. Most people don't have the range that the WL does, so a lot has to be taken into consideration. In certain instances, we have to balance between being creative but also leading the congregation.
Yesterday we did Great Are You Lord. We decided to do it on bass synth (Moog) and e-drums up to the bridge. Then after the bridge, I kicked on an octave and heavy drive. So, we were able to take a song that has been sung in our church a hundred times and make it fresh while still giving the congregation something that they were comfortable with. I think the arrangement worked well in a worship setting.

 

[NickyBass]

For context sake when I reference “modern worship music” it would basically be anything you'd hear on K-Love, Hillsong, Elevation, etc.

While it's collectively disappointing, it's good to know I'm not the only one who has encountered this.

Thanks to those who shared their own experiences and perspectives.

I’m not sure there's much I can do as a volunteer player other than make suggestions. . . if and when I stick around long enough to have a candid conversation on the topic with them. I honestly don’t know that I have the patience to endure much more of this.

FWIW, I was a bandleader for a few years, but after managing people at work M-F, the last thing I wanted to do was manage players and singers at church on a Sunday. I resigned from that role as soon as a good replacement was found.

I guess I was blessed that pretty much everyone at that time were solid musicians and they required very little direction.

I’ve been playing in churches for almost 20 years now and have seen the good, the bad and the not so pretty when it comes to worship musicians and groups. The barely able to play, but enthusiastic volunteers, to the super talented and usually paid pros, to the chop masters who see every song (“How great thou art”) as a canvas for their new drum solo…..

This latest scourge of music chaos seems to be more a product of serving self-interests, a lack of musical maturity, and not necessarily a lack of mechanical chops.

Sorry, I don't have any direct advise. It can be frustrating. It's a shame because when it's done right, it can be a very rewarding experience. Are there other churches in the area that would be a better fit?

 

[Low Key]

I am also a "retiree" of modern worship services. I saw 2 problems, on opposite end of the spectrum.

First were the musicians the OP described. Just constant self-indulgence on their instruments, which weakened the power of the music being produced. Just a complete lack of professional maturity.

On the other end of the spectrum was the trend to use heavy recorded tracks, which dictated the musicians to play an exact part. We could not use any level of spontaneity or style in the song. I was once lectured for playing passing notes into the next chord! This trend was also disappointing and produced a very vanilla, formulaic experience for attenders. I finally stepped down and freed up my spot, reasoning that any high school bassist could follow along with the tracks and build up their own live playing experience.

 

[rjmsteel]

I am also not observing playing like you’re experiencing. I`ve been doing P& W for a very LONG time and generally have been surrounded by good to great players and vocalists.

Over the past decade, (or close to it) everyone at the church I`m on the Worship Team at are pro musicians at least on the instrumentalist's level. Vocalists usually in a volunteer setting are pretty good or semi-pro.

On the subject of learning any new material, (aside from playing many of the Worship songs repeatedly for years), I really never listen to the material ahead of time, for the most part, and definitely never "rehearse" the bass lines off of Song Select or other PC options because there is NO point.

With 3-4 different drummers, (who are semi-pro or fully pro players), I simply encounter each drummer to technically play the song differently each time a rotation of said drummers occurs. One may land the kick in a different spot or all of a sudden play 4 on the floor on each beat, etc., etc.

I find it best to simply use my ears, read the chord chart of the video screen and play within the context of the song requirements AND throw in articulate, melodic and fast - multi note runs as the opportunity allows, all the while keeping a close ear on what the drummer is doing.

Most of what I`ll embellish on during service is what I have gleaned from/ learned from what rhythms the drummer is dealing during Pre-Service rehearsal the morning of Sunday service.

In the times of a longer evening event, we have a mid-week rehearsal where I can fine tune more of what we will be doing. Those events are by far less frequent than Sunday morning rehearsal/Services.

Anyway, that is how I view it and it works very well for me.

RJM.

 

[turf3]

Well, I'll probably get in trouble for this, but once you have this:



or this:



or this:



I fail to see why you'd bother with this:

 

[pete rallis]

Our church music is pretty straightforward Country music…with an occasional waltz thrown in..every song is done in that style, and yes it is boring. keys change with the singers, verses are left out, and the song books we use are pitifully copied from who knows where. We don’t use a screen and it probably is a good thing considering..a couple of the band members seem to be all about the “show”, and generally forget why we are there. Our drummer hates playing drums. Which is good, because he just does a simple beat. Saying anything at all will just cause hard feelings. Basically I play bass trying to do it for right reason which is worship God, and try to support the music…

 

[L-u-A-R]

Just a minor nitpick, but CCM and modern worship music are two different animals.

CCM is largely dead these days. It was an industry model from the 70s-90s headlining folks like Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, GLAD, Petra, Phil Keaggy, Newsboys and so on. It was a project to create an alternative Christian pop culture to compete with (and insulate young audiences from) secular music of the era. It was distributed mainly through Christian bookstores (all-purpose culture stores, really - they featured music, posters, home decorations and doodads as much as books). The stores would get a "substitution list" from record companies like Myrrh and Dove indicating what CCM artist to sell to suburban moms to wean their kids off secular music. Your teen is listening to Van Halen or Led Zeppelin? Give them Petra, or Stryper. Madonna? Give them Amy Grant. And so on.

CCM was killed by the internet, the decline of those chains of stores (some are still around), and revolt among the artists themselves. Stryper wanted to be taken seriously as a metal band in their own right, not just ersatz safe-for-Sunday-School-kids Dokken. Amy Grant went pop. Sixpence None the Richer and Switchfoot demanded to be marketed as bands for the general public who happened to be Christians, not "Christian bands."

Worship music is what arose to replace and displace CCM from Christian radio. It came out of the church growth movement of the 90s, that took more of a deliberate, self-conscious demographic marketing approach to religion. Part of that was to repackage church with appealing contemporary music rather than musty old stuff out of hymnals (with an occasional Amy Grant anthem for "special music" during communion or the offering). The big suburban megachurches that arose had the resources to produce and market music that served their ethos, and that's what's been dominating both religious radio and contemporary worship services for the last couple of decades, music out of operations like Elevation and Hillsong, that then filters down to small-to-medium sized churches like mine.

Interesting, thanks for the education.

What I'm talking about is indeed modern worship music then, although I do apply my perspective more broadly than that.

 

[Turnaround]

When a player starts going over the top, especially in Gospel, I wonder if it's serving their ego rather than serving the music, or in this case serving worship.