Modern Worship - Anything but the part

[FretRiff]

Over the last few years I've encountered an increasing number of players, (especially drummers and Keyboards) that are seemingly doing everything in their power to not play the actual parts of the song, and the entire endeavor has become an exercise in how far outside the changes, riffs, rhythms they can play without completely derailing the song.

Some musicians get bored with simplicity, some don't want ot be overlooked, some 'progress' into progressive 'chops culture' to deconstruct and rebuild songs.

Peter Hook has heard complaints about how since he's left, New Order currently has changed a lot of classic songs live, including ones dependent on his chorus-filled bass riffs, even reducing the sound of the bass in songs. "They don't sound anything like them. I've watched them play songs [online] recently, and they've dropped the basslines and play it like some weird, bad cover version of a New Order track."

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

Modern megachurch music is some of the most malignantly boring, flavorless content ever devised, and it was engineered that way, like someone said earlier. Some are saying "it's about the message" but this is largely and anti-intellectualist argument. There is a long history of complex religious art (the Sistine chapel and Bach) and the pervasive myth that demonstration of skill is the opposite of sincerity is still made from some imaginary moral high ground.

I played in a megachurch a while ago. It's not about the music, it's not about the message, it's about reinforcing the ego of some greasy haired over-payed "worship leader" and hitting the emotional beats. Everyone who's done time in those bands knows this. When the band modulates on the third chorus, people will stand up, predictably, wave their hands etcetera. Just like at a Coldplay show.

A lot of musicians don't have anywhere else to play, and if they have any genuine creativity that hasn't been disintegrated by by innumerable I-IV-vi-V's, they try to keep themselves interested and venture outside the institution's malevolent vanilla.

Worship replaced CCM/christian rock because of one very important reason- cash. 20 years ago, Skillet, Newsboys, Third-day and etc all saw the writing on the wall and switched formats.

I will keep any of my religious views out of this discussion, but am happy to express them via dm.

 

[turf3]

"You're not making Christianity better, you're just making rock and roll worse."

- Hank Hill

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Bottom line that is what separates the pros from the amateurs. Pros play for the music or what is placed in front of them. Amateurs play for themselves!

And that is major problematic if one is playing for their own gratification.

 

[fretlessman71]

I was always taught that we musicians are there to serve. Serve God, serve the congregation, serve the song, serve the message. Our personal musical interests are tertiary at best. The moment you're not serving others in this setting, you are a distraction to those who came to worship.

 

[hrodbert696]

Interesting, thanks for the education.

What I'm talking about is indeed modern worship music then, although I do apply my perspective more broadly than that.

I only just recently discovered the distinction recently myself. I grew up on Amy Grant and stuff, and kind of thought of what I started playing in church five years ago as continuous with that. Then I picked up a book on the history of CCM and learned a lot of the market-structure stuff, which was very interesting. I would have called worship music "CCM" until a year or two ago.

 

[Church-Bass]

Ultimately, with a worship service, it's less about the musicians and the band, and all about leading the congregation into the presence of God.

If playing tightly together gets them there, great. If playing loosely does the same thing, great. I guess there's never a single formula, it depends on the context, and ultimately, on the leading of the Holy Spirit.

 

[FretRiff]

Names mean nothing.

Disco went underground in the US after a rockist assault on it, splintered into subgenres like House and dance-pop (Madonna!) and years later reclaimed its name and popularity (which never disappeared in Europe).

And Punk is just rock and roll.

 

[hrodbert696]

It occurs to me that my church records its livestream, so I'm curious if the OP or anyone would feel that I'm overplaying this stuff. Watch Worship Services — Bethany Covenant Church - most recent service I was in is October 5. There are songs starting about 5 minutes, 11:30, around 22:00, and then a few minutes before the end. Bass is not super prominent in the mix but I think it's audible.

I'll be honest, without getting into the religion/spirituality per se of it all; I'm not a big fan of the structure of the modern religious music world. It's a sphere where a handful of megachurches serve as content creators that dictate the popular music getting played in lots of churches down the food chain - many of which don't share the exact same views as those megachurches, but they get their messaging embedded in the music because, like in a cover band, it's what the listeners expect to hear.

Even so, there are some individual songs and creators out of that world that I am rather fond of. Shane and Shane's version of "All the Poor and Powerless" is a great song, and I really like The Blessing that came out just before Covid hit. Part of that latter one may be that the lyrics are drawn from scripture and from Irish "lorica" type prayers, so there's a richer cultural tradition behind it than is the case of most current worship music.





And FYI, when we play "The Blessing," tastefulness be damned. By the end of it I'm jamming like mad.

 

[g-dude]

Folks probably should lighten up a bit - no need to be the modern incarnation of the Puritans!

If someone is doing something other than just pounding out roots, it doesn't mean it's about their ego - they might just be having a good time and enjoying themselves.

I saw Julian Lage perform recently. He was positively shredding at times, and he had the biggest smile on his face - but it wasn't about ego at all. The guy is a musical prodigy and has nothing to prove. He was just pushing himself, working hard, and having the time of his life.

Go ahead, throw in that extra fill. Do some double stops. Use glissandos.

Make some joyful noise.

 

[Guitalia]

This is the thing. The vocals, lyrics and message, are the point of the song in PW. If the vocalists or congregation (for sing-alongs) or both are getting lost rhythmically or harmonically because of the free expression of the drummer and keys, that is a big problem.

On the other hand, if they're not getting lost (and the OP has not said they are), what's the harm? I'd serve the song on bass by simplifying my lines to provide an anchor for the vocalists, which is evidently what the OP has been doing. It might take me a while to get used to that approach, but if it works, it works.

 

[KJMO]

Id have to hear it to have an opinion.

 

[nozkcb]

And that is major problematic if one is playing for their own gratification.

The longer I think about this, the more I believe this is more at more than anything else the root of the problem.

I'm sure there's an element related to spirituality, inadequate direction from the MD, formulaic milquetoast Christian music from the industry $$$....

but at a individual level, I think it's mostly serving ego over song

Years ago a friend of mine developed a bell curve based theory describing Music maturity and professionalism with musicians

The beginning of the curve is what you think it would be

the peak of the bell was developed skills and lack of self-control (this is where a lot of these players seem to be)

The end of the curve is developed skills AND the refined sensibility of knowing when to and when NOT to use monster chops

with great power (chops) comes great responsibility etc. etc.

 

[hrodbert696]

Id have to hear it to have an opinion.

Valid. I linked our church service in a previous post (#49). One of the songs we did is "Gracefully Broken." It starts at 11:28 (Watch Worship Services — Bethany Covenant Church. Go to the October 5 service.

Here's the oldest version of it I saw on Youtube, I assume it's the "original":


So basically, the way our worship pastor chooses to play it on her acoustic, there's pretty much no way I could play "the part" from the original recording. There's very little there, I guess some pumping quarter note roots, but that's it. I don't know if she knows some other version she's working from, or just does it her own way. No one in the congregation seems to have any difficulty with it.

 

[NickyBass]

I kind of like some of the modern worship music. Now, the industry, that's another story, but there are a lot of songs that are fun to play. That could be said about a lot of genres, though I understand why it's more critical for worship music. I sub with a different WL who picks more traditional songs--the ones where there is a chord change on almost every syllable. Those aren't as fun to play. But, boredom is contagious. If one player is phoning it in, it can affect the whole band. There's no reason that even simple, basic songs can't be played to the best of the bands ability.
I played in a secular band and the drummer had a poor attitude. He was super critical of the singer and would make comments and faces. It got to the point where I asked why he stayed in the band. But, the attitude affected the whole band.
I think it comes down to finding the right fit. I guess that applies to worship teams too.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

The longer I think about this, the more I believe this is more at more than anything else the root of the problem.

I'm sure there's an element related to spirituality, inadequate direction from the MD, formulaic milquetoast Christian music from the industry $$$....

but at a individual level, I think it's mostly serving ego over song

Years ago a friend of mine developed a bell curve based theory describing Music maturity and professionalism with musicians

The beginning of the curve is what you think it would be

the peak of the bell was developed skills and lack of self-control (this is where a lot of these players seem to be)

The end of the curve is developed skills AND the refined sensibility of knowing when to and when NOT to use monster chops

with great power (chops) comes great responsibility etc. etc.

Finding out one's motivation for playing in a praise and worship band is a key element of management. Having a rehearsal night as opposed to just meeting before service helped as well. I wanted "ministers" with a servant's heart as opposed power players. Our church ran attendance up to 1,500 a week, and were blessed with some incredible talent over the years and it becomes clear whether you have a minister or a "performer" before too long.

 

[Pacman]

I'm seeing a lot of the same gatekeeping here as I do in secular music, as if players fall into an either/or box. Y'all realize that you can be both a great player with a lot of chops and serve the song at the same time.

And sometimes, banging out root 8th notes *isn't* serving the song.

 

[roccobass]

I did a couple of stints in two different churches for some friends of mine. No serious musical gymnastics in either. I did get a few yahs out by some melodic improv on a few songs, which was acceptable by the BL. He liked it. I was playing fretless so I guess it was less intrusive. But I can see it getting out if hand if some restraint isn't observed. Ultimately, the scene wasn't for me.

 

[NickyBass]

I'm seeing a lot of the same gatekeeping here as I do in secular music, as if players fall into an either/or box. Y'all realize that you can be both a great player with a lot of chops and serve the song at the same time.

And sometimes, banging out root 8th notes *isn't* serving the song.

At least once a month, I will play something, get some looks and then ask "was that too much?" Everytime the WL said no, it's never too much. So, it's more a happy look than a disapproving look. But I still want to make sure.
Last Sunday one of the guys doing sound made a comment that I played something during sound check that he liked, but he noticed that I didn't do it in the service. It's in the original, but I felt it stuck out a bit too much, so I skipped it.
I'm certainly encouraged to step out a bit, and I do when it feels right. A lot of the isolated tracks have a lot more going on than I would think and they do play nice fills here and there. Maybe it has something to do with me boosting the bass in the in-ear mix that makes me hold back. Listening to the live stream, a lot of that stuff doesn't stand out nearly as much in the sanctuary.

 

[nozkcb]

IMHO

There's a lot of space between stretching out a bit and tastefully taking some creative liberties to exercise your skills as a musician....

and overplaying to such an extent that the song becomes unrecognizable.

Analogy time:
A thin layer of frosting on a cake is good
a cake that is mostly frosting . . . not so much