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Modulus Mob

#7,861
The shim is only about a 1/4" long and the width of the entire neck, on the butt end of the joint (farthest from the headstock). It is glued/adhered on.

Todd - is that what you are talking about? So that shim is stock?

Where I am talking about putting the strap nut is in the flat area of the neck, where it extends past the body. It would almost line up with the neck bolt. I am planning on using a short, skinny, shallow thread screw. Carbon fiber is a very strong material. I don't think putting the weight load on it will hurt it. The drilling processes and using a screw that won't tug the fibers is my biggest concern.
 
#7,862
BTW - Take heed of bassbenj's suggestion; regarding the strap button placement issue that you're dealing with - it's a whole lot like the neck dive issue that's common to a lot of basses with bodies that have a short or non-existent upper horn, like Telecaster-style basses (G&L ASAT) , Steinberger style basses, and Gibson/Epiphone Thunderbirds.

Sure, your issue isn't neck-dive, but the proposed solution is the same - put a strap button where there's really no place to put a strap button.

The most common and successful modification is an extended neck plate of some type.

Here's a bunch of pictures of various plates people have fabricated to solve their issues -

Neck dive solutions

Now, one thing I would try out that's different from all those is that I would try making the extension remain completely behind the neck to kind of hide it when viewing from the front. I'd probably give it a bend just past the end of the body to make it slant back away from the neck a little bit to assure it doesn't get in the way. It might work, it might not, but to me, aesthetically, it'd be worth a try. And if it doesn't work, no harm done, make another one that will.

Of course, in your situation, the first thing I'd try is putting the strap button on a neck screw.

I'd put a fender washer - a big washer with a little hole, like this -
11128344.jpg

under the strap button to make sure it doesn't dig into the body.
 
#7,863
OK, you seem pretty determined to drill a hole in what is basically the structural beam of your instrument, even if there are other solutions that that we absolutely know will not compromise the integrity of the structural beam.

I know what I would do, and I know what any structural or mechanical engineer would do. It's really a no-brainer.

In all seriousness though, you can also send a message to Geoff Gould, the guy who founded Modulus. He's a member here (here's his profile page - GeoffGould), he pops in from time to time to answer questions, and he's a very cool guy, always very helpful and happy to answer questions about his "babies".

Send him a message, see what he thinks. He might not get back to you right away - he's a busy guy, full time teacher and also runs G. Gould Basses - but he probably will within a day or two. But please, do contact him before you do anything, let us know what he says.
 
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#7,864
Regarding your shim - are you sure it's glued in place? A lot of times the get pretty well stuck to the finish of the neck just from being clamped in there for years and years. Try wiggling a razor blade in under the edge of it; it'll probably pop loose.

No decent luthiers/guitar techs that I know of would glue a shim in place. A shim is a setup tool, so to speak, and may need to be changed depending on the preferences of whoever may play the instrument - if the instrument is ever sold, the new owner may prefer a different neck angle, so you just don't make these kinds of things permanent. It's be like welding the bridge screws in place.
 
#7,865
MTBassMania said:
The shim is only about a 1/4" long and the width of the entire neck, on the butt end of the joint (farthest from the headstock). It is glued/adhered on.

Todd - is that what you are talking about? So that shim is stock?
.
Click to expand...
The block that I am talking about is internal(not the shim) and pretty much doesn't extend much beyond the screw inserts.

Todd
 
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#7,866
BruceWane said:
Regarding your shim - are you sure it's glued in place? A lot of times the get pretty well stuck to the finish of the neck just from being clamped in there for years and years. Try wiggling a razor blade in under the edge of it; it'll probably pop loose.

No decent luthiers/guitar techs that I know of would glue a shim in place. A shim is a setup tool, so to speak, and may need to be changed depending on the preferences of whoever may play the instrument - if the instrument is ever sold, the new owner may prefer a different neck angle, so you just don't make these kinds of things permanent. It's be like welding the bridge screws in place.
Click to expand...

It was just stuck on there really good, not glued. It popped off when I picked at it. My mistake.

I am not DEAD set on drilling a hole in there. I always try and find a different way. I used an Ibanez mikro to experiment with - put LOTS of holes in that guy, trying to find something else that will work. This is my 7th bass guitar, and putting a strap nut where I'm talking about has worked unfailingly on all the previous 6. All wood necks, tho. It just makes it hang perfectly for me, without having to use any arm strength to hold it in place.

The plate idea is a good one. I never thought or heard of that before. I think I would need it to curl under the 22nd fret though. That position both lifts the neck up to hang at a 45+ degree angle, and pulls it toward the body, so it doesn't tend to flop over (unless I bend over).

Thanks for passing along Gould's contact info. I will see what he says before I do anything.
 
#7,868
Bob_Ross said:
But it's also an anisotropic material; it's directional, and so depending on how the structure was designed it may only be "very strong" along a particular axis.
Click to expand...
Yeah, carbon fiber's strength is in it's resistance to bending, which in materials analysis is referred to as modulus of elasticity, also called Young's modulus. See where the brand name came from? ;)

CF is cool stuff because it's very stiff in relation to it's weight. You can make stiff things out of CF that are very light in comparison to other materials. But you have to engineer the design so that the fibers are going in specific directions that will support the loads that will be applied to structure.

Anyway, the fact that a material is stiff does not mean that it has good machineability, which is what you want when you're looking to have a screw hold securely. In this respect, wood and metals are much, much better than CF. CF is very brittle in this respect; the fibers will crack and shred very easily.
 
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#7,874
Hey ModMob... Has anyone bought one of the new Modulus basses? I am thinking about replacing my Flea and eyeing the Funks.

Also: Any G. Gould owners have feedback on how his basses sound and feel?

I love the compound radius of my Flea 4 and dig the feel and tone, but I'd like to find a lighter replacement with an MM/P configuration...
 
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#7,875
Todd GT5 said:
The block that I am talking about is internal(not the shim) and pretty much doesn't extend much beyond the screw inserts.

Todd
Click to expand...

Okay.... do you know if the block extends the width of the neck? Or is there a space between the side wall and the block? Finally found some pics that show the insides a bit, and I see the 1/8 inch thick "shell" everyone is talking about.

Been digging thru other forums for tips on drilling thru CF. Custom building/ modding radio control copters/cars had the most info. Fast and sharp drill with a wooden block below and masking tape on top seems to be the best way. So if that block extends to the side wall, I think it will be okay.

If I could find a machinest or a luthier, I'd get one of those strapnut extenders that attach to the neck bolts fabricated in a heartbeat. Tried getting a hold of my old luthier (whom I haven't used in years), and it turns out he quit and moved away last year. Next nearest one is 200mi away...
 
#7,877
IMG_0252.JPG IMG_0254.JPG
Angus said:
Have you tried the Gruv Gear Duostrap? It will probably help with the alignment you want and not destroy the value of your bass.
Click to expand...

Appreciate it, but they don't quite cut it. The angle I need makes the horn point right at my chin. The second fret is eye level. The neck-body joint is at my belly button. Dual strap is good for dispersing weight, but being attached to the horn still makes it sit funny for me. Even behind the neck, at the joint (like a violin bass) doesn't work - neck dive. For whatever reason, below the 19-22 feet, just forward of the center of gravity, is the sweet spot. Here are a couple pics. Neither of my hands are touching the bass.
 
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#7,878
Okay, after talking with Geoff and digging around my hardware store, I think this is my best option:

I am going to bore a 7/32" hole and Gorilla Glue the silver threaded insert in there. The screws are matched at 6-32 thread. Not sure if I'll use the 1 or 3/4, as my music shop mailed me a very high profile strap nut, and I obviously want a lower profile because of its location. But Geoff suggested I do this, presumably so the screw threads don't thread into the CF. He said that it "should be okay, if you're careful." Obviously, if it screws up the neck, I'm not gonna blame him. Using black oxide drill bit. Probably do a pilot hole before going in with the 7/32. A friend who worked on his CF dirt bike exhaust recommend I keep the bit wet, and tape the surface.IMG_0268.JPGIMG_0269.JPGIMG_0270.JPG

I also have to do this for the bridge strap nut. Turns out the wood is stripped. Didn't realize it til I took the strap off and the nut came along with it.

I should say Geoff did think that the strapnut-neckbolt was a better idea, and I may hold off on doing anything until I've exhausted my connections on trying to find someone who could machine it.

Flame away...
 
#7,879
MTBassMania said:
I also have to do this for the bridge strap nut. Turns out the wood is stripped. Didn't realize it til I took the strap off and the nut came along with it.
Click to expand...

The typical fix here is stick a toothpick with some wood glue into the stripped hole, then put the existing screw back in. Use two or three toothpicks if necessary. I've never needed to do this, but if I did I'd put some wax on the screw so that the glue wouldn't stick to it quite so well.

Putting a threaded insert in is certainly an effective repair, but my experience with threaded inserts is that they're pretty hard to put in really, really cleanly. I'd be afraid of chipping the finish around the hole when twisting in a threaded insert. With a finished bass, I think I'd probably make the pilot hole on the verge of *too* big, big enough that the insert slides in with little resistance, then epoxy it in there.

I should say Geoff did think that the strapnut-neckbolt was a better idea, and I may hold off on doing anything until I've exhausted my connections on trying to find someone who could machine it.

Flame away...
Click to expand...

You ought to try posting over in the Luthier's Corner. Lotsa very talented, crafty people over there, I'll bet one of them could fabricate what you need.
 
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