Moogerfooger MF-101 Lowpass Filter Pedal alternative

[Phaidrus]

Hey, I have an idea that probably won't work but I'll say it regardless.

I can get a deal on a NOS EHX Black Finger tube compressor. It features two tubes that in fact don't do the compression (it's an opto comp) but somehow work in it's preamp section (I think). Could such a pedal provide the xtra dubby thickness I'm looking for?

 

[sunbeast]

Hey, I have an idea that probably won't work but I'll say it regardless.

I can get a deal on a NOS EHX Black Finger tube compressor. It features two tubes that in fact don't do the compression (it's an opto comp) but somehow work in it's preamp section (I think). Could such a pedal provide the xtra dubby thickness I'm looking for?

Are you not able to find an EHX Qtron Enigma or Riddle locally? Lots of pedals can add fatness and cut high-end, but a resonant filter is really your best bet IMO

 

[Phaidrus]

Are you not able to find an EHX Qtron Enigma or Riddle locally? Lots of pedals can add fatness and cut high-end, but a resonant filter is really your best bet IMO

Yes, I can find both the Enigma (for bass) and the Riddle (for guitar) for a bit more than 200 bucks. Is the Enigma better suited for bass, preserving the low end? Are the two pedals otherwise equivalent? And are they better than the nano Qtron? Apologies for all these questions...

 

[Hummergeist]

I wonder if Behringer going quiet on their MF clones has anything to do with Moog being sold to a conglomerate that likely has deeper pockets for lawsuits.

Very interesting point!

 

[Hummergeist]

Unfortunately the MF-101 is discontinued and second hand units cost a fortune.

Could you perhaps suggest an alternative? Thanks!

I know it's not really what you want to hear, but I settled for the plug-in version last week. Sounds good though.

 

[WG Plum]

I know it's not really what you want to hear, but I settled for the plug-in version last week. Sounds good though.

The Moog plugins are excellent. At one point I had nearly every 'fooger (never could afford the MF104 delay) and the plugins totally stand up.

I hear the filter on the Meris Ottobit Jr is pretty good.

 

[sloppy_phil]

Just had a look at the MXR M82 manual, where it says that Filter Sweep (fc) ranges from 76 Hz to 3.2 kHz. Does that perhaps mean it can produce a thick dub tone? Unfortunately all demos I've seen focus on its quack capabilities, which are in fact unwanted in a dub scenario.

There's also the BOSS AW-3 Dynamic Wah but it looks like this is even more quacky.

The MXR BE does indeed dub. It's not a GREAT version of that sound, but it can be made to do it. Plus, you can blend in the separate clean signal, for definition. So actually, it's not a bad shout. I just didn't end up enjoying the way it did funk, so ended up moving it on.

Using a Seamoon Funk Machine now (probably hard to come by, but not as expensive as the Prometheus) and it DEFINITELY does the dub thing. Closest to the DOD I've heard by a mile.

 

[Phaidrus]

The MXR BE does indeed dub. It's not a GREAT version of that sound, but it can be made to do it. Plus, you can blend in the separate clean signal, for definition. So actually, it's not a bad shout. I just didn't end up enjoying the way it did funk, so ended up moving it on.

Using a Seamoon Funk Machine now (probably hard to come by, but not as expensive as the Prometheus) and it DEFINITELY does the dub thing. Closest to the DOD I've heard by a mile.

There's a Seamoon Funk Machine reissue available, it seems. Price is not bad.

 

[sloppy_phil]

@Phaidrus that's the one I'm using. The reissued unit. Found one used locally for $200 CAD!

 

[sunbeast]

Yes, I can find both the Enigma (for bass) and the Riddle (for guitar) for a bit more than 200 bucks. Is the Enigma better suited for bass, preserving the low end? Are the two pedals otherwise equivalent? And are they better than the nano Qtron? Apologies for all these questions...

The only difference in the filter sections as far as I know is that the Enigma filters down to 40hz vs 80hz for the Riddle and the Riddle in turn filters up a bit higher for the guitar range. The Enigma can filter below the audible frequency of my basses (the bottom 1/5 or so of the Frequency/sweep knobs are just silence) so that extra sweep doesn’t actually serve much purpose. There are a few TBers that prefer the Riddle over the Enigma with bass for this reason. The Distortion sections are voiced different too, but I rarely use the Distortion on my Enigma so that part doesn’t matter to me much.

As I pointed out earlier, the Nano Qtron lacks the control over static (non-enveloped) filter sounds that you can be dialed in- the same limitation that pedals like the MXR and DOD have. So you will basically be stuck with whatever cutoff frequency is at the bottom of the sweep of that pedal when you turn the sensitivity control off, which may or may not work. You’d have to try one out to see if it works for you in this regard or maybe someone else can chime in who has tried it with the Drive turned all the way down.

The Enigma and Riddle both have Frequency controls that allow you to choose exactly where the static/fixed filter cutoff frequency is just like the Moog and Xerograph pedals do, so in that way they are superior for what you are looking for vs the Nano Qtron (they also have jacks for an expression pedal so you can manually sweep the filter, which is a popular modern electro dub trick, ala dubstep).

 

[Phaidrus]

The only difference in the filter sections as far as I know is that the Enigma filters down to 40hz vs 80hz for the Riddle and the Riddle in turn filters up a bit higher for the guitar range. The Enigma can filter below the audible frequency of my basses (the bottom 1/5 or so of the Frequency/sweep knobs are just silence) so that extra sweep doesn’t actually serve much purpose. There are a few TBers that prefer the Riddle over the Enigma with bass for this reason. The Distortion sections are voiced different too, but I rarely use the Distortion on my Enigma so that part doesn’t matter to me much.

As I pointed out earlier, the Nano Qtron lacks the control over static (non-enveloped) filter sounds that you can be dialed in- the same limitation that pedals like the MXR and DOD have. So you will basically be stuck with whatever cutoff frequency is at the bottom of the sweep of that pedal when you turn the sensitivity control off, which may or may not work. You’d have to try one out to see if it works for you in this regard or maybe someone else can chime in who has tried it with the Drive turned all the way down.

The Enigma and Riddle both have Frequency controls that allow you to choose exactly where the static/fixed filter cutoff frequency is just like the Moog and Xerograph pedals do, so in that way they are superior for what you are looking for vs the Nano Qtron (they also have jacks for an expression pedal so you can manually sweep the filter, which is a popular modern electro dub trick, ala dubstep).

Understood. Thanks again for taking time to explain the logic of these pedals, which I've never used so far. The Enigma looks like a good candidate, I can get a NOS - the last one available - for about 200 bucks.

 

[sunbeast]

Understood. Thanks again for taking time to explain the logic of these pedals, which I've never used so far. The Enigma looks like a good candidate, I can get a NOS - the last one available - for about 200 bucks.

Dang I forget how much pricier things can be outside the US! I guess they recently discontinued them, but I was seeing them regularly selling for $120 or so just months ago. At the $200 pricepoint there are probably a lot more options to start considering, though the Enigma is a great one in my experience- not just at your relatively basic application but at tons of other filter applications as well

 

[spufman]

Just had a look on Reverb and found a Prometheus DLX for about 300 bucks incl. shipping. Looks like it's in good condition, not cheap though.

My Prometheus is the original non-deluxe version. It's a great sounding filter often available for around $130 or so. Does the dubby thing well, and lots more.

 

[Alien8]

Meris Enzo.

I own both the 101 and Enzo and Broughton RFE. I have owned the Xerograph Dlx, Qtron+ and have experience with lots of others.

That dubby sound isn't about the drive, it's all in the resonance, a little drive helps if you don't have an active bass.

Enzo does a great job at filtering and IMO it's strength is in a fixed filter. It's very clean and excels with resonance. BUT it also does so much more considering what you are looking to spend. Learn the interface, it's not hard. Buy used, save some cash, they are easy to find usually.

 

[theunknowndude]

Thanks. On their website it says

“On the filter, I wanted to go for that vintage mpc 3000 low pass type of thing…Or similar to doing a low pass plug-in for a track, or like a dj would do without it being too “wah pedal” like, and this achieved that.”

So yes, perhaps this means it can do a dub type tone. It also looks good with the Matterhorn graphic!

I forget his user name…
@adamaarts I think? Did a YouTube clip - I’ll try and google and link it later as on my phone… he showed off a lot of the sub type sounds as well as the filter stuff going through settings

edit: sorry found it

 

[Phaidrus]

I forget his user name…
@adamaarts I think? Did a YouTube clip - I’ll try and google and link it later as on my phone… he showed off a lot of the sub type sounds as well as the filter stuff going through settings

edit: sorry found it

Thanks! It sounds quite versatile and it's available too. He gets good dub tones out of it.

 

[Phaidrus]

Thank you all for the ideas and suggestions. I've just "discovered" the SolidGoldFx SupaFunk envelope filter, which features not one but two low pass filters. Does anyone have any experience with it? I've watched a couple of demo vids and there's no mention of it doing dub tones although I suppose that it somehow does that too.

SUPA FUNK - ENVELOPE BI-FILTER

 

[Phaidrus]

The MXR BE does indeed dub. It's not a GREAT version of that sound, but it can be made to do it. Plus, you can blend in the separate clean signal, for definition. So actually, it's not a bad shout. I just didn't end up enjoying the way it did funk, so ended up moving it on.

Using a Seamoon Funk Machine now (probably hard to come by, but not as expensive as the Prometheus) and it DEFINITELY does the dub thing. Closest to the DOD I've heard by a mile.

@sunbeast
@jkmtl

Out of all pedals discussed the Seamoon Funk Machine probably sounds closer to the tone I have in mind, if these demo vids are anything to go by. Do you think this or any other similar pedal would work well with the Markbass Compressore that I have always on as tone shaper? The Compressore adds warmth, texture and punch to my tone and it would be counterintuitive to add an envelope filter pedal that would somehow negate its effect. And if compressor and env. filter are indeed compatible, in which order should I use them? Thanks and pardon my ignorance.

 

[sunbeast]

@sunbeast
@jkmtl

Out of all pedals discussed the Seamoon Funk Machine probably sounds closer to the tone I have in mind, if these demo vids are anything to go by. Do you think this or any other similar pedal would work well with the Markbass Compressore that I have always on as tone shaper? The Compressore adds warmth, texture and punch to my tone and it would be counterintuitive to add an envelope filter pedal that would somehow negate its effect. And if compressor and env. filter are indeed compatible, in which order should I use them? Thanks and pardon my ignorance.

The Seamoon sounds cool and looks to have a great way to get those dub tones with more versatility than many other "basic" envelope filters since it has both Depth and Frequency controls- sounds kinda similar to the Chunk Agent 00 Funk pedal clone I have which also does those tones nicely. The only thing missing for my taste on the Seamoon vs my favorite filters is a Q/Resonance control to dial in that resonant peak, but if it works it works!

I can't see a reason that the filter should negate what the comp is adding apart from of course filtering off some of the high and midrange frequencies when engaged. You'll have to play around with the volume of the filter if you put the comp behind it so that you aren't hitting the comp too hard with filter engaged, but you'll just have to try the comp before and after to see what you prefer ultimately- I suspect both approaches will sound different. I generally have a comp first in my pedal chain these days as a general tone and dynamic shaper (usually Ovnifx Smoothie or Empress Bass, sometimes a Fairfield Accountant), but sometimes also have another near the end set as a limiter to tame the extreme peaks from sweeping filters- in your case (using the filter without sweeping) the peaks shouldn't be a big issue.

 

[never-enough]

It’s rare that a comp works well after a filter as the comp usually tames the peaks of the filter but since in this instance you aren’t really going for much in the way of big filter peaks it might work ok to run the filter first.
No big deal to try it both ways.
And a colored comp into filter is a pretty common setup, it should work great.