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Moogerfooger MF-101 Lowpass Filter Pedal alternative

#81
Just goes to show, there's no "right" way to chain up effects; I don't use any comp before my filter (the Seamoon in question), but I run one after it, in order to catch the *crazy* spikes it's capable of putting out, as well as any other big spikes that may occur from running other pedals. I make sure the threshold of the comp is sufficiently adjusted so that it doesn't lose out on the sound/vibe at all, and I make sure I'm not sending anything nasty to my speakers, or the FOH/recording tech.

Ironically, this all get me more responsive dynamics out of the filter than without the comp/limiter; I had to play super carefully in order to avoid digging in too hard and causing a spike, but now that's no problem anymore.
 
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#82
sloppy_phil said:
Just goes to show, there's no "right" way to chain up effects; I don't use any comp before my filter (the Seamoon in question), but I run one after it, in order to catch the *crazy* spikes it's capable of putting out, as well as any other big spikes that may occur from running other pedals. I make sure the threshold of the comp is sufficiently adjusted so that it doesn't lose out on the sound/vibe at all, and I make sure I'm not sending anything nasty to my speakers, or the FOH/recording tech.

Ironically, this all get me more responsive dynamics out of the filter than without the comp/limiter; I had to play super carefully in order to avoid digging in too hard and causing a spike, but now that's no problem anymore.
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Yep I have this same issue with some filters, the Agent 00 Funk clone I have in particular is so dynamic and potentially peaky when I dig in that I can easily clip things down the line using certain filter sounds with that pedal and having a comp set as a limiter after it is ideal and actually improves the feel and outcome as you describe (the Moog is actually relatively smooth in this respect IME, particularly with the Drive pushed up as mine usually is which naturally adds compression). I suspect for the OP's fixed-filter needs this won't be as much of a concern though, though certainly the filter is likely to push the comp differently than the clean tone if the comp is after the filter
 
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#84
sunbeast said:
The Seamoon sounds cool and looks to have a great way to get those dub tones with more versatility than many other "basic" envelope filters since it has both Depth and Frequency controls- sounds kinda similar to the Chunk Agent 00 Funk pedal clone I have which also does those tones nicely. The only thing missing for my taste on the Seamoon vs my favorite filters is a Q/Resonance control to dial in that resonant peak, but if it works it works!

I can't see a reason that the filter should negate what the comp is adding apart from of course filtering off some of the high and midrange frequencies when engaged. You'll have to play around with the volume of the filter if you put the comp behind it so that you aren't hitting the comp too hard with filter engaged, but you'll just have to try the comp before and after to see what you prefer ultimately- I suspect both approaches will sound different. I generally have a comp first in my pedal chain these days as a general tone and dynamic shaper (usually Ovnifx Smoothie or Empress Bass, sometimes a Fairfield Accountant), but sometimes also have another near the end set as a limiter to tame the extreme peaks from sweeping filters- in your case (using the filter without sweeping) the peaks shouldn't be a big issue.
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Do you think the Kangra, having a resonance control knob that the Seamoon lacks, could be a pedal better suited to finding the (dub) tone one has in mind? No blend knob though.

@adamaarts gets some pretty good dub tones out of it (1:30 & 3:40).



Also the Kangra is available in Europe, so no import taxes and duties.

Unfortunately the Seamoon isn't available in the Old World. Its dub tones sound good though (5:15) and it has a blend knob.

 
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#85
Phaidrus said:
Do you think the Kangra, having a resonance control knob that the Seamoon lacks, could be a pedal better suited to finding the (dub) tone one has in mind? No blend knob though.

@adamaarts gets some pretty good dub tones out of it (1:30 & 3:40).



Also the Kangra is available in Europe, so no import taxes and duties.

Unfortunately the Seamoon isn't available in the Old World. Its dub tones sound good though (5:15) and it has a blend knob.

Click to expand...

They both sound great to me in these videos and both sound capable of nailing some great dub tones, really just depends on your tastes! Hard to tell for sure, but at least via the demos it sounds like the Seamoon's fixed resonance is pretty strong which gives it its really funky aggressive vibe in the enveloped clips The dubby clip soundslike noticeably stronger resonance than used in your Moog clip earlier, though it could just be the frequency he parked it at in the dub clip that is extra boomy in the clip- you could temper this to a degree using the Blend as he does a bit after showing the straight dubby tone. The dubby tone in the Kangra vid sounds less resonant to me than the Seamoon even when he turns the Res knob up nearly all the way. I think I overall prefer the Seamoon clips personally as they have a lot of cool character and touch-sensitivity to them, but for what you are going for the Resonance control might well be useful to have fatness without too much resonant "boom". I like that the Kangra has the Envelope switch and Expression Jack additions (so you can manually sweep the filter and flip the switch to automatically pop into an envelope filter sound rather than needing to adjust a knob).

Tough choice!
 
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#86
sunbeast said:
They both sound great to me in these videos and both sound capable of nailing some great dub tones, really just depends on your tastes! Hard to tell for sure, but at least via the demos it sounds like the Seamoon's fixed resonance is pretty strong which gives it its really funky aggressive vibe in the enveloped clips The dubby clip soundslike noticeably stronger resonance than used in your Moog clip earlier, though it could just be the frequency he parked it at in the dub clip that is extra boomy in the clip- you could temper this to a degree using the Blend as he does a bit after showing the straight dubby tone. The dubby tone in the Kangra vid sounds less resonant to me than the Seamoon even when he turns the Res knob up nearly all the way. I think I overall prefer the Seamoon clips personally as they have a lot of cool character and touch-sensitivity to them, but for what you are going for the Resonance control might well be useful to have fatness without too much resonant "boom". I like that the Kangra has the Envelope switch and Expression Jack additions (so you can manually sweep the filter and flip the switch to automatically pop into an envelope filter sound rather than needing to adjust a knob).

Tough choice!
Click to expand...

Thanks. Tough choice indeed! Well, the fact that the Kangra is readily available in Europe makes the choice somewhat easier, at least in terms of cost. The EHX Enigma is also available (at least one leftover unit) but I haven't been able to find a review video featuring any dub tones; they exclusively focus on its quack capabilities. Between the Kangra and the Enigma, the former makes a more serious impression, although this is an unfounded assessment. The Iron Ether and some other cool pedals are quite expensive and also subject to custom duties as I would have to order from overseas (US, AUS, Japan). Lastly, I've spotted a couple of second-hand DOD FX25Bs in Europe for a price comparable to the Kangra, so there's another option. Between the Kangra and the DOD FX25B I have no idea which one does the better dub tones.
 
#87
Phaidrus said:
Thanks. Tough choice indeed! Well, the fact that the Kangra is readily available in Europe makes the choice somewhat easier, at least in terms of cost. The EHX Enigma is also available (at least one leftover unit) but I haven't been able to find a review video featuring any dub tones; they exclusively focus on its quack capabilities. Between the Kangra and the Enigma, the former makes a more serious impression, although this is an unfounded assessment. The Iron Ether and some other cool pedals are quite expensive and also subject to custom duties as I would have to order from overseas (US, AUS, Japan). Lastly, I've spotted a couple of second-hand DOD FX25Bs in Europe for a price comparable to the Kangra, so there's another option. Between the Kangra and the DOD FX25B I have no idea which one does the better dub tones.
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The Kangra would be much more tweakable than an FX25, that much is certain. The FX25 basically gives you one fixed filter tone/frequency, and while it is a good one it’s pretty limiting- not to mention the envelope filter sounds of the FX25 can be pretty thin with bass IME unless you set it up to only sweep the bottom range of the pedal (since it is a bandpass rather than low-pass filter the top of the sweep sounds like a guitar). With the Kangra you could sweep to different frequencies with the knob or an expression pedal and adjust the Q to taste, and the envelope filter tones also sound more useful too if you want to ever use any IMO from that video clip. The Kangra product page even says that he designed the filter specifically to do those kinds of deep MPC-style low-pass sounds with the fixed filter (not specifically dub, but a synthy low-pass thickener that doesn’t sound honky like a wah).
I love my Enigma, but can’t say for certain it would be better in your application than something like the Kangra- especially if the Kangra is cheaper where you live. I mostly suggested the Enigma because it has lots of great features and was easy to find for reasonable prices (before it was apparently discontinued!).
 
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#93
sunbeast said:
Yep I have this same issue with some filters, the Agent 00 Funk clone I have in particular is so dynamic and potentially peaky when I dig in that I can easily clip things down the line using certain filter sounds with that pedal and having a comp set as a limiter after it is ideal and actually improves the feel and outcome as you describe (the Moog is actually relatively smooth in this respect IME, particularly with the Drive pushed up as mine usually is which naturally adds compression). I suspect for the OP's fixed-filter needs this won't be as much of a concern though, though certainly the filter is likely to push the comp differently than the clean tone if the comp is after the filter
Click to expand...

Phaidrus said:
Unfortunately the MF-101 is discontinued and second hand units cost a fortune.

Could you perhaps suggest an alternative? Thanks!
Click to expand...
ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT! Behringer
Phaidrus said:
Unfortunately the MF-101 is discontinued and second hand units cost a fortune.

Could you perhaps suggest an alternative? Thanks!
Click to expand...
ZOMBIE THREAD RESURRECTION! Behringer is bringing out a Moog Lowpass Filter clone as part of their new BM series. The lowpass filter is Behringer BM-11M.
 
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#94
Phaidrus said:
Thanks, it looks promising!
Click to expand...
The PX101 is awesome! As someone who owns both an MF101 and the PX, I think they really nailed it with their improvements to the original (most notably being the Master Volume, but also being able to put the pedal into true bypass if you wish!). The only reason I could see using the Moog at this point is for all the CV connections, though honestly I rarely use those apart from the Frequency input anyway (the destination for the single expression input on the PX is user selectable internally)
 
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#96
Does that PX101 still exist? Gotta say, putting a true bypass in there is an excellent upgrade (assuming they faithfully recreated everything else). I lazily have mine (MF101) plugged into a loooper pedal just for true bypass.

Do we trust a Behringer knockoff?
 
#98
toastw said:
Does that PX101 still exist? Gotta say, putting a true bypass in there is an excellent upgrade (assuming they faithfully recreated everything else). I lazily have mine (MF101) plugged into a loooper pedal just for true bypass.

Do we trust a Behringer knockoff?
Click to expand...
I heard that PastFX are having a break of a month or so, should be back in October somewhere. But yes, the PX101 still exists and, having tried it side by side with a Moog MF-101 (yes, I own both), they nailed it. I got exactly similar sounds, with the added bonus of true-bypass and most of all that master volume. I accidentally broke my PX-101, and had to use the Moog for a while until I got the PX fixed. I missed the PX. Now that it is fixed, I might sell the Moog and get a spare PX 😅
 
#99
GrayGoesBlack said:
I heard that PastFX are having a break of a month or so, should be back in October somewhere. But yes, the PX101 still exists and, having tried it side by side with a Moog MF-101 (yes, I own both), they nailed it. I got exactly similar sounds, with the added bonus of true-bypass and most of all that master volume. I accidentally broke my PX-101, and had to use the Moog for a while until I got the PX fixed. I missed the PX. Now that it is fixed, I might sell the Moog and get a spare PX 😅
Click to expand...
I didn't realize people paid good money for the originals! Just this weekend, stupid microphone fell on mine. Microphone is fine but it smashed up the "Mix" knob on the MF101 pretty good :mad: That mix knob was probably worth more than the mic! :laugh:
 

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