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Moogerfooger MF-101 Lowpass Filter Pedal alternative
- Thread starter Phaidrus
- Start date
Give it a shot- easier than buying something new! Depending on your Markbass head, I believe the VLE control actually is essentially a sweepable LPF, so I'd play around with that first if your head has that control (never spent much time with one myself, but recall reading about them when the LMII was first getting popular around TB years ago).
If not, then combining EQ cuts like you describe might get you in the ballpark- A 12dB/octave LPF filter has a particular curve, but with EQ you can often closely emulate different EQ curves by mixing a number of other types of curves like you describe. Whether or not it will be suitable is really dependent on the configuration of the EQ in that amp and how picky you are. I imagine the High and Low are shelving filters (which is common on bass amps), meaning the Low control raises everything below its frequency and the High raises everything above its frequency (more or less). The mid controls are likely peaking bandpass/notch controls so they only affect a relatively thin chunk of frequencies around their labeled frequencies.
If you have a DAW to play with you can set up an EQ plugin to get a visual reference for these sorts of things by first building an LPF tone you like then trying to match it by combining a low shelf EQ band, a high shelf EQ band and two mid-centered peak/notch bandpass EQ bands
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His posted example doesn't seem to feature any enveloping, and any resonance or drive is also pretty mild (in fact the Drive light is barely coming on in the video, when I use my Moog I often have it running hot and the light peaking much of the time and in that case the character is very noticeable). You are correct that the Moog does have some added "mojo" from the preamp regardless of settings (one of the things you either love or hate about that pedal), but I think he is less interested in exact matching and more trying to get in the ballpark to get a natural dublike tone. For my taste, a resonant filter like the Moog/Xerograph/Enigma/Spectrum/C4/Broughton RFE or some of the other suggestions would be ideal for this but combining some more mild EQ in a chain could get a similar vibe (like using a simple 12dB/octave LP filter like the Broughton then also boosting bass and/or low-mids at the amplifier to shape the low-end to taste).
Yes, I suppose it's safe to say that the dub tone he gets is to a large extent possible by means of the LPF of the Moog and that a filter like the Broughton LPF would get me in the ballpark. But as you mention, the Moog and other resonant filters also have a certain mojo that makes their low pass filtering sound juicy and musical. I've noticed that when I cut off highs and especially high mids too much tone becomes hollow and lifeless. Perhaps the secret curve of a good LPF will compensate for that to some extent.
My Markbass head has neither the VLE not the VPF control of the LMII and LMIII heads but rather a three-way switch between "flat", "scooped" and "vintage" plus the aforementioned four EQ knobs. The vintage position, which is what I'm using for dub, is probably some sort of LPF with its own secret sauce. It sounds good and although I play a Pbass, and not a more appropriate Jbass, I get a decent dub tone. But, you know, there's probably room for improvement, as any TBer worth their posts would think. And this Dub Spencer Instagram clip got me going, as it happens. So my tentative conclusion with the help of your input and taking into consideration all other comments that people kindly posted here is that a simple good quality LPF filter, like the Broughton, will certainly help towards this dubby tone but if one listens close enough the mojo may not be there. For that I probably need something like the Moog or any of the other pedals you've mentioned, most of which are discontinued and require a small investment to acquire them.
Dub, from the perspective of the bass/bassist, does not require much in terms of, strictly speaking, technical skills but it stands and falls with feel and tone. Feel I do have, sometimes, when I'm "in the zone". I mean, just a few notes Flabba Holt leisurely plucks on his bass could be the bassline of a dub track because he's totally into it. So I may work on my tone, which is arguably more feasible despite the high prices of some pedals. But again, feel is everything, mon.
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If you can find one cheap, check out the DOD FX25. They used to be easy to find for $50 or less (as an envelope filter they aren’t as well loved), and are a sort of dub secret weapon. Unfortunately you only get one tone (no control over the cutoff frequency), but all you have to do is turn the Sensitivity control all the way down and it is a great dub tone. Unfortunately and surprisingly I had trouble finding a clip of one used this way to link to. Bill Laswell used a similar DOD envelope filter set the same way for most of his famous dub recordings (but the pedal he used is much rarer)
the Broughton low pass filter might do what you want if combined with an overdrive pedal to add a little gain and additional eq points to play around with. It would be used more as a tone shaper pedal than for actual overdrive
I'm already using a Markbass Compressore tube compressor as a tone shaper pedal, to thicken the tone and give it a bit of texture. It's always on, gain is always set to max and the compressor kicks in fast and stays on for the duration of the note. All that at a very moderate compression ratio. I also have an EHX Hot Tubes pedal that I don't use. Perhaps the compressor combined with the Broughton LPF might do the trick.
Just had a look on Reverb and DOD FX25s go for about 160 $/€ plus shipping (some units also have a Blend knob). For a bit more I could order the Broughton LPF and for quite a bit more the Moog. So I have to see how much I should invest in which pedal. Out of curiosity, what was Laswell using? The dubby tone of his Pbass is quite impressive considering it's not the most appropriate bass for the job.
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Yeah unfortunately it looks like the secret is out about the FX25! The DOD he claims in interviews to have used is the DOD 545, though he has often been attributed by others for years with using the FX25 so may have used both at different times- I can verify that the original (non B version) FX25 does a killer dub tone, I should have kept mine but had no practical use for it at the time. I also read that he used a Guyatone Bottom Rocker Wah (I think that’s the name) at some point for the same kinda of fixed filter tones. I believe he also used a rackmount subharmonic synthesizer to supplement the fatness at times in his dub stuff
Would the reissued DOD 440 pedal also do the trick?
I've read that it has a band pass filter as opposed to the low pass filter of the FX25, so I suppose it won't work.
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How expensive is a used Aguilar Octamizer near you? It's a fantastic, natural sounding octave pedal, that crushes as a thickener. It can get a little synthy/artificial sounding, as you say, but only if you set the filters for it specifically. In general, its bread and butter is just natural fatness, and it can get a great array of sounds on that end of the octave spectrum.
Actually oddly enough the FX25 and 545 utilize a bandpass filter as well instead of a lowpass, but its particular voice just works anyway (when its low enough, the band of frequencies it lets through are most of the bottom of the bass range)- though that is part of what makes it not particularly great as an envelope filter as the sweep gets very thin as it goes up then massive right at the bottom. I have read the 440 filter does not do this dub trick via TBers that grabbed them on blowout sales- unfortunately whether a filter pedal does it is totally dependent on the sweep that was built in- some filters even if you cn get them parked on the bottom of the sweep just aren't thick/fat enough (in the case of the 440 I think the sweep just doesn't go low enough)
I have seen a few posts suggesting the MXR M82 can do this fixed dub tone with the sensitivity turned all the way off, so that might be one to look into if they are available around you. It is also a bandpass filter but as with the FX25 it seems to do alright for fat tones at the bottom of the sweep if the comments I read are true. I can’t verify this myself, but at least around here they are easy to source and relatively cheap used
Not sure if it’s what you want exactly but a kangra fuzz filter actually has a decent filter… can be a fixed lpf or does the closed filter thing. The inbuilt fuzz or run your own before it makes the closed filter thing sound pretty wild on top of the filters built in resonance sweep. I did find it was fiddly to get the sweet spots but once it is it’s pretty awesome
The Subdecay Prometheus is another good option, usually underpriced on the used market. Excellent, versatile box.
I'm not certain a simple low pass filter will get the same kind of sound as what's in the IG video. When I listen to the clip again, yes it's a big fat dubby sound, but there's high end there still. The note definition is very good.
When I was trying to get a similar sound with the XD, the only way I could make it work was to blend in some clean sound. I had the effect volume at noon and the clean volume between 9 and 10 o'clock, so a fair amount. Without it, the sound was too muddy.
If you use something like the Broughton LPF and a line selector, this should be pretty easy to deal with though.
When I was trying to get a similar sound with the XD, the only way I could make it work was to blend in some clean sound. I had the effect volume at noon and the clean volume between 9 and 10 o'clock, so a fair amount. Without it, the sound was too muddy.
If you use something like the Broughton LPF and a line selector, this should be pretty easy to deal with though.
Just had a look at the MXR M82 manual, where it says that Filter Sweep (fc) ranges from 76 Hz to 3.2 kHz. Does that perhaps mean it can produce a thick dub tone? Unfortunately all demos I've seen focus on its quack capabilities, which are in fact unwanted in a dub scenario.
There's also the BOSS AW-3 Dynamic Wah but it looks like this is even more quacky.
Thanks. On their website it says
“On the filter, I wanted to go for that vintage mpc 3000 low pass type of thing…Or similar to doing a low pass plug-in for a track, or like a dj would do without it being too “wah pedal” like, and this achieved that.”
So yes, perhaps this means it can do a dub type tone. It also looks good with the Matterhorn graphic!
Just had a look on Reverb and found a Prometheus DLX for about 300 bucks incl. shipping. Looks like it's in good condition, not cheap though.
I’ve seen the MXR mentioned as an FX25 alternative for dub tones, but since that isn’t really what it is designed for you’ll have to try it to see. I’ve never tried one myself. I just suggested it because it is readily available and probably something you might be able to demo in a store unlike most of these other options. These types of options (DOD, MXR) aren’t ideal in my opinion because you are tied to the set bottom frequency point of the filter sweep (no frequency control to tweak to taste). The cool thing about the Moog, Xerograph, and Enigma, etc is that when used as a fixed filter you can dial in the frequency you want with a knob which makes them much more versatile. The FX25 and 545 and filters like that just happen to work well with the Sensitivity turned down enough to stop the filter from sweeping, but not every filter that can do this will sound good set that wayJust had a look at the MXR M82 manual, where it says that Filter Sweep (fc) ranges from 76 Hz to 3.2 kHz. Does that perhaps mean it can produce a thick dub tone? Unfortunately all demos I've seen focus on its quack capabilities, which are in fact unwanted in a dub scenario.
There's also the BOSS AW-3 Dynamic Wah but it looks like this is even more quacky.
