Moogerfooger MF-101 Lowpass Filter Pedal alternative

[el murdoque]

@sunbeast says it how it is.
The MF-101 has that fat, chewy sound that most others don't get.
It is huge and it is noisy, though.
One pedal that is flying a bit under the radar, totally undeserved, is the Dr. Scientist Dusk.

What makes it special?
-Same as the MF-101, you can plug in an expression pedal and use it as a low pass without the envelope.
-Unlike most other analog low pass envelopes, you can control most of the Dusk via MIDI.

 

[GrayGoesBlack]

What I find hard to find in a LPF pedal, that the MF-101 has, other than the awesome sound, is a mix control and using the envelope together with a expression pedal to the cut-off filter. I never tried the Source Audio stuff, maybe that can do that, but I'm weary of editing stuff through a computer. That is just not for me.
I hope that the new Moog-owners see the financial benefit of reissueing the whole pedal line, because it was so good. If Behringer ever comes out with the boogerfoogers, that might even tempt me, even though I loathe that company.

 

[Phaidrus]

I haven’t used a Nano Qtron, but ideally you need a Frequency control of some sort to dial in the LPF to the right frequency. If you turn the Drive on the Nano all the way off in LP mode maybe it can do a fixed filter at some frequency, but I don’t know for sure. Ideally look for filters that have a Frequency control and/or an expression input

Do you think the Broughton LPF pedal would provide the simple fatness I'm looking for or have I completely misunderstood what it's all about?

 

[jkmtl]

This is an interesting thread. The way he's using his MF-101 is similar to how the dub and reggae guys would use the Mu-Tron III, without the filter opening up so that it makes a big fat sound. Especially since, as sunbeast suspects, he's using it in 2-pole mode and not 4-pole.

In theory, any envelope filter with a sensitivity and frequency setting could recreate this sound - of course in practise it might not be so easy. Also, if you want to pedal to do more than that one sound, it would affect your choice.

If you were to get a pedal specifically for that sound, I would also recommend the Dr Scientist Dusk (if a genuine MF-101 or a Xerograph Deluxe were out of the question). It has an amazing sounding filter - my personal gripe was that the envelope part of the filter was less than ideal. But with manual control there's nothing I've heard that comes close in that price range.

Another pedal that came up in my thread about envelope filters was the EHX Enigma Qballs. I haven't tried it, but I hope to pick one up eventually to try it out. It seems like you can control all the parameters you could wish for, and is relatively inexpensive, even though it's discontinued.

I should have a bit of time this weekend, I'm going to try and recreate his sound with the filter pedals at my disposal.

 

[Phaidrus]

This is an interesting thread. The way he's using his MF-101 is similar to how the dub and reggae guys would use the Mu-Tron III, without the filter opening up so that it makes a big fat sound. Especially since, as sunbeast suspects, he's using it in 2-pole mode and not 4-pole.

In theory, any envelope filter with a sensitivity and frequency setting could recreate this sound - of course in practise it might not be so easy. Also, if you want to pedal to do more than that one sound, it would affect your choice.

If you were to get a pedal specifically for that sound, I would also recommend the Dr Scientist Dusk (if a genuine MF-101 or a Xerograph Deluxe were out of the question). It has an amazing sounding filter - my personal gripe was that the envelope part of the filter was less than ideal. But with manual control there's nothing I've heard that comes close in that price range.

Another pedal that came up in my thread about envelope filters was the EHX Enigma Qballs. I haven't tried it, but I hope to pick one up eventually to try it out. It seems like you can control all the parameters you could wish for, and is relatively inexpensive, even though it's discontinued.

I should have a bit of time this weekend, I'm going to try and recreate his sound with the filter pedals at my disposal.

Very interesting, thanks. What caught my attention in the video with the Dub Spencer bassist above is that his dub tone out of the Moogerfooger is very natural, just fat thick bass. No 80s and 90s synth stuff, despite the fact that it comes out of a synth pedal. I've listened to some vids featuring the MXR M82 pedal and it sounds very synthy and unnatural.

The Xerograph and Xerograph Deluxe are out of production, it seems, and although not as expensive as a MF-101, it is still an investment. I've already asked in this thread whether a simple low pass filter would do the trick, like the Broughton LPF pedal. What do you think?

Looking forward to the results of your forthcoming experimentation this weekend.

 

[jkmtl]

Unfortunately, I have no experience with the Broughton LPF pedal, so I have no opinion.

 

[sunbeast]

Do you think the Broughton LPF pedal would provide the simple fatness I'm looking for or have I completely misunderstood what it's all about?

An LPF like the Broughton may well get you close, though I haven't tried it- I suspect his filter is more intended to act like a more versatile tone control, but the basic idea is the same and early Reggae bass was made using a passive tone control on the bass (a 12db/octave filter like used in the Broughton LPF is the same general thing as a 2-pole filter, though the topology and response are likely a bit different in the Moog) and he may even have a bit of resonance built in to his filter which would get it even closer. Envelope filters use what is called a “resonant filter” because they have a resonant peak right at the cutoff frequency that emphasizes a small sliver of frequencies and gives the sound much of its character (its what makes a filter "quack" or "wow" when it sweeps). On the Moog, the “Q” control controls the size of this resonant peak, but I believe even with the Q turned all the way down there is still some resonance. Its hard for me to tell from your Instagram clip just how much resonance he is using, but it doesn't really sound like much to my ears so the Broughton LPF may well be able to get in the ballpark. The Broughton Resonant Filter EQ would be an even more versatile option since it gives you control over this resonant cutoff peak. You might try to message @Azure Skies to get his opinion.

Another good point mentioned above is about the Moog's Mix control, which allows you to mix in some of the clean signal (though may not be strictly necessary for this kind of dub tone)

 

[sunbeast]

This is an interesting thread. The way he's using his MF-101 is similar to how the dub and reggae guys would use the Mu-Tron III, without the filter opening up so that it makes a big fat sound. Especially since, as sunbeast suspects, he's using it in 2-pole mode and not 4-pole.

In theory, any envelope filter with a sensitivity and frequency setting could recreate this sound - of course in practise it might not be so easy. Also, if you want to pedal to do more than that one sound, it would affect your choice.

If you were to get a pedal specifically for that sound, I would also recommend the Dr Scientist Dusk (if a genuine MF-101 or a Xerograph Deluxe were out of the question). It has an amazing sounding filter - my personal gripe was that the envelope part of the filter was less than ideal. But with manual control there's nothing I've heard that comes close in that price range.

Another pedal that came up in my thread about envelope filters was the EHX Enigma Qballs. I haven't tried it, but I hope to pick one up eventually to try it out. It seems like you can control all the parameters you could wish for, and is relatively inexpensive, even though it's discontinued.

I should have a bit of time this weekend, I'm going to try and recreate his sound with the filter pedals at my disposal.

The EHX Enigma is a killer filter, and I even mentioned it above as an option for this tone. The only thing missing is a Level control (but the Moog has this same problem!). I have both the EHX and Moog and sometimes use them together (since the Enigma can do a downward filter sweep that the Moog can't). The Enigma has a great envelope sweep with tons of control and a great manual filter action as well. Shame its discontinued!

 

[aglide]

Yeah, I don't think the regular Broughton LPF has any resonant peak at the cutoff. The Broughton Resonant Filter EQ (RFE) on the other hand, is amazing at this. They only come out in batches occasionally, and they sell out quick. I think there's a new batch coming down the pipeline though.

 

[jkmtl]

The EHX Enigma is a killer filter, and I even mentioned it above as an option for this tone. The only thing missing is a Level control (but the Moog has this same problem!). I have both the EHX and Moog and sometimes use them together (since the Enigma can do a downward filter sweep that the Moog can't). The Enigma has a great envelope sweep with tons of control and a great manual filter action as well. Shame its discontinued!

Oh boy, there's one available second hand nearby for a good price, I may have to pick it up.... I seem to be collecting envelope filters.

 

[jkmtl]

Thread has really gotten the wheels turning. Sorry I'm kind of hijacking it.

Last night I tried to get a similar tone with my Xerograph Deluxe, out of curiosity. I know you're not interested in getting the XD, and I understand, I held off for a long time too, for the same reasons. Anyways, I didn't A/B my sound with the IG clip, I just tried to get a big fat sound using the same general concept. And I succeeded. To the extent that anytime I turned off the pedal, I just wanted to turn it back on again - my regular bass tone sounded thin and brittle in comparison. I'm trying to understand why it sounded so good, I think I might run it into a spectral analysis sometime soon to figure it out.

I'm curious if the OP will find a cheaper, more available pedal to get this kind of tone, because I'd be interested as well. As much as I love the sound I'm getting with the XD, I'm not crazy about using this pedal basically as a preamp....

 

[Stranger Danger]

Iron Ether Dubterrograph but they’re pretty expensive too and hard to find. Never mind

The Behringer looks promising but not sure why they haven’t made them yet because they have been talking about them for the better part of a year

 

[Phaidrus]

Thread has really gotten the wheels turning. Sorry I'm kind of hijacking it.

Last night I tried to get a similar tone with my Xerograph Deluxe, out of curiosity. I know you're not interested in getting the XD, and I understand, I held off for a long time too, for the same reasons. Anyways, I didn't A/B my sound with the IG clip, I just tried to get a big fat sound using the same general concept. And I succeeded. To the extent that anytime I turned off the pedal, I just wanted to turn it back on again - my regular bass tone sounded thin and brittle in comparison. I'm trying to understand why it sounded so good, I think I might run it into a spectral analysis sometime soon to figure it out.

I'm curious if the OP will find a cheaper, more available pedal to get this kind of tone, because I'd be interested as well. As much as I love the sound I'm getting with the XD, I'm not crazy about using this pedal basically as a preamp....

Hey, you're not hijacking anything. All responses are appreciated and thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts.

In case you're referring to me, it's not that I'm not interested in getting the XD as I do not want to buy a certain pedal and exclude any other. The fat tone in the Instagram video is quite impressive (I'm into reggae dub myself) and since, unfortunately, the MF-101 is discontinued and second-hand units are quite expensive, I'm looking for possible alternatives. Unfortunately, again, Iron Ether units are also discontinued/not available to purchase new and they too are quite expensive to obtain second-hand.

Haven't found any alternative yet. The tone Im getting out of my gear (Pbass + flats, Markbass Compressore tube compressor, Markbass LMV head with tube preamp, Markbass 104HR cab) is sweet but the extra "natural" fatness of the moog, or of any pedal for that matter, would be welcome.

I've been considering a number of possibilities, like an EQ pedal, of a low pass filter like the Broughton, or the affordable EHX nano Qtron but I have the impression they will not help much. So, I don't know.

 

[Phaidrus]

Yeah, I don't think the regular Broughton LPF has any resonant peak at the cutoff. The Broughton Resonant Filter EQ (RFE) on the other hand, is amazing at this. They only come out in batches occasionally, and they sell out quick. I think there's a new batch coming down the pipeline though.

Do you thing the presence of resonant peak at the cutoff frequency of a LPF is crucial for a "natural" (i.e. not synth-like) fat tone?

 

[Dr. Gonzo82]

Haven't found any alternative yet. The tone Im getting out of my gear (Pbass + flats, Markbass Compressore tube compressor, Markbass LMV head with tube preamp, Markbass 104HR cab) is sweet but the extra "natural" fatness of the moog, or of any pedal for that matter, would be welcome.

Your setup, bass, strings and amp is so different than the one in the video. Even if you get a mf101 you might not get that exact tone.

Have you tried an octave pedal to fatten up your tone ? Boss oc-5, mxr vbo, or the markbass one are available at Thomann.

 

[Phaidrus]

Your setup, bass, strings and amp is so different than the one in the video. Even if you get a mf101 you might not get that exact tone.

Have you tried an octave pedal to fatten up your tone ? Boss oc-5, mxr vbo, or the markbass one are available at Thomann.

You're right, very different setups, He's using an SVT Pro through two Ampeg 4x10s, I think. He's playing an active Jtype bass and as of strings, no idea. But I'm not going for the exact same tone, just for more fatness. As the MF-101 adds fatness to his tone, I suppose it would also add to mine.

Haven't in fact tried an octaver but have watched numerous videos and in all instances such pedals sound too artificial, like an 80s synth type of tone, which is not my cup of tea. The Moogerfooger sounds (in this vid) very "natural", just deep, thick bass.

 

[sunbeast]

Do you thing the presence of resonant peak at the cutoff frequency of a LPF is crucial for a "natural" (i.e. not synth-like) fat tone?

I suspect most LP filters naturally have some resonance there by design, but you’d have to message Broughton to see what exactly theirs is doing. The resonance just adds a lot of versatility/character. I suspect the Broughton LPF pedal sounds plenty “natural” though, just might not have quite the same character as the Moog but it’s really corksniffing.

Really for a basic emulation of that Moog clip you could utilize any number of filter options probably including the simple Broughton LPF or even better their RFP. EHX Enigma is probably easy enough to find and a great alternative, Dusk as someone else mentioned, OBNE Float, probably most pedals that have an expression input for cutoff frequency can be dialed in to do a static filter like this. Also any LPF envelope filter that has a sensitivity control that can be turned down will have some fat fixed filter tone in it. The old discontinued DOD FX25 filter is famous for this sort of use (turn the sensitivity off and it is just a static resonant filter at a useful dub-ish frequency).

Another idea that hasn’t been brought up yet is the idea of a LPF preamp unit- Wal and Alembic basses are both known for the use of Resonant Low-pass Filter onboard preamps, and there are a few companies that make preamps inspired by these. Lusithand in the UK makes a reasonably affordable preamp called the NFP I believe (“notch filter preamp”, though it is a resonant peaking filter in reality). I have one of his preamps that I built into a pedal box on my pedalboard and it can totally do this kind of tone. There are other companies that make them too (J-Tex and a few others), but all the others I know are American so the Lusithand might be more economical for you. John East makes a filter preamp (originally only sold through ACG guitars in the UK) as well, though his might be expensive overkill in a pedal form (I have one in a bass and it kills though, and has fully adjustable Q and filter per pickup).

Lusithand NFP (the pot selects the LPF cutoff frequency, and you can pull it up to get a resonant peak at the cutoff- I think there is a 3dB peak inherently then the boosted peak is 6dB or maybe more): Single NFP - Lusithand Devices

You could put one of these onboard a bass too (as they weee intended for) and have that dub tone even without a pedalboard.

 

[doran.dragic]

In my opinion Xerograph Deluxe does a better job than the Source Audio. I own the C4 which basically has the same filter section and even though it has both 2 and 4 pole modes (and also many others) I felt like XD was getting me much better sounds. Also XD can self oscillate which is great if you're looking to use it for sound design (the Source Audio can not).

The problem I have with XD is that its controls are very delicate. I found it hard to dial in the sounds that I wanted fast and reliably so I sold it (twice). This is also why I kept the C4. If there was a way to store presets on the XD I'd never sell it.

 

[Phaidrus]

I suspect most LP filters naturally have some resonance there by design, but you’d have to message Broughton to see what exactly theirs is doing. The resonance just adds a lot of versatility/character. I suspect the Broughton LPF pedal sounds plenty “natural” though, just might not have quite the same character as the Moog but it’s really corksniffing.

Really for a basic emulation of that Moog clip you could utilize any number of filter options probably including the simple Broughton LPF or even better their RFP. EHX Enigma is probably easy enough to find and a great alternative, Dusk as someone else mentioned, OBNE Float, probably most pedals that have an expression input for cutoff frequency can be dialed in to do a static filter like this. Also any LPF envelope filter that has a sensitivity control that can be turned down will have some fat fixed filter tone in it. The old discontinued DOD FX25 filter is famous for this sort of use (turn the sensitivity off and it is just a static resonant filter at a useful dub-ish frequency).

Another idea that hasn’t been brought up yet is the idea of a LPF preamp unit- Wal and Alembic basses are both known for the use of Resonant Low-pass Filter onboard preamps, and there are a few companies that make preamps inspired by these. Lusithand in the UK makes a reasonably affordable preamp called the NFP I believe (“notch filter preamp”, though it is a resonant peaking filter in reality). I have one of his preamps that I built into a pedal box on my pedalboard and it can totally do this kind of tone. There are other companies that make them too (J-Tex and a few others), but all the others I know are American so the Lusithand might be more economical for you. John East makes a filter preamp (originally only sold through ACG guitars in the UK) as well, though his might be expensive overkill in a pedal form (I have one in a bass and it kills though, and has fully adjustable Q and filter per pickup).

Lusithand NFP (the pot selects the LPF cutoff frequency, and you can pull it up to get a resonant peak at the cutoff- I think there is a 3dB peak inherently then the boosted peak is 6dB or maybe more): Single NFP - Lusithand Devices

You could put one of these onboard a bass too (as they weee intended for) and have that dub tone even without a pedalboard.

Thanks for taking time to reply. Very interesting information and a number of possibly good options. It looks like the Broughton LPF is the most affordable choice that will do the trick (Broughton RFE is out of stock).

But may I ask a naive question, excuse my ignorance. Since a low pass filter is cutting off all frequencies above a cutoff point (in the case of the Broughton LPF this is 220Hz it seems) why is it not possible to achieve the same end result (i.e. a dubby tone) simply by using the EQ knobs of the amp* - turn highs and hi mids completely off and keep the lows and some low mids?

* According to Markbass:

• LOW: center frequency: 68 Hz; level: ±16 dB
• LOW MID: center frequency: 400 Hz, level: ±16 dB
• HIGH MID: center frequency: 2200 Hz, level: ±16 dB
• HIGH: center frequency: 10 KHz, level: ±16 dB

 

[never-enough]

Do you thing the presence of resonant peak at the cutoff frequency of a LPF is crucial for a "natural" (i.e. not synth-like) fat tone?

the Broughton low pass filter will just remove all of the treble frequencies but won’t alter the low frequencies in any way. it is a great piece of gear but won’t do what you are looking for on its own as there’s no envelope filter, and as mentioned even with the moog gain set to minimum it still adds a certain girth to the sound.

I’ll try and mess around with my JoshWah to see how close it gets, I haven’t tried to get that low passed sound from it before. it is one of the few envelope filters with a drive control.
as already mentioned the xerograph deluxe will do what you want but is obviously not so readily available.