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Most iconic hard rock/metal amp & speaker?

#262
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#263
@agedhorse ...... Andy, I have never pondered the subject of this thread.... But if it is of any worth, I suppose this is what I would like...... I suppose the BB750 was the answer to the standard MP for rock and metal players? But the MP does sound tubier and sits really well in the mix, despite it's clean character. So I suppose I would suggest removing the 2nd volume and replacing it with an overdrive channel, and adding a limiter........ With a class D power section. That would be metal to me.

EDIT: Now I've been thinking more about what I posted above ...... I'm sure an MP with it's para. Eq might be too much for a lot of people...... So I would include the M6 and BB lovers with getting rid of the eq. and adding the switchable (M6) voice option? I liked that about the M6 a lot, but not enough to switch?
 
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#265
Riff Ranger said:
How would you tweak the Carbine to make it the amp we would mention, i.e. bump it up into iconic territory?
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Better master volume - By the time I put the gain where I want it in mid boost mode (voice 2) the master volume is super touchy and jumps from off to loud somewhere between 7:30 and 7:31 on the dial. I think that scares people off when demoing it in a store.

Price/options - For years I could afford an M6 but I couldn't afford the M9; but, because the M9 was available I wouldn't even consider the M6. I have a similar issue with the Prodigy/Strategy, Single/Dual Rectifier, and V4B/SVT. If it appears there's a flagship and a beginners version i'm going to want the flagship, and if I can't afford the flagship I won't buy either of them.
 
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#267
Riff Ranger said:
Used Carbines seem quite reasonable now, otherwise I could only dream, haha/groan.
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I've been watching Reverb and the average price for an M6 is $600 - 900 on the used market, which I think is a bit high for an older, heavy, amp.
"mesa carbine" Gear

It does go to show that quality gear almost always retains a solid resale value (says the guy who is thinking it may be impossible to sell a mint SVT head for any kind of real money)
 
#268
agedhorse said:
That certainly buys a LOT more power into both 4 and 2 ohms. That's exactly what we did with the ShuttleMax 12.0/12.0, and a lot of them went out to power a pair of 4 ohm cabinets. With the existing 800 watt amps, you would then have 800 watts per 4 ohm load... perfect for a pair of 410's, 212's or 215's.

Thoughts???
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It always looks good in theory but in my experience most players use a single cab so it defeats the point of an un-bridgable dual power amp.
 
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#269
jnsnj said:
Those 90s trace elliot's where the first amp I ever gas'ed for. Never got one. I might have to save up some cash and start looking.
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I rarely use them but I keep a couple old Trace heads around just because of my love for them when I was a kid. AH400SMX is my fave Trace.
 
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#270
andrew said:
It always looks good in theory but in my experience most players use a single cab so it defeats the point of an un-bridgable dual power amp.
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True, BUT my experience is that a player runs a 1200 watts amp into a single cabinet, often that cabinet isn't robust enough to be able to safely handle say 600 watts into a single 8 ohm cabinet (say an average 210, 115 or 112) or 1200 watts into 2 of those cabinets or a single average 410, 212 or 215. THIS is why I hesitate, and for those that do use average cabinets, the potential for destruction becomes more likely.

The same thing happened at the last new plateau, with the 800-900 watt modules, many lesser speaker cabinets did get damaged because the average cabinet is vulnerable at this level too. This is the reason we never offered the Shuttle 9.0/.2 as a combo, the speakers simply were not capable of that kind of power handling, many players don't have the best judgement in the heat of a gig that gets too loud for the rig.
 
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#271
SVT still rules it imho. The Fender Super Bassman is hitting big stages too now, as ppl discover that it can do the goods.
I'm thinking 90s thru to today, I see mostly SVT'S , SVT2PRO, and SVTII (NP) with Super Bassmans in there more.
Local acts, I see anything and everything. But, still, all valve heads mostly with GK as an occasional 2nd.
 
#272
agedhorse said:
True, BUT my experience is that a player runs a 1200 watts amp into a single cabinet, often that cabinet isn't robust enough to be able to safely handle say 600 watts into a single 8 ohm cabinet (say an average 210, 115 or 112) or 1200 watts into 2 of those cabinets or a single average 410, 212 or 215. THIS is why I hesitate, and for those that do use average cabinets, the potential for destruction becomes more likely.

The same thing happened at the last new plateau, with the 800-900 watt modules, many lesser speaker cabinets did get damaged because the average cabinet is vulnerable at this level too. This is the reason we never offered the Shuttle 9.0/.2 as a combo, the speakers simply were not capable of that kind of power handling, many players don't have the best judgement in the heat of a gig that gets too loud for the rig.
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Since we are talking rock and metal specifically it's rare to see a small cab, and these days I can't think of a 410,810, 215, etc. rated that low that it'd be a concern to pair with a 1000-1200w amp.
But even so, buyer beware. I wouldn't lessen the amp's potential wattage to protect a small percentage of players who will foolishly run it into a small/low rated cab. Ampeg has had the 1600 watt SVT 4 and at one time the 1350w SVT 5, I've never read any stories of people blowing up cabs with those amps. I'm sure someone has done just that but it's so rare to happen that it's not a concern about having an amp rated that high available.
 
#273
andrew said:
Since we are talking rock and metal specifically it's rare to see a small cab, and these days I can't think of a 410,810, 215, etc. rated that low that it'd be a concern to pair with a 1000-1200w amp.
But even so, buyer beware. I wouldn't lessen the amp's potential wattage to protect a small percentage of players who will foolishly run it into a small/low rated cab. Ampeg has had the 1600 watt SVT 4 and at one time the 1350w SVT 5, I've never read any stories of people blowing up cabs with those amps. I'm sure someone has done just that but it's so rare to happen that it's not a concern about having an amp rated that high available.
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Of course at the higher level it isn't as likely to be a problem, but it's likely that an amp like this would find its way into folks who don't have the same speaker resources. It is more common that you might imagine (I see this more firsthand in product support). That said, perhaps we allow Darwin to work his magic, and let the chips fall where they may?
 
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#274
donahue said:
Honestly I don't know why it wasn't mentioned more. If I had to take a guess, I'd say price was a factor?
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I'm sure price is part of it, and the M9 came out just as the rise of class D was starting so it was likely too heavy and too big to a lot of players (hah, what a day we live in when a 28lb two rack space amp is too big and heavy). And it's not likely anyone but rock and metal guys predominantly feel the need to have that much wattage on tap, but I never noticed any real push to market the amp to those players specifically.
It has a bit of the G-K "strong ss power amp" charm and response, and the eq curve knob in positions 4 and 5 gives a bit of the old 70's mid forward solid state Acoustic and Sunn vibe to me. But able to be louder and cleaner if desired. It does a lot right for aggressive music. And takes pedals like a champ. Which is good because the one thing it doesn't do is get gritty (at least at humane levels). But it's easy to add a dirt pedal and the amp responds to them excellently.
 
#275
Jim C said:
I've been watching Reverb and the average price for an M6 is $600 - 900 on the used market, which I think is a bit high for an older, heavy, amp.
"mesa carbine" Gear

It does go to show that quality gear almost always retains a solid resale value (says the guy who is thinking it may be impossible to sell a mint SVT head for any kind of real money)
Click to expand...
"Reasonable" for me means closer to 500 USD than 1,000. Reasonable is subjective, of course, but 750 USD is objectively much more affordable than 2,400 USD for a new SVT, or even 1,500 USD for a used one.
 
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#277
agedhorse said:
Of course at the higher level it isn't as likely to be a problem, but it's likely that an amp like this would find its way into folks who don't have the same speaker resources. It is more common that you might imagine (I see this more firsthand in product support). That said, perhaps we allow Darwin to work his magic, and let the chips fall where they may?
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Yes, I'd bring the most bad ass, potentially iconic amp to market you can possibly make. Let Darwin sort the foolish out.
 
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