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Musicians Relief Fund........two years and counting

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#61
It is my understanding that any 501c3 deal legally has to provide an itemized list of income and expenditures upon someones request. I understand Mike is busy, but this is something of utmost importance to clear up, and the figures should already be itemized if the deal was ran properly anyway. Mike has spent enough time posting on here that could have been done already if the deal was properly documented. If not, that's a whole other can of worms.

It's my opinion that not only should Mike want to clear his name, but it is OWED to those who had donated. Take a minute and clear up your business instead of just punting it onto someone else.
 
#62
jive1 said:
I hear you there.

I think MikeW had good intentions although the execution was questionable. But, I'm not happy with the cavalier attitude regarding the donations either. It's natural for people to want accountability for donations. It's also natural that people get busy. I find that people on TB to be pretty understanding, and an apology goes a lot farther than excuses.

I ask that we get a resolution, and move on. Hopefully, we'll get it.
Click to expand...

Agreed! I do think BigMike had good intentions initially but his whole attitude when people ask questions about where the funds have gone and what's going on has been nothing but excuses and honestly some flat out lies (i.e. money was given to jeff). It still makes me wonder where the money went since it appears that the accounting records were one of the things that Tom was waiting to receive from Mike. I can help but think something is being hidden with the defensive attitude being given. Mike, do all TB'ers as well as yourself a favor and hand over the accounting records asap.

I 100% support stopping this and seeing if we can get some money back and donate it to another charity. I think with how ugly and drawn out this has become people are going to be extremely hesitant to donate any more money to the fund but I would still like to see a record of what money went where.

Take a minute and clear up your business instead of just punting it onto someone else.
Click to expand...

+1,000,000
 
#63
IMHO, the least to be done - and to be done quickly now - is accounting, so that any donator can finally know how much was donated and how exactly the money was spent.

Otherwise, this will spread mistrust on any further charity that could be started here.
 
#65
I have to correct my post. I sent all 100 dollars to BMW and
waited for the cash from the student as he needed terms.

I have a copy of Personal Money Order from Bank of America
#033593 made out to 'MW or Human Capital' for $100
dated February 12th, 2007.

I also have a copy of FedEx airbill 8568 3521 0990 sent
2/12/2007 and delivered 2/13. B/L is made out to MW c/o
Human Capital at their address in North Hollywod CA. FedEx
tracking confirms the delivery. That can be viewed by
slugging in the tracking number into their website.

Here are the facts:

1) I was solicited on the (then stickied) thread above for Jeffbass28.
Referenced above.

2)I auctioned a piece of gear in the FS Accessories classifieds noting
why the gear was being auctioned. Referenced above.

3) I sent the money on Feb 12th to BMW. He received it Feb
13th. Proof of that transaction is available. Fedex reference
is on this post.

4) Intended donation recipient has posted he never received any
donations. His posts referenced above. No information to the contrary
has been presented by anyone.

5) Thus, my donation was used for some other purpose unbeknownst to me.

6) Middleman has consistently avoided accounting for
this situation in any factual manner. Adequately referenced
by posts on this and previous threads.

I don't think anyone would disagree with those facts. That's
what happened. Unfortunately, it paints an ugly picture.

While the original intentions may have been good, the facts
and subsequent actions speak for themselves.

This is exactly what Jive1 warned about at the time this
happened. To my chagrin, these warnings came true.
I got fleeced. I should have known better. Won't happen
again.

I guess the good thing is that there are people like
Embellisher and Bassic83 that light the way when it comes
to charitable works around here.

My .02.
 
#66
The only type of accounting we have received thus far from anyone affiliated with the fund is what Tom noted about the costs of filing a 501 which is somewhere in the range of $900. Tom also stated that he received no other funds, as well as JeffBass28. We also know that $3689 was raised for MikeBass - http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260528 . So, I'm guessing the question of funds would be above that amount and past 7/8/2006.

In two years, it's obvious there is no accounting available and/or an unwillingness to share this information. Otherwise, I'd imagine there would be a 501c3 completed by now and the speculation would be put to rest. At this point, I think the only way to account for this is to do it ourselves, ala Thor.

Thor donated $100 to JeffBass28 cause and appears to have confirmation of that. JuniorK stated in a previous thread that he donated $400 to it, but that isn't confirmed yet. So there's about $500 of the $900 for the fund. Now it's just a matter of putting together the rest.

I gave money to the fund for Mike Fredericks, and I don't care about accountability on that. It was a private endeavor, and I was totally happy to help on that. I think all similar donations shouldn't be called into issue because it was prior to the fund and a private endeavor. If anything, that was better accounted for in that we know how much was received, what Mike got, and know that Mike was really touched by it.

It's a serious matter. Either you have a well known TBer in MikeW getting his name dragged needlessly through the mud, or something fishy going on at the cost of TBers. To me, both of those are more serious than faking your death, having two user accounts, or being overly argumentative.

On a side note, I think this should be moved to OT. It really doesn't have to do with music, and much of the saga and solicitations began there anyway.
 
#67
jive1 said:
The only type of accounting we have received thus far from anyone affiliated with the fund is what Tom noted about the costs of filing a 501 which is somewhere in the range of $900. Tom also stated that he received no other funds, as well as JeffBass28. We also know that $3689 was raised for MikeBass - http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260528 . So, I'm guessing the question of funds would be above that amount and past 7/8/2006.

In two years, it's obvious there is no accounting available and/or an unwillingness to share this information. Otherwise, I'd imagine there would be a 501c3 completed by now and the speculation would be put to rest. At this point, I think the only way to account for this is to do it ourselves, ala Thor.

Thor donated $100 to JeffBass28 cause and appears to have confirmation of that. JuniorK stated in a previous thread that he donated $400 to it, but that isn't confirmed yet. So there's about $500 of the $900 for the fund. Now it's just a matter of putting together the rest.

I gave money to the fund for Mike Fredericks, and I don't care about accountability on that. It was a private endeavor, and I was totally happy to help on that. I think all similar donations shouldn't be called into issue because it was prior to the fund and a private endeavor. If anything, that was better accounted for in that we know how much was received, what Mike got, and know that Mike was really touched by it.

It's a serious matter. Either you have a well known TBer in MikeW getting his name dragged needlessly through the mud, or something fishy going on at the cost of TBers. To me, both of those are more serious than faking your death, having two user accounts, or being overly argumentative.

On a side note, I think this should be moved to OT. It really doesn't have to do with music, and much of the saga and solicitations began there anyway.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify the above phrasing 'appears', I emailed you pdf's
with scanned copies of the documentation I have as
verifiable proof. That is available to anyone with a legitimate
interest in this matter via email. Or you could confirm here that
the documentation is in order.
 
#68
I tried looking back at my paypal account but I couldn't get it to go any farther back than Dec. '06. I know that Tom can verify that I did indeed donate $400 since it was the final amount they were needing to finalize the filing of the paperwork.

also just found this list of donors while digging through my email...

Members who donated to the fund:
Biker4Him
Bassic83
burk48237
95JettaCity
markjazzbassist
Beav
The Crusader
joeyl
KJung
 
#71
andrewd said:
Man, totally forgot about this. Thor, I think I bought your Aguilar 924 for this.
Click to expand...

That is correct. Check my link to the FS thread, you were the
last poster in it. If you recall, I let you pay in 2 instalments.

I felt that this was a good deal because you got a DI you
needed, and Jeffbass28 (supposedly) was to get the proceeds
from the sale. An all around winner was how it
was supposed to work.
 
#73
Thor said:
Just to clarify the above phrasing 'appears', I emailed you pdf's
with scanned copies of the documentation I have as
verifiable proof. That is available to anyone with a legitimate
interest in this matter via email. Or you could confirm here that
the documentation is in order.
Click to expand...

Received, and they are in order. A $100 money order with proof of delivery to Mike Winnen.

So far - $100 in documented funds is known to be donated.
 
#77
I just read through this sad tale .... while I clearly remember the initial situation when contributions were sought out, I wasn't aware that these issues had cropped up. I do remember at the time thinking that, although quite well-intentioned, this was a very bad idea for an internet forum.

I'm not an attorney or accountant, but I do have some fairly significant administrative skills and everything I read here tells me that a proper accounting of all actions and funds may not be possible. Again, while likely well-intentioned at the start, administration of a 501(c)(3) is a burdensome task and it's evident that the originators of the "fund' had no idea of the undertaking ahead of them.

Mr. Bowlus's role in this was not intended to be the administrator of the "fund", as best I'm able to determine from read-through of the various threads. Mr. Winans' appears to have been over-whelmed by the task, and it seems that once the receipts were expended, any further administration of the "fund" was curtailed. If not for one or two contributors keeping it in the public view, this issue would be, as previously stated by someone above, toast .....

I have no horse in this race, so to speak, but it is inevitable that this issue will sink even further into murky waters if pursued. As much as no one likes to feel used/abused, especially in light of a charitable donation, it might be to everyone's benefit to let this issue rest.

If it is decided by the parties directly involved (either through donation, receipt or management of the funds) to pursue this matter further, I'd strongly suggest a disinterested 3rd party act to collect information and details and attempt to resolve this in the best interests of the individuals in the matter.

Frankly, I can't see any positive outcome from any of this, based on the information I've read in all of the pertinent threads. As hard as it is to "let it go", for the good of the forum and the participants, IMO, let this one go ....
 
#79
pointbass said:
Frankly, I can't see any positive outcome from any of this, based on the information I've read in all of the pertinent threads. As hard as it is to "let it go", for the good of the forum and the participants, IMO, let this one go ....
Click to expand...

I couldn't disagree more. For the good of the forum and participants, I think this should not be let go. I think full disclosure and accountability is warranted.
 
#80
Ed Fuqua said:
Wouldn't it just be easier to find out from the person who was supposed to be getting the money how much money they got?
Click to expand...

Ed, this was linked above.

The link is on this post
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6116225&postcount=50

Drill down through that and you will see that jeffbass28 states unequivocally on that post (and on the next post on
that thread, that he received nothing, even though the
solicitation was to have benefited him directly. See below.

Mike W states here ( can't quote it as the thread is closed):
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3813301&postcount=1


URGENT! 2 YEAR OLD GIRL IN OHIO NEEDS OUR HELP!!!! UPDATE!!!!

***We are up to about $1,000.00 We are going to need about $4,000 Great start folks. Let's keep it up!***

OK, I know many of you have been following what has been going on with Jeff Iams (jeff_bass28). Short recap. Ex-Girlfriend takes their 2 year old daughter, has her around an alleged pedophile, drug users and other people who have been in prison for other crimes.

She is blackmailing him to see his daughter. Wife lost job.

Tom Bowlus and I have been trying to help this guy (moreso Tom lately). Jeff's Ex took his car, he has only a partime job, he is behind on rent and bills and his ex is using the car to blackmail him (car for visiting daughter).

We have an attorney lined up that can do it for less money but not free. We need to reaise serious funds for him right now!

He needs a beeter job too. Anyone in Central Ohio that can give this guy a break PLEASE contact me.

We raise a lot of money for Mike Fredericks when he was sick and needed it. PLEASE help me raise funds for Jeff. His situationis getting worse and worse everyday. He is eligable for ZERO assistance from the state.

PLEASE send (and I hate to say this) AS MUCH AS YOU CAN via PayPal to:

[email protected]

Tom and I are finishing up things for the Charity and should be golden in a few weeks. Jeff can't wait though! Please help!
*** If you have extra gear (a pedal, small amp, etc.) that could be donated and sold to raise money for Jeff that would be great as well
__________________
Click to expand...

Bolding is mine.

This solicitation was not for the set up costs for a non-profit
charity. 'Jeff can't wait though! Please help.'

Jeff stated he received nothing.

Q. E. D.
 
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