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Musicians Relief Fund........two years and counting
- Thread starter Juniorkimbrough
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bongomania
Commercial User
So Tom doesn't know of the existence of any other funds; MikeW says all donations were spent on filing or donated to the private party for whom they were intended; but then he makes a big deal about his own financial troubles and how his family comes first.
Seems like the only way to settle this peaceably would be to provide a public accounting of every dollar donated and where it went.
Seems like the only way to settle this peaceably would be to provide a public accounting of every dollar donated and where it went.
JoshB
A great man is always willing to be little. -RWE
I agree...I think this would settle it, without the need for name calling, and hard feelings all around. I understand that Mike W has a lot on his plate, but I'm sure people would appreciate this, not to mention that if/when it is proved that things are on the up and up, this whole mess can be settled and put into the past, where it belongs IMO, and we can all move on with life.
Frankly, I think that the idea of the charity is a good one, and if I had the time and energy, I would take the reins on this, but the problem is that most of us are just as busy with family, life, jobs, etc as Tom and Mike and this charity is a baby that will require constant attention to help it grow into something more than it is now.
Just my $0.02...
- Mar 22, 2005
- 3,718
- 6
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Lakland Basses
Let me quote myself again.
Tom, I apologize that this has been thrown all on your shoulders. I realize that initially you only got involved to offer your legal help, apparently Mike wants the easy way out of this. I'm sorry he has put the burden on your shoulders. Please do not be mad at me since I have been persistant about seeing this thing through and not letting it just fade away.
I would be interested to see a statement showing where all the funds have gone aside from the filing fees.
Tom, I apologize that this has been thrown all on your shoulders. I realize that initially you only got involved to offer your legal help, apparently Mike wants the easy way out of this. I'm sorry he has put the burden on your shoulders. Please do not be mad at me since I have been persistant about seeing this thing through and not letting it just fade away.
I would be interested to see a statement showing where all the funds have gone aside from the filing fees.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
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- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
I offered to help Mike with this, because I thought it was a good cause. I still do. I think Mike's intentions were all good, as well. I will continue to do what I can to resolve this matter, though I regret to say that I do not have the time to commandeer this effort.
To the best of my knowledge, other than the filing fees, funds were used to help Mike Fredericks and his family when he was not able to work. If there are no funds left, I would presume that they all went to help Mike Fredericks.
Tom.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,951
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Well Tom, you could always chime in with the amount of the filing fees to get the ball rolling.
Off the top of my head, I know it was $125 for the Ohio Secretary of State to set up the corporation. I think the corporate record book was like $68 and some change. I will have to check with the accountant as to the 501(c)(3) filing fees. If for some reason, it is decided that this project should not go forward, we might be able to get that money back (since we never sent the application in, it's probably still sitting in his client trust account). As I recall, this fee was around $700.
Tom.
IIRC there were two seperate situations which money was being raised for. Mike Fredricks bass (which he received and has some of the coolest autographs on the back of it! ) and Jeff.
THis is the thread regarding Jeff:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308319
This is the thread regarding Mike's bass:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260528
This may help with the accounting for the funds for those who donated. It seems from the two threads posted, around $1000 was raised for Jeff and $3600 for Mike's bass. If Tom says about $900 was used for the filings, it should be reasonably easy for either Tom or Mike to account for the rest of the money raised. Presumably it all went through paypal or cheques, so there will be a paper trail. This thing can finally be put to rest.
) and Jeff. THis is the thread regarding Jeff:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308319
This is the thread regarding Mike's bass:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260528
This may help with the accounting for the funds for those who donated. It seems from the two threads posted, around $1000 was raised for Jeff and $3600 for Mike's bass. If Tom says about $900 was used for the filings, it should be reasonably easy for either Tom or Mike to account for the rest of the money raised. Presumably it all went through paypal or cheques, so there will be a paper trail. This thing can finally be put to rest.
- Mar 22, 2005
- 3,718
- 6
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Lakland Basses
I guess that's all the more reason that Mike and Tom "opening the books" on this one would help put this matter to rest. At the end of the day the money is either still with Mike and / or Tom or was spent. If it was spent, then by accounting for it, at least the donators can see where it went and decide how they want to proceed. If nothing else, it will bring transparency and closure and stop people speculating.
jive1
Commercial User
I imagine that to complete the 501 app you will need to demonstrate some financial accountability. Since it's taken over 2 years to get that stuff in, as well as there seeming to be an issue with the founder to publicly account for it, I don't see how it can progress forward.
My vote would be to drop the whole thing, and donate whatever funds are available to another, more established relief organization. If we can get an account of the dispersal of funds, it would be a bonus.
That may be how it started, but I was solicited for funds
for Jeffbass28. Not Mike.
As borne out by the following:
IIRC there were two seperate situations which money was being raised for. Mike Fredricks bass (which he received and has some of the coolest autographs on the back of it!
THis is the thread regarding Jeff:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308319
This is the thread regarding Mike's bass:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260528
This may help with the accounting for the funds for those who donated. It seems from the two threads posted, around $1000 was raised for Jeff and $3600 for Mike's bass. If Tom says about $900 was used for the filings, it should be reasonably easy for either Tom or Mike to account for the rest of the money raised. Presumably it all went through paypal or cheques, so there will be a paper trail. This thing can finally be put to rest.
Yes, that (the threads linked) is more accurate. Specifically with regards to gear sale,
first link, post 1.
See also post # 62 of that thread.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5417628&postcount=62
And, I went on record on that thread here, and will reiterate
what I said:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5422237&postcount=68
This post also links to the FS I did for charity for Jeff. That
specifies what the charity sale was for and to whom it was
to be disbursed. I did not donate for establishment of the non-profit, filing, accounting or incorporation fees. I donated solely for the benefit of Jeffbass28. Which is what I was
solicited for. Just for the record.
I had paid the first 50 I got directly to BigeMikeW. I had
andrewd, a music student in Boston pay BMW directly to
save on fees on the remaining 50 bucks for a total of a 100.
I never received a satisfactory answer as to who got what
disbursements.
Not too hard to do. Actually here is an example that would have sufficed:
Received: ####.00
Disbursed:
####.00 Legal
####.00 Acctng
####.00 Gift to ____ and ____ recipients.
'I'm too busy to answer' or 'I can't be bothered' is not acceptable answer to me.
I could be bothered to sell some gear. I could be bothered to send the money to help somebody out. Someone could be bothered to receive the money. But somebody can't be bothered to account for the disbursement of the funds.
'I spent it all, there's none left' is not an accounting.
Personally, I don't care if the non-profit goes through or not,
as I will never send another penny to whomever has the
fiduciary responsibilty; as I consider that responsibility to have
been abrogated long ago.
Thanks JuniorK, it needed to be said.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,951
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Yes, the budget aspect was one of the items I was waiting on from Mike.
Your idea of donating the remaining funds (if any, from the filing fee) to another charity is actually pretty much what I had in mind (and just PM'd you).
Tom.
jive1
Commercial User
At this point, closure would be the best thing. There's no need to drag this thing on. Anything that will close this chapter of the saga would be a good thing.
On a similar note, I don't think that this thread should be closed unless there is a TOS violation. For some reason, these threads seem to get closed when this information should be out there. The fact that this gets buried keeps this thing dragging on.
Let's get this done and over with.
jive1
Commercial User
I hear you there.
I understand that the Mike Frederick's bass was a private endeavor. We gave willingly and happily, without expectation of accountability or tax deduction or anything like that. We were helping a friend, and happy to do so.
But, the Musicians' Relief Fund was supposed to go beyond that. And, that is the issue here. The fund was supposed to be a scholarship and relief fund. People were asked to donate money, computers, gear, time, talents, etc. and they did. People were asked to donate for filing fees and we were told that the organization would be legit in a few weeks back in July of 2006. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260528 .
The rub is that things were solicited to the point of it being spam with calls to action like "sell what ever gear you can", "donate as much as you can", and "funds are needed urgently". Yet, people still gave out of their compassion. Now there's an air of being cavalier with the donations - quick to ask, slow to send, and slow to account for. Then when the heat gets hot, it gets thrown on someone else's lap. People are busy, family comes first, and much can change in a couple of years - I can fully understand that. But, that has to be taken into consideration when soliciting donations and putting together an organization like this.
There were people who were targeted to receive benefits such as JeffBass28. He posted a while back that he never received a penny. Considering that donation threads for him were spammed on every forum make the rub even worse. It's what led to the donation discussion and eventually the banning of donation threads. It's because of the potential of something like this happening, regardless of how much reassurance was given, or how well known a TB user is, or how philanthropic the intentions are. We all get busy and have other priorities that change over time so you have to take this stuff seriously.
Maybe some folks are suspecting malfeasance, but I'm not thinking that. I think MikeW had good intentions although the execution was questionable. But, I'm not happy with the cavalier attitude regarding the donations either. It's natural for people to want accountability for donations. It's also natural that people get busy. I find that people on TB to be pretty understanding, and an apology goes a lot farther than excuses.
Moral of the story - Be careful what you ask for. You might get it.
I ask that we get a resolution, and move on. Hopefully, we'll get it.
- May 30, 2000
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- Creator of: iGigBook Sheet Music Manager
So who's going to decide whether or not the project goes forward or not? Which individual or comittee will be deciding this?
To me it seems like this idea is toast, done, finito. The original force behind it is not even with it anymore and nobody will be picking up any ball and running with it.
In the event that you recoup funds, how do you and who do you reimburse? You could donate it to some other bonafide charity, however the donors could have given money to that all along if they wanted to.
Note these questions are not specifically directed at you but this particular sticky item is stuck to your hand at the moment.
jive1
Commercial User
There is a simple way to account for funds for Musician's Relief on our own using some reverse engineering.
1) Start a thread in OT to find out how much each person donated.
2) Each donator can post or send to an "accountant" how much was given. You can use a screenshot of a paypal transaction or something like that for confirmation if you want to get technical. You can even sort them as confirmed funds or unconfirmed funds, or Musician's Relief vs MikeBass's fund, etc.
3) Total up all the donations and find the difference between the costs of webhosting, filing fees, etc and see if there is a discrepancy at all. We may find that there isn't any, or that a whole lot less was donated than we thought.
1) Start a thread in OT to find out how much each person donated.
2) Each donator can post or send to an "accountant" how much was given. You can use a screenshot of a paypal transaction or something like that for confirmation if you want to get technical. You can even sort them as confirmed funds or unconfirmed funds, or Musician's Relief vs MikeBass's fund, etc.
3) Total up all the donations and find the difference between the costs of webhosting, filing fees, etc and see if there is a discrepancy at all. We may find that there isn't any, or that a whole lot less was donated than we thought.
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