Musicianship vs showmanship

[AlexBassMP]

I believe that it depends of the situation...but most of the times is a blend of both.

Severals months ago a Scorpions tribute band opened for us... The played so f*cking good.... The singer and one of the guitar players were dressed like if they put on the first outfit they found in the closet.. One of the guitar players stood besides his amp the whole show and wearing glasses..not sunglasses, real glasses. I wear glasses too...but I put'en off before the shows. The singer had a groove metal attitude moer than a the Klaus Meine approach.. Hard to say this by the only one who did cared about having a stage presence was the bass player... Musicianship : 100% Showmanship : 20% Don't expect that I'm gonna see them again.

In the same gig we're playing one of our songs and suddenly the keyboard track stopped (We used prerecorded synth parts)...we had a technical issue ... At this moment we had a guest female singer wiht us to sing that song... More experienced and talented than us .. She started to sing a Janis Joplin song , a capella, with all her passion and making clap the hands to the crowd...she took the responsability to keep people entertained while soundguy was working on the keyboard issue...

Musicianship by itself doesn't make all the job.

 

[two fingers]

A bar gig isn’t about the music. It’s about keeping jerks, and those they gather around them, happy.

A few things I’ve learned from playing bar gigs over the years:

1. The biggest jerk the bar is willing to tolerate sets the tone for the rest of the crowd.

2. Jerks attract other jerks. Once you get a regular who’s also a complete jerk, other jerks will start showing up in droves.

3. Anytime there’s a room full of jerks, there’s intense and ongoing competition to see who’s the undisputed biggest jerk of all.

4. Since about half the people operating bars are themselves total jerks, behaving like a jerk is not merely tolerated, it’s encouraged anyplace you find one of them in charge.

Ha! Soooooooooo..... The problem is not your band. It's that everyone who owns, works at and goes to bars is a jerk.


Uh... .. . OK. Whatever helps you sleep at night, pal.

 

[HeadWind]

Why would playing music be different from any other endeavor? My day job is in engineering. I went to school for many years and learned all sorts of complex stuff (basically woodshedding with books). But for the people hiring me, yeah I need to use this stuff I learned, but more often than not what makes or breaks the deal is scheduling, budgeting, meetings, proposals, metrics, etc.

So for my vocation, I would love to just do calculations and drawings, but I can't because then I probably would be out of a job.

For my avocation, I would love to focus solely on the musicianship, but I can't because then I wouldn't get any gigs.

The very most talented may be able to pull off doing just what they love, but it is very difficult.

 

[Mike Sorr]

What a brilliant concept! Too bad it comes decades after learning theory, scales and thousands of songs. For some reason, I just can't imagine a big time performer (Sting, Billy Joel, The Eagles...) padding a set with toilet jokes. Maybe this particular night with this particular crowd it worked, but it doesn't sound like a successful business plan. You did say the band you saw was a "party" band. Maybe that's the highest level of entertainment the audience requires.

Has anyone watched the Grammys lately? I’m not even sure they feature music in it anymore, never mind “good” music which requires a level of virtuosity to play. I hate to sound like an old guy complaining about these damned kids...but these damned kids listen to crap. If you don’t ask for much musically, you’re likely going to get it. Or as Geddy Lee once said, “There are a lot of empty calories on the radio these days”.

 

[JimmyM]

Has anyone watched the Grammys lately? I’m not even sure they feature music in it anymore, never mind “good” music which requires a level of virtuosity to play. I hate to sound like an old guy complaining about these damned kids...but these damned kids listen to crap. If you don’t ask for much musically, you’re likely going to get it. Or as Geddy Lee once said, “There are a lot of empty calories on the radio these days”.

Our parents said the same thing about our music, their parents said the same thing about theirs, etc. etc. etc. If newer musicians are pissing off the old folks, the only thing I have to say is, "Well done, kids!"

 

[SteveHeissner]

I play in two bands.

Band one dresses up in costume and plays mindless 80's hairband covers like Poison, Motley Crue, that sort of crap. The musicians are solid but not flashy. We rehearse a few times a year at most. The front man is brilliant at working the crowd, especially the women.

Band two plays blues and obscure "deep cuts" the audience largely doesn't know. We try to be great musicians and rehearse almost every Sunday.

Band one gets the gigs, packs the bars, gets paid and treated with respect by bar owners. Band two ends up opening for other bands or playing no pay charity gigs but gets to play what they like. It's a trade-off.

 

[40Hz]

Ha! Soooooooooo..... The problem is not your band. It's that everyone who owns, works at and goes to bars is a jerk.


Uh... .. . OK. Whatever helps you sleep at night, pal.

Twofer…what’s with the “pal” thing? Nobody’s knocking you or any other band for what they feel they need to do. It’s a big world. I go my own way. And I’m perfectly good with somebody choosing a completely different path. Far be it from me to interfere with somebody else’s karma. I don’t ever presume to tell anybody what to do. I’ll only tell someone what they can or can’t do around me. Otherwise, like the song says: “Ain’t nobody’s business but your own.”

And I did not say everyone you meet in a bar is a jerk. But the ratio of jerks to normals is definitely higher in bars from what I’ve seen.

And yes, if we fail to connect with the audience, it is completely the band’s fault. Because we’re either playing for the wrong audience or we’ve failed to win them over. I have no trouble accepting full responsibility for that.

But that has nothing to do with the fact there’s a lot of jerks running and populating bars these days. And a good number if them are there to get drunk or in hopes of getting laid.

And by the same token, whether or not they get drunk or lucky is not my band’s responsibility.

So there’s some division of responsibilities right there. I’m more than happy to handle mine. I’ll let the jerks take care of their own. And I’d suspect some people there will end up liking us and our music in spite of all that.

Note: Just for the record, I sleep like a baby at night. Thank you for asking.

 

[Mike Sorr]

Our parents said the same thing about our music, their parents said the same thing about theirs, etc. etc. etc. If newer musicians are pissing off the old folks, the only thing I have to say is, "Well done, kids!"

Meh, I think there's a difference. I'm not saying all new music is garbage, but the stuff that sells sure seems to be. I think a classic example of this is last night's Super Bowl halftime show. I couldn't tell you what the songs sounded like, but there were lots of lights, and costumes and dancing and a band that may or may not have been pre-recorded. At least there was a guy with a bass on the stage. Now, I admit that I am not a fan of the "artist" or his "music", but I'm sure he lives like a king and sells millions of records to people who spend money on him for costumes, light shows, dancing...oh, and maybe some music too way down on the list.

 

[40Hz]

It's a trade-off.

This.

One guy sees it as “selling out.”

The other insists it’s “buying in.”

We each find a weltanschauung we can live with. (Some things can just be said better in German than in any other language. )

 

[mohrds]

A show with perfectly played music with little to no stage show will have people tell their friends that "It was a good show"
A show with a band that engages and entertains the audience with decent musical performances will have people running to tell their friends "what an awesome show" they were at.

Plus, no woman has ever thrown her bra at someone who does a boring, but perfectly-timed performance

 

[Felken]

Music. I'm not sure if any of you noticed, but famous bands, the ones we all love, are focused on playing good music during their concerts. Band that rely on jokes and drinking games to put on a good show rarely go beyond bar gigs.

Foo Fighters are one exception. Most of their concert features Grohl talking incessantly. I can't stand it.

What I do is play as best I can and have fun doing it. Smile, play around, enjoy it.

I think Rush represents the ultimate level of stage performance. They focus on the music, but their concerts are pleasant and personal.

 

[Jimmy4string]

Got to have that balance! cant we have both?! I like a good rock cover band that dresses the part and sounds good. No talking please!! I will let them slide if they put on a track for Van Halen's Jump but personally too much of that is annoying. Most bar crowds could care less though. They like to get drunk and hear the hits and sometimes play like they are on stage.
Drunk bar crowds -now THAT's America!

 

[mellowinman]

Ha! Soooooooooo..... The problem is not your band. It's that everyone who owns, works at and goes to bars is a jerk.


Uh... .. . OK. Whatever helps you sleep at night, pal.

I do not agree that everyone who owns, works at and goes to bars is a jerk.

Only about 1/2 of the people who work at bars are jerks.
Only about 90% of people who go to bars are jerks, and they're not always jerks, but usually are when they are in bars.
I do agree that everyone who owns a bar is a jerk, however, and I'll fight anyone who wants to.

 

[silvertone]

Back in '13 Local Legend Bob Weir excoriated an overly chatty (e.g. "entitled Marin County) audience to STFU due to their failure to listen to the band. Within 24 hours T-shirts with Weir's image and the words STFU were being sold by the Club in which it took place - The Sweetwater in Mill Valley... Notwithstanding the commercialization of the stunt, Weir has a point. Most people really want to hear the music, a smaller percentage are in a bar room for socialization - especially when paying excessively for the cost of entry.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

"In his very own ‘Shot Heard Round the World’ or, at least in the music world, Bob Weir told some chatting Kathy’s at Sweetwater Music Hall, and quite succinctly mind you, to “SHUT THE shag UP!” during RatDog‘s performance the other night. Now, we can’t really say we blame him; actually, he was well within his right. This nationwide epidemic of people carrying on conversations over the music has become a complete hindrance to not only the artists, but the fans as well. Some of us actually give a poopie as to what is going on up on the stage, as opposed to what Thad did to Miley (though, we can’t believe it either….soooo cray!).

As if the segue of Bobby saying “Hey, I’m not interrupting you am I?>The Walk Off Stage>Evil Glare” during his acoustic set wasn’t enough, these dip-***** (or possibly others that come from the same ilk) actually had the audacity to carry on their conversations INTO the RatDog set. We think Bobby only saying that short and sweet phrase was actually nice; he should have thrown his guitar at them (not that we promote violence here at L4LM….just sayin’).

I mean, that’s why we go to shows instead of bars. If we gave a poopie about who is screwing who, what this one said on Facebook, and if we actually believe that she would post that picture on Instagram of herself, than we would join you at a bar, or somewhere out in society so we could join in the nonsensical ********. But THAT is exactly why many of us choose go to shows instead. We enjoy the music, we pay good money to not only see it, but to most importantly, HEAR IT!

By speaking loudly at a concert while a musician/band is playing is an issue that shouldn’t even have to be broached. If you really feel that your conversation is that important, and needs to be heard, than go leave the general viewing area, go over to the bar or for a smoke, and tell your breaking news to someone who actually gives a poopie. No one is saying that you can’t say a few words here and there, but have some common decency for the musician’s playing their hearts out on stage, as well as for the people around you."

 

[JimmyM]

Meh, I think there's a difference. I'm not saying all new music is garbage, but the stuff that sells sure seems to be. I think a classic example of this is last night's Super Bowl halftime show. I couldn't tell you what the songs sounded like, but there were lots of lights, and costumes and dancing and a band that may or may not have been pre-recorded. At least there was a guy with a bass on the stage. Now, I admit that I am not a fan of the "artist" or his "music", but I'm sure he lives like a king and sells millions of records to people who spend money on him for costumes, light shows, dancing...oh, and maybe some music too way down on the list.

Well you can think there's a difference all you want, but the truth is that there's not. Justin Timberlake's fans feel the exact same as we did about the music we grew up with and loved, and our parents felt the exact same about the music we grew up with and loved as you do about Justin Timberlake.

 

[twinjet]

What about non musicians who make up the majority of most crowds? You think they feel that way?

Absolutely not. That's why I don't plan parties.

 

[dan1952]

For years I had a female vocalist in my band who could have done standup comedy. Made my job a lot easier.

 

[fhm555]

i’ve never gone for the show, it’s always been about the music for me. I think it’s because when most people only had an AM radio bringing in a couple stations and that was their connection to the musical world, i lived in a home with parents who had a collection of stereo components to play records and reel to reel tapes and knew where to order the records they wanted, which they did on a regular basis. In short, i was raised hearing a much wider variety of music more often than the average kid, and since record jackets back then were minimal at best and unmarked brown paper at worst, the only thing i knew was the name of the song, who did it and if i liked it or not. Years later i went to concerts and had a good time but i always felt the show was more distraction than attraction but i went anyway because i wanted to watch the bass players hands.
I was thinking about the often discussed topic regarding the decline in popularity of live music and after considering the changes wrought by technology i am of the opinion one of the major causes of the decline in demand for live music is the technoloy available these days.
When i was a teen we had records and maybe an eight track deck and our music selection was limited to whatever records and eight tracks were locally available. By that time record jackets were supplying ample fuel for fantasy, which was made real by the occasional show that would come through town. It was also a time when major population centers had a huge advantage over rural areas in terms of both variety and availability of music, but city or country concerts were all about the show for the most part because they were feeding into the fantasy created by the album jacket.
These days all the info you could want is available for the asking and i am once again consuming music as i did in my early youth only on a much larger scale.
With the availability of music and the ease of access, we have returned to a time when what we hear is more important than what we see. We no longer have to imagine “Eye Of The Tiger” as we work out and rather than become immersed in an album concept fantasy and look forward to the live recreation of that fantasy, we now simply use music as the constant soundtrack to our lives as we create our own fantasies and realities and set them to whatever music we feel best fits the moment.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Then why do most of us spend so much time perfecting our craft if it’s not what the majority of our audience really wants? Why not just woodshed dick and fart jokes, magic tricks, and drinking games?

Because it is the craft that distinguishes us. Anybody can tell a dirty joke. And, as I often say, I play in a band because the five of us together can do things we could not do on our own.

 

[jnsnj]

I tell my band mates that I consider myself a performer first and musician second. They hate that. How you perform on stage is part of what you should be practicing.