Musicianship vs showmanship

[two fingers]

I do not agree that everyone who owns, works at and goes to bars is a jerk.

Only about 1/2 of the people who work at bars are jerks.
Only about 90% of people who go to bars are jerks, and they're not always jerks, but usually are when they are in bars.
I do agree that everyone who owns a bar is a jerk, however, and I'll fight anyone who wants to.

I hate that you have had that experience.

Usually crowds around here are a pretty happy bunch. Every now and then a bullet proof Marine will come in looking for a fight. But, honestly, I give them a pass as long as nobody gets hurt. They are kind of conditioned to look for a fight and I certainly am glad they are ready when one comes looking. They usually get shown the door and are apologising on the way out.

Usually the staff around here are just college students trying to get by or older people who have been behind a bar for decades. They are usually easy to work with. I go out of my way to see to it that they have a good night so they take care of me too.

Most bar owners around here hug my neck when I show up. Sure, I have to talk a little trash to them to get paid enough. But the trash talk works and we have a good time all making money together.

There are exceptions. But most people in bars are OK 'round here.

Now retail? That's a different story. Oy. Around here employees in retail could stand lessons from people in the bar business.

 

[JimmyM]

Now retail? That's a different story. Oy. Around here employees in retail could stand lessons from people in the bar business.

But to be fair, I've worked in retail before, and I'm reminded of the words of the great philosophers Beavis and Butt-head..."Customers suck."

 

[two fingers]

But to be fair, I've worked in retail before, and I'm reminded of the words of the great philosophers Beavis and Butt-head..."Customers suck."

This is true. I'll grant you that.

But in the famous (OK not so famous) words of my grandfather "If you enjoyed everything about it, there probably wouldn't be a paycheck involved".

I get your point though. I did a few years hard labor at Lowe's in the early 90s. Got out early for good behavior and I plan on never going back.

 

[fishdreams]

I live in money/consumer driven society that allows for free expression (just not the garantuee to make money with free expression.)

So either the music or the money takes priority. I want to do the music I want to do?-great, and if that ever develops into a crowd pull/income situation, it's a nice added incentive. I want to make money?-great, and if that ever allows for playing music I want to play, than that is a nice added incentive.

I can't expect to have both at the same time.

I chose music and therefore, I am glad I have a day job that enables me to play exactly what I want to play. Which is difficult enough, as a matter of fact.

 

[SmokinJoe992]

Because WE want to .If you want the good gigs you should

I hate to admit it, but this is 100% correct from what I have seen. We as musicians are way more concerned with how perfect the music is than anyone in the audience (except for maybe other musicians). The bands that get the shows are the ones that are good at entertaining and promoting themselves. The music is only half of the story. I see a lot of mediocre bands playing all the time because they can promote themselves and put on a show. There is a band that plays often around here called "Here Come the Mummies" . They play big shows all the time. They are exceptional musicians and play great music. However, the fact that they dress up like Mummies and put on a great show probably has more to do with why they are so popular than their music.

 

[Wisebass]

jerks... they don' t know nothing, nobody cares, don 't like ..jerk...don' t this .jerk. no matter what you play, selling drinks, our role is like BS..for a jerk..and sooooooooo on......

your audiance $ugg$?????

Excuse me guys, you better stay at home.

may the bass be with you

Wise

 

[mellowinman]

I hate that you have had that experience.

Usually crowds around here are a pretty happy bunch. Every now and then a bullet proof Marine will come in looking for a fight. But, honestly, I give them a pass as long as nobody gets hurt. They are kind of conditioned to look for a fight and I certainly am glad they are ready when one comes looking. They usually get shown the door and are apologising on the way out.

Usually the staff around here are just college students trying to get by or older people who have been behind a bar for decades. They are usually easy to work with. I go out of my way to see to it that they have a good night so they take care of me too.

Most bar owners around here hug my neck when I show up. Sure, I have to talk a little trash to them to get paid enough. But the trash talk works and we have a good time all making money together.

There are exceptions. But most people in bars are OK 'round here.

Now retail? That's a different story. Oy. Around here employees in retail could stand lessons from people in the bar business.

I'm jaded. I've worked in the restaurant/bar business, and once was in a relationship with a stripper. People who own restaurants tend to be jerks. People who own bars tend to be bigger jerks. People who own strip clubs tend to be psychotic superjerks, who out-jerk just about everybody.

 

[SactoBass]

Whenever I am a member of the audience, I enjoy excellent musicianship as well as a good show. So when I am up on stage performing, I remind myself of that, so I try to provide the audience with both.

And as Forrest Gump once said, "and that's all I've got to say about that."

 

[Wesley R]

I saw Andres Segovia and he probably qualified as a skilled musician, and even he cracked a couple of jokes.

 

[pie_man_25]

Have you seen Steel Panther, Kiss, Lordi or GWAR? Also, didn't Parliament and sly and the family Stone put on a pretty flashy show?

For the most part, none of them are very "great" musicians. They're all at least competent of not good, don't get me wrong, but they all put on a kickass show, ditto with Alice Cooper, and many other acts I've seen other people mention on this thread. Some people want to see somebody pour themselves out onstage in an intimate manner, some people want to appreciate composition and mastery of musical craft. Others might not be too sure what they want to see, they just know they want to have a good time. ALL of these people want to see a show. There's nothing wrong with any of this, IMO. Except maybe for borderline racist humor - with that I can't abide.

There's a market for everything, and if you can carve a space for yourself in it, then awesome.

 

[Johnny Crab]

I believe in a certain balance between the music and interacting with the audience, but it left me completely baffled. I can’t be the only one that expects music when I go see a band, right? What’s more important to y’all?

Balance between the two depending on gig location, relationship to person(s) hiring the band, etc.

Generally four kinds of gigs, IMO:

1) Party time! Do the music good and work/involve the audience.

2) Play the music as best you can. Corporate gig, wedding, opening act for big name, etc...although we have turned weddings into #1.

3) You're wallpaper pal. Play for yourself/the band, very few folks are listening. Corporate gigs sometimes.

4) Private party, band knows the hiring person(s) and what they expect, play accordingly.

If your BL and band members can't read the audience or understand which of the above to "do", life is rough.

 

[Obese Chess]

I think if I saw a show like you did, I'd be pretty pissed.

That said, it all just depends on how a band strikes that balance. Let's take two examples: one of the best live shows I ever saw was The Dillinger Escape Plan, who were well known for being absolutely chaotic and unbelievably high energy at their shows. They were very tight and played very well, but they did not ace every note of those insane, high-speed technical runs they built their sound on. However, they did get 90% of the way there while jumping into the crowd, climbing on the rafters, and throwing their instruments. That was a show.

Another great band to go see live is Meshuggah, who are at the opposite end of the spectrum - they have a great light show, and they're all big, burly Swedish dudes with a lot of stage presence just by themselves, but they basically just stay planted in one place and let the light show and music do the work. And it's great. They're flawless. They sound better than the record.

Neither of these are better or worse than the other, just depends on the vibe you expect and how the band prioritizes.

 

[4001]

I listen to too much stuff like this to ever entertain the thought of playing top-40 CRAP in a bar.


Let them have a drink listening to that.

 

[Mike Sorr]

Well you can think there's a difference all you want, but the truth is that there's not. Justin Timberlake's fans feel the exact same as we did about the music we grew up with and loved, and our parents felt the exact same about the music we grew up with and loved as you do about Justin Timberlake.

Yeah, probably. Now get off my lawn!

 

[EatS1stBassist]

How did we ever tolerate Genesis??

 

[EatS1stBassist]

Hi Bodeanly

As someone who played bass in a rockshow (that' s how I see a good hard and heavy band) for about 25 years,

I stopped to "expect" a lot when I go to "see bands", especially in bars

As a musician I hope to hear good music, professionally played and presented.

Most of the younger bands I saw last year, still "party hard" and work on both, the show and their music,

but they don' t play in bars.

Big deceptions were the "dad bands" I heared last year

(my generation , that 's why I play with musicians who could be my kids!!!)

Dad band music: Covers that the "real music fan" will know.

In other words: Songs that are easy enough to play without a major trainwreck,

but never got into the charts back in '73

Dad band show: Playing lousy solos, while introducing the band members to their spouses,

which are the only audience (who wants to see them)


so, well..... eeem, end of rant

I voted both: Music (have fun playing good!) and party (make them dance and sweat!!!!)

and if you want to get money for it, better make it a good show, because folks come to see a band!

greetings

Wise(b)ass

Great

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

If they were playing in a bar, it is far more important to be entertaining than it is to be a virtuoso. Outside of musicians, few people will remember (or care about) a great musician. Everybody in the room will definitely remember being entertained and having fun.

This response has everything you need to know about this subject. It really is that simple.

 

[Wisebass]

Great

thanx buddy!

I knew you would like that

(so there is two guys who know the difference between ZZ top and a DAD band playing the blues)

good night

Wise

 

[EatS1stBassist]

thanx buddy!

I knew you would like that

(so there is two guys who know the difference between ZZ top and a DAD band playing the blues)

good night

Wise

A Howlin Hell Yeah!!

 

[Wisebass]

A Howlin He’ll Yeah!

now man I gonna hav me selfa another on

cheers

Wise