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Mwah vs string bend

sdjfoh

sdjfoh

Supporting Member
May 7, 2020
305
585
#1
Curious how folks feel about how action/radius achieves mwah sound vs the strings muting on a bent note.

I can achieve some nice mwah on a P-bass - but only on the A and D strings. It sounds glorious but however - when I bend either of those strings - the fret mutes it depending on direction.

My radius is 10” (fairly flat) - so should I raise my action on those strings to achieve better bending or live with a nice natural mwah there? I’m torn.

Also, the bend on the A string upwards works ok (not natural to my playing) and the D string bending downwards is ok. Do I just learn to bend those strings in opposite ways? What do you do?
 
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#4
Welcome to the realities of a crown radius. Yes, what you have described on your D and A strings is what happens. Pulling the D string towards the G string and pushing the A string towards the E string both have the effect of clearing the frets, whatever the crown radius.

But I agree with @ardgedee . Fretted instruments usually do not have mwah. Is there anything else going on with your setup that what you perceive as mwah is actually fret interference somewhere?

The reason I say this is because decades ago I had to emulate a fretless on a song but did not own one. So I used one of the small single-serving or take-out glass Heinz ketchup bottles (unopened) as a slide that I used on the strings with just enough pressure to make the note but not push the string all the way down to the frets. It wasn't perfect, but it got me through the gig.
 
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#5
iiipopes said:
Welcome to the realities of a crown radius. Yes, what you have described on your D and A strings is what happens. Pulling the D string towards the G string and pushing the A string towards the E string both have the effect of clearing the frets, whatever the crown radius.

But I agree with @ardgedee . Fretted instruments usually do not have mwah. Is there anything else going on with your setup that what you perceive as mwah is actually fret interference somewhere?

The reason I say this is because decades ago I had to emulate a fretless on a song but did not own one. So I used one of the small single-serving or take-out glass Heinz ketchup bottles (unopened) as a slide that I used on the strings with just enough pressure to make the note but not push the string all the way down to the frets. It wasn't perfect, but it got me through the gig.
Click to expand...
You are a creative lad :)
 
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#7
iiipopes said:
Welcome to the realities of a crown radius. Yes, what you have described on your D and A strings is what happens. Pulling the D string towards the G string and pushing the A string towards the E string both have the effect of clearing the frets, whatever the crown radius.

But I agree with @ardgedee . Fretted instruments usually do not have mwah. Is there anything else going on with your setup that what you perceive as mwah is actually fret interference somewhere?

The reason I say this is because decades ago I had to emulate a fretless on a song but did not own one. So I used one of the small single-serving or take-out glass Heinz ketchup bottles (unopened) as a slide that I used on the strings with just enough pressure to make the note but not push the string all the way down to the frets. It wasn't perfect, but it got me through the gig.
Click to expand...

My P bass is fretted and I think the action is just low enough at the right angle to get mwah on those two strings. I don’t get that on my other fretted basses and totally understand why - but I’m wondering if I should keep that effect or raise the action so I don’t lose the note while bending (due to crown radius). Thanks for the clarification!

It’s perhaps novel enough to keep but I’ve yet to gig with it. I’ll see how rehearsals shake out.
 
#8
If you are looking to achieve a vibrato sound similar to fretless, hammer on the note you wish to sustain then rock your fretting finger back and forth, not up or down. You won't mwah but it's a sound in the ballpark. Best done on a J type bass with the bridge pup favored.
 
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#9
My thought of the 30+ year player of a fretless Jazz Bass is that "Mwah" as commonly understood is the exclusive providence of fretless basses... and often (because of setup/amp/pickups/etc...) not even a sonic capability or intention for a LOT of fretless basses.
 
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#10
Thunderthumbs73 said:
My thought of the 30+ year player of a fretless Jazz Bass is that "Mwah" as commonly understood is the exclusive providence of fretless basses... and often (because of setup/amp/pickups/etc...) not even a sonic capability or intention for a LOT of fretless basses.
Click to expand...
Yeah I’m chalking it up to fret buzz or ‘growl’ - but it sounds like mwah to me. I’ve got some chrome flats on it and I’m perplexed at the presence of the sound. None of my other basses exhibit this behavior. Maybe I’ll do a quick video when I get back to my studio.
 
#11
sdjfoh said:
Yeah I’m chalking it up to fret buzz or ‘growl’ - but it sounds like mwah to me. I’ve got some chrome flats on it and I’m perplexed at the presence of the sound. None of my other basses exhibit this behavior. Maybe I’ll do a quick video when I get back to my studio.
Click to expand...
I don't have one, and I've been halfway tempted to buy this as an always-useful legacy tool I'd likely never get rid of. Might be useful in your situation as well.

Fret Rocker - StewMac

Our 4-in-1 mini straightedge spans three frets and "rocks" to indicate uneven fret heights.
www.stewmac.com www.stewmac.com
 
#12
iiipopes said:
Welcome to the realities of a crown radius. Yes, what you have described on your D and A strings is what happens. Pulling the D string towards the G string and pushing the A string towards the E string both have the effect of clearing the frets, whatever the crown radius.

But I agree with @ardgedee . Fretted instruments usually do not have mwah. Is there anything else going on with your setup that what you perceive as mwah is actually fret interference somewhere?

The reason I say this is because decades ago I had to emulate a fretless on a song but did not own one. So I used one of the small single-serving or take-out glass Heinz ketchup bottles (unopened) as a slide that I used on the strings with just enough pressure to make the note but not push the string all the way down to the frets. It wasn't perfect, but it got me through the gig.
Click to expand...

it sounds like what is happening is the relief is on the lower side so those strings are actually buzzing on the fret in front of the note.

and I think when the note decays the string stops vibrating on the fret in front and the note 'opens up' and you get that little muah type effect.

when OP bends a string the effect stops b/c the string is pulled clear of the ghost fret in front.
 
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#14
I started on double bass in the sixties, when playing like Ray Brown was the goal: a consistently powerful, clean, in-tune sound. When I started playing a fretted P-bass bass it was a huge challenge to achieve the clean, buzz-free, punchy sound I was used to when playing double bass, largely due to the Rotosound rounds that were common back then. I worked really hard on my technique to get rid of the extraneous buzzing endemic to fretted basses strung with rounds.

When I defretted my P-bass in the early eighties, I switched to flats and achieved "my sound" with much less work.

When I bought a fretless Lakland 55-02 around the turn of the century it came set up with very low action and strung with rounds; I couldn't wait to get those rounds off of my bass because the relentless buzzing, which some refer to as mwah, sounded like really horrible technique to my ears.

Most of my electric basses are strung with TI Jazz Flats these days. With them, I can use my technique to add "mwah" on an as-needed basis; typically when playing notes of long duration on ballads. I restrung my 55-02 with Dogal Helborg rounds a few years ago, and decided to play it exclusively until I became comfortable playing it. It took far more effort to consistently achieve a sound that I liked, but I persevered. I like this bass a lot on ballads.

I played a five-string fretless on one band for over a decade before the BL noticed it was a fretless instrument. I guess you could say I only want "mwah" occasionally, when called for, and dislike instruments that are set up to create non-stop "mwah" as their default sound, which still sounds like bad technique to me most of the time.
 

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