And a stage protected with chicken wire.
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And a stage protected with chicken wire.
- Apr 11, 2019
- 340
- 381
- Disclosures
- Lincoln Learning Solutions - Lincoln Park Performing Arts Center
All this talk about the superiority of originals and how bands that play covers can't play well has got me thinking.
How many people posting here about how they won't play anything but originals are making a decent living by playing said originals?
How many people can survive just by the income they make playing originals?
It just doesn't seem like a viable business model to me any more. But I'm curious.
Personally, I average a third of my income (30k - 40k/year) from writing original music and songs for educational curriculum. I lucked into this when I lucked into my current position. I average about a thousand a song, and it's all work for hire, so my company owns the rights. I did the starving artist thing years ago and I still get the occasional check for 2.50 from BMI. I have no problem with this arrangement. I enjoy trying to make a lesson into a song and have it not only appeal to the kids, but the parents as well. But that's just me and my situation.
I realized a while back (after my second kid was born) that I had to come up with a better solution. And I lucked out. I don't see anyone making much money from originals in my neck of the woods. The one who can get by are usually touring all over. There's not much money to be made putting out records. And streaming just makes it a dismal endeavor, overall.
So, please let me know who makes their entire living from music. I've been blessed to be able to do this for most of my 62 years. But I can't imagine starting out now.
One last thing. Someone mentioned how much they'd hate playing the same cover songs night after night.
Isn't it the same with originals? No matter how good? It gets old. Especially when people don't really know what you're about and would rather hear Freebird.
How many people posting here about how they won't play anything but originals are making a decent living by playing said originals?
How many people can survive just by the income they make playing originals?
It just doesn't seem like a viable business model to me any more. But I'm curious.
Personally, I average a third of my income (30k - 40k/year) from writing original music and songs for educational curriculum. I lucked into this when I lucked into my current position. I average about a thousand a song, and it's all work for hire, so my company owns the rights. I did the starving artist thing years ago and I still get the occasional check for 2.50 from BMI. I have no problem with this arrangement. I enjoy trying to make a lesson into a song and have it not only appeal to the kids, but the parents as well. But that's just me and my situation.
I realized a while back (after my second kid was born) that I had to come up with a better solution. And I lucked out. I don't see anyone making much money from originals in my neck of the woods. The one who can get by are usually touring all over. There's not much money to be made putting out records. And streaming just makes it a dismal endeavor, overall.
So, please let me know who makes their entire living from music. I've been blessed to be able to do this for most of my 62 years. But I can't imagine starting out now.
One last thing. Someone mentioned how much they'd hate playing the same cover songs night after night.
Isn't it the same with originals? No matter how good? It gets old. Especially when people don't really know what you're about and would rather hear Freebird.
Good point and definitely true for me. A $100 night for me is generally at the high end of what I'd get for a gig, and not all that unusual for me to get half of that. I'm doing it to (hopefully) entertain the audience and myself.
- Sep 4, 2010
- 3,304
- 2,730
- Disclosures
- Endorsing: Martin Keith Guitars
First off, I applaud that you play original material. It is what it is. If that is what makes the band good, then you have every right to stand up for it. Of course it gets discouraging to play in front of empty rooms all the time. It has happened to everyone playing originals (aka the artists we are covering all the time).
I really think it is time to let go of the idea that Entertainment = Covers, and Originals = Musical Ineptitude, Arrogance, being Condescending or whatever.
It is perfectly possible to be extremely inept and condescending when playing covers, and perfectly possible to be extremely entertaining when playing originals
There is no such thing of "knowing what the people want". The only thing I know is what I want, and the only thing you know is what you want. There is such a thing as "deciding for other people what they want, and then advertise/coerce them into believing that that is what they want". It is how money is made, and we all need to make a living somehow, but nothing to be proud of from a principled point of view, in my book. The only thing I do know is that I only can be convincing and communicating/committing 100% to what I try to bring across - original or cover-, if I believe in what I do.
Just a few suggestions (apologies if they were made elsewhere already)
-If you really believe in your music as it is: maybe put some serious effort into making a record and promote it properly (digital distribution is worldwide distribution). Look for some pointers if there's a scene, an area, whether close or far away, that does like what you do
-I'd consider any form of rock a theatrical and visual as much as a musical art form. As a jazz musician I'm a big fan of the Who and the MC5 live - and the stage act/visualization that came with those bands informed the musical performance and vice versa. What is your 'message' and how are you illustrating that visually/theatrically?
-If you really want to play local , maybe translate your material in a different language, if you will? For example, i found The Blind Owl Band the other day (guy is here on TB), which struck me as Black Sabbath disguised as bluegrass. Another band (here from Staten Island) are The Budos Band, which does instrumental old school hard rock-ish riffs wrapped in a African-inspired 70ties funk thing. Not necessarily the way you should do it, but how about disguising/translating your material where you can mix the familiar with the original?
I really think it is time to let go of the idea that Entertainment = Covers, and Originals = Musical Ineptitude, Arrogance, being Condescending or whatever.
It is perfectly possible to be extremely inept and condescending when playing covers, and perfectly possible to be extremely entertaining when playing originals
There is no such thing of "knowing what the people want". The only thing I know is what I want, and the only thing you know is what you want. There is such a thing as "deciding for other people what they want, and then advertise/coerce them into believing that that is what they want". It is how money is made, and we all need to make a living somehow, but nothing to be proud of from a principled point of view, in my book. The only thing I do know is that I only can be convincing and communicating/committing 100% to what I try to bring across - original or cover-, if I believe in what I do.
Just a few suggestions (apologies if they were made elsewhere already)
-If you really believe in your music as it is: maybe put some serious effort into making a record and promote it properly (digital distribution is worldwide distribution). Look for some pointers if there's a scene, an area, whether close or far away, that does like what you do
-I'd consider any form of rock a theatrical and visual as much as a musical art form. As a jazz musician I'm a big fan of the Who and the MC5 live - and the stage act/visualization that came with those bands informed the musical performance and vice versa. What is your 'message' and how are you illustrating that visually/theatrically?
-If you really want to play local , maybe translate your material in a different language, if you will? For example, i found The Blind Owl Band the other day (guy is here on TB), which struck me as Black Sabbath disguised as bluegrass. Another band (here from Staten Island) are The Budos Band, which does instrumental old school hard rock-ish riffs wrapped in a African-inspired 70ties funk thing. Not necessarily the way you should do it, but how about disguising/translating your material where you can mix the familiar with the original?
I don’t think anyone here has taken the opposite side of this particular debate.
Funny thing is I’ve been in originals bands most times I was in a band. And I never felt blown away by it. I always felt originals were far easier to do from a technical viewpoint than covers. And that you needed a lot more versatility in your technique and knowledge to handle the variety of tunes you’d be playing since originals bands tend to gravitate toward a single style music. It takes practice, some education, and a certain degree of artistic flair to creditably perform any music regardless of whether it’s yours or somebody else’s.
Agree! I'm working on transitioning into the cover band scene now, and have been building up my repertoire of songs. It's amazing how much it stretches you as a musician. Especially if you push yourself out of your comfort zone and take on artists and genres that you might not personally enjoy as much.
Talkbass: "This topic has been done to death! We don't need another thread about this!"
Also Talkbass: (Still debating it, eight pages later)
Also Talkbass: (Still debating it, eight pages later)
Originals are everything to me at this point in my life. I've been in plenty of cover bands over the years and I'm done. My current primary band doesn't don't play a single cover tune. There is something about the process of writing and arranging and optimizing tunes that I find immensely rewarding creatively.
We've been together for about six months now and haven't even tried to look for a gig though we're deeply engaged in getting some tracks down. We are totally consumed in the process of creation. It almost doesn't matter to me that anyone likes what we do or even gets to hear it. I know that sounds terribly self-indulgent and even weird, but I just find that music is its own reward. The other guys are in a similar boat and family constraints kind of limit our ability to take this broader even if we wanted.
So I can't imagine being in a cover band anymore, at least not in the pop/rock genre. That said, I do have a second project that plays 95% jazz standards which of course, means covers. So maybe I'm a hypocrite. But I see the jazz as a way to expand my musical background and develop more chops.
We've been together for about six months now and haven't even tried to look for a gig though we're deeply engaged in getting some tracks down. We are totally consumed in the process of creation. It almost doesn't matter to me that anyone likes what we do or even gets to hear it. I know that sounds terribly self-indulgent and even weird, but I just find that music is its own reward. The other guys are in a similar boat and family constraints kind of limit our ability to take this broader even if we wanted.
So I can't imagine being in a cover band anymore, at least not in the pop/rock genre. That said, I do have a second project that plays 95% jazz standards which of course, means covers. So maybe I'm a hypocrite. But I see the jazz as a way to expand my musical background and develop more chops.
Some strange responses in here, "Play what you want and screw people". I'm sure that attitude goes over well with the people that hire you. Around here there are venues that mainly have Cover Bands and a few that cater to the originals crowd. I would suggest finding the venues that do the originals stuff, you will find a much more receptive audience. For the most part people at the other venues want to hear the familiar songs or at least ones they know.
While I'm not getting rich at it, I'm definitely playing out for money and I have no qualms about saying so. Between my 2 bands and sub gigs, I play aprox. 50+/- gigs a year. Average $100-$250 per gig. Some a little more. I also get paid extra because I own and run the PA. I am in no way playing $50 gigs for the typical 3 set evening. If it heads in that direction, I'm quitting the game and selling off everything. Maybe keep a bass and a small amp for myself.
Time and place. No one wants to go to a bar and hear a band rip through originals all night. But if you go to a local show where people are playing 30-45 minute sets, and there are a few bands, people expect that you're an original band and might have a cover here or there. The only way you should be playing 30 originals is if people bought a ticket that has your name on it.
This! In NY, I played funk, R&B, Soul, Reggae, Latin and Jazz. I moved here to VA and joined a band playing all sorts of rock and pop music. Whew, it took me a minute to absorb it all but now I love it. I play it all. No box for me.
I think transitioning from a band that calls itself a cover band could be an issue if they’ve built a reputation as a good cover band and that’s what people expect to hear. “Managing customer expectations” and your image is important to some degree.
The originals bands I was in (with one exception) hit the road with a 30/70 mix of original to carefully selected cover material. And then gradually transitioned over to about an 80/20 mix of originals as we added new material and the local scene began to know and recognize our own stuff. But we never completely abandoned cover tunes even when we had enough of our own music to fill an entire night.
Two reasons to always have some covers. First, they’re icebreakers with a new audience. They often more willing to listen to things they haven’t heard before if you ease them into it with something familiar. Kinda like offering a visitor some refreshments. It’s just basic courtesy.
Second reason is that since you’ll be playing mostly the same general music scene, your originals and act are going to start getting stale if you’re giggling regularly and people have heard everything you’ve got a hundred times already. So unless you’re very prolific, and can reliably crank out hit song after hit song, a stockpile of good covers can help keep things fresh as well as give you the opportunity to hotswap them for your own numbers during a set if you feel you’re starting to lose the crowd.
If you’re doing originals, cover songs are your friend.
(BTW: Van Halen started out as a cover band and earned a reputation as being the band who could play everything. So it is possible to start as a cover band and morph into an all originals act if your own stuff is good enough. By which I mean you sound like a band people actually want to hear.)
This.
As is learning to play music you don't actually like and don't care to play. Amazing what you can discover and use by learning some corny old music hall number or a polka. Everything you can play makes you a better musician.
Cover band artists: "Playing covers is great! Playing originals is also great."
Originals band artists: "People who play in cover bands are soul-less, un-creative, money-grubbing hacks."
Originals band artists: "People who play in cover bands are soul-less, un-creative, money-grubbing hacks."
I'm also in Louisiana and have been playing in an all originals band for two years now. Gig opportunities are less prevalent than if we played covers. It's a struggle, but it's worth it. And, like some who have posted above...I find that I don't want to play covers anymore (especially that "swamp pop" stuff...ugh).
Cover band artists: "Playing covers is great! Playing originals is also great."
Originals band artists: "People who play in cover bands are soul-less, un-creative, money-grubbing hacks."
Give me your money, and I will serve you up cold porridge/oatmeal on a tin plate !!
(take what you are served up)
