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My first lay off

#23
I spent most of my career in the construction industry and have been laid off a number of times. It sucks every time. When the economy goes down, nobody needs a person who can manage large projects and get paid well for it. They need some peon who can count rat turds in a lab and get paid peanuts. I got really lucky and have found another niche, but there's a certain irony or something about being 50, having two masters degrees, and packing roofing up a ladder as a physical laborer. I'm back to being a desk job type, and it's the best job I ever had, but it sure was a lean time before this came along. It is crazy how life twists and turns. There's no safety net, no guarantees, and no chance that anybody who wasn't very, very lucky won't have to face it sometime or another. After all these years, I have come to the conclusion that the only things I really have are my time and the abilities I have gathered together over a lifetime. All else can be taken away in a flash. Even time and abilities are fragile things. As far as money, I'll probably be working until I'm 70 anyway, since the choppiness of my work means savings got destroyed on a cyclical basis. So it goes.

It sucks. That's the only thing to say about it, and misery doesn't love company. I hope it turns out to be a blessing in disguise, as the last round of misery turned out for me. Or at least, it doesn't turn out to be misery for too long. All the best to you.
 
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#24
Gaolee said:
I spent most of my career in the construction industry and have been laid off a number of times. It sucks every time. When the economy goes down, nobody needs a person who can manage large projects and get paid well for it. They need some peon who can count rat turds in a lab and get paid peanuts. I got really lucky and have found another niche, but there's a certain irony or something about being 50, having two masters degrees, and packing roofing up a ladder as a physical laborer. I'm back to being a desk job type, and it's the best job I ever had, but it sure was a lean time before this came along. It is crazy how life twists and turns. There's no safety net, no guarantees, and no chance that anybody who wasn't very, very lucky won't have to face it sometime or another. After all these years, I have come to the conclusion that the only things I really have are my time and the abilities I have gathered together over a lifetime. All else can be taken away in a flash. Even time and abilities are fragile things. As far as money, I'll probably be working until I'm 70 anyway, since the choppiness of my work means savings got destroyed on a cyclical basis. So it goes.

It sucks. That's the only thing to say about it, and misery doesn't love company. I hope it turns out to be a blessing in disguise, as the last round of misery turned out for me. Or at least, it doesn't turn out to be misery for too long. All the best to you.
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i know what you mean, not from my own employment but from my family growing up.

my dad was an aerospace engineer. you may be familiar with the tale - the government asked universities to steer more students into engineering in the 1950s. by the early 1960s, there were lots more engineers than jobs. my father worked a couple longer-term jobs from a little before i was born till i was around 9. these companies took care of their employees.

after that, the higher paying jobs were mostly from government contracts, so each job lasted one year. it was rough because although these were good paying jobs, they never lasted. the companies that offered permanent positions offered a full third less, and those positions weren't always that stable.

so my childhood from around 9 to 17 was my dad getting a great job for one year, then he and most of the guys he worked with would be laid off. no one would hire them - my dad was told he was overqualified so many times. we dealt with the lack of income, his depression and anger. those were not easy times. and worst of all, for all of my family, we learned that there was basically no such thing as security, at least not in the career my father loved.

i think that's the hardest part of losing a long time job or career - losing any feeling of safety or security.
 
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#28
Laid off 2 years ago. It sucked big time. Went on unemployment for 6 months. Out of work for 8 months. Finally landed another job but I hate it. In fact I hate working period but I'm too young to retire but I'm at an age where no ones looking to hire so I'm stuck for a few more years or until something better comes along to hold me to a solid retirement age.
 
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#30
zon6c-f said:
Middle pay and Georgia is at Will so no real recourse. Only 1 older than me
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It's more than that. They say it's financial, yet according to you that argument doesn't hold water. What is the age of the person who will assume your duties? Is he/she more qualified than you? A good place to start is NELA.ORG. That's the National Association of Employment Attornies - these are lawyers who primarily represent employees. Their website has a directory of members.

I'm not saying you have a case (impossible on a few paragraphs). I'm saying there is enough smoke where I wouldn't let it drop without further exploration. There is a very short period by which you have to file (Federal is 300 days, I don't know if it is shorter under GA law).
 
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#31
At 60, I expect the axe to fall every six months. There is one reason for the cuts....increasing shareholder value. It doesn't matter how good you are, how hard you work or your loyalty. Those values are so 20th Century. It is simply cost and us older, experienced folks are the first to go.

And people wonder while the youngsters don't devote their lives to their employers...they saw what happened in 2009 to their parents and friends parents and know the company does not care about you. Your boss may, his boss doesn't.

Just the way of it. Keep looking, but be willing to do something different.
 
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#32
Went through a similar situation back in 2011. I had been at that company nearly 17 years, worked my way up to department head, and thought I was set until I could retire. Good company, great pay, great benefits. But when the economy took a dive, I was one of the first to go.

Why? I was making nearly twice what the guy under me was making. (Believe me, I also outworked the guy 2:1) But that guy was also a member of the owners' church, and while my wife worked, his wife chose to be a stay-at-home mom and that would put 'too much of a hardship' on his family.

I did find gainful employment rather quickly after being let go, though, thanks to my reputation in the industry. Unfortunately, I had to take a 15-yr step backwards in pay, which seven years later I still have only gotten back to about 75% of where I was.
 
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#33
Old Blastard said:
And people wonder while the youngsters don't devote their lives to their employers...they saw what happened in 2009 to their parents and friends parents and know the company does not care about you. Your boss may, his boss doesn't.
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This is absolutely truth. We are going through a period of social flux that is destroying long established bonds. Something else will take the place of those bonds, but it's going to take time and upheaval. The bonds that unions provided among people have been broken, for better or worse, and now the bonds between employer and employee are going as well. Those bonds were never that strong anyway. The social bonds across the various strata of society are being eroded and destroyed as well. I don't want this to turn into political commentary - it's only an observation.

What will come in the place of those old bonds hasn't happened yet. I don't know what it will be, and really, nobody does yet. It will come about organically to fill the vacuum.

Addressing Pcake's father's experience, which was in most ways even choppier and worse than mine, I'm concerned about all the young techies who are being paid a whole lot of money now. Their parents went through the wringer, but for now, they have not. They are getting all the perks of working for hip, edgy, and whatever else is trendy companies now. Things change, and they will become surplus if they aren't agile enough to change radically as well. I can remember a time in the '80s when computer types were all out of work for a while. It's hard to imagine that now, but it will happen again. More upheaval. When Amazon decides it doesn't need staff any more, there will be another billboard in Seattle asking the last person to leave to turn out the lights.
 
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#34
Hopefully a few days time has allowed some inner peace to take over the anger and bitterness.
Perhaps the next job you take, make an effort not to be emotionally invested in the employer. View the relationship just like they do, purely business.
My perspective on working has changed over the years. I no longer concern myself with if I am the best or highest paid person at my job. If I am on either count, great. If not, no biggie.
As long as I have enough money to sustain the lifestyle my wife and I have chosen, I'm fine.

-Mike
 
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#36
I went thru five or six attorneys. The ironic thing for me is that in the position I was in I laid off a lot of people and went to a lot of hearings or findings (pre-hearings). I was in good with the Honeywell lawyers. My documentation was always what saved the day. Our top and very expensive attorney took me to lunch on several occasions telling me how much our management owes me for making the cases I was involved with so easy for the law firm. He told me that if there was every anything he could do for me that I should let him know.

Well I did call him and of course he couldn't take my case because it would be a conflict of interest he agreed to give me the names of three attorneys that he most respected in Phoenix. These were $300 and hour people in 2006. The first one I talked to asked me to write an account of what I think happened and all of the details of what led of to my "termination" and how it was handled. Boy did I. He said that I had a case but to keep in mind that going against a large corporation is very expensive and time consuming. They will gladly pay for three lawyers for every one that I retain. They will drag things on for years. They will drag every one I was close with at the company thru face to face court room drama and more. He would have to partner with another attorney (whose name was one of the three that the Honeywell guy gave me). He asked how much I had in my 401K I told him that I had about $50k in cash and mature bonds and another $150k in my 401k. He said that he didn't know if that was enough. And asked that I give him a few days.

Next I got a call from the attorney that the first one would partner with who told me that they thought my case would be worth and out of court settlement of around six months pay, times three....or $157,500. Of that they would get a third leaving me around $94k before taxes. On top of that there would be no reimbursement of any up front costs which could be significant with two $300 and hour lawyers and staff working the case. Fighting all the way would be very expensive and if I won all my expenses would be paid, in this case they would ask for ten times my salary which would be $1,050,00. Once again they would take a third leaving me with $600k plus change. But he was sure that I could not afford this battle. He suggested that I forget it and move on.

From there I went to attorney number three who basically told me the same. But suggested I talk to a few hundred dollar an hour attorneys. I did and only one would take on Honeywell and I didn't like him. Next I spoke with a best childhood friend who was/is very successful. He said "walk away". So that is exactly what I did.
 
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#37
juancaminos said:
I went thru five or six attorneys. The ironic thing for me is that in the position I was in I laid off a lot of people and went to a lot of hearings or findings (pre-hearings). I was in good with the Honeywell lawyers. My documentation was always what saved the day. Our top and very expensive attorney took me to lunch on several occasions telling me how much our management owes me for making the cases I was involved with so easy for the law firm. He told me that if there was every anything he could do for me that I should let him know.

Well I did call him and of course he couldn't take my case because it would be a conflict of interest he agreed to give me the names of three attorneys that he most respected in Phoenix. These were $300 and hour people in 2006. The first one I talked to asked me to write an account of what I think happened and all of the details of what led of to my "termination" and how it was handled. Boy did I. He said that I had a case but to keep in mind that going against a large corporation is very expensive and time consuming. They will gladly pay for three lawyers for every one that I retain. They will drag things on for years. They will drag every one I was close with at the company thru face to face court room drama and more. He would have to partner with another attorney (whose name was one of the three that the Honeywell guy gave me). He asked how much I had in my 401K I told him that I had about $50k in cash and mature bonds and another $150k in my 401k. He said that he didn't know if that was enough. And asked that I give him a few days.

Next I got a call from the attorney that the first one would partner with who told me that they thought my case would be worth and out of court settlement of around six months pay, times three....or $157,500. Of that they would get a third leaving me around $94k before taxes. On top of that there would be no reimbursement of any up front costs which could be significant with two $300 and hour lawyers and staff working the case. Fighting all the way would be very expensive and if I won all my expenses would be paid, in this case they would ask for ten times my salary which would be $1,050,00. Once again they would take a third leaving me with $600k plus change. But he was sure that I could not afford this battle. He suggested that I forget it and move on.

From there I went to attorney number three who basically told me the same. But suggested I talk to a few hundred dollar an hour attorneys. I did and only one would take on Honeywell and I didn't like him. Next I spoke with a best childhood friend who was/is very successful. He said "walk away". So that is exactly what I did.
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Edit: By the way I hear all of you say "this is a against the law" and "that's against the law". Let me tell you that as a level four manager believe me I know a lot about the things large corporations do behind closed doors and it's terrible. Threw my business I became friends with a handyman that was the corporate Human Resources manager for a large West Coast Grocery Store Chain. He got sick of being told to find a way to let this guy go or find a way to trap another guy into doing something wrong so they can terminate. I have lots of friends who have moved into management of other companies. One who just traveled to California to let a 30 year employee go. This guy built the particular division into a strong and profitable placve but just got into a big argument with top brass. My friend was told to "find a way to get rid of him". I have a family member who worked for a very technical company since the late 70s. Started from the bottom worked to the very top. Company was sold three times, new guys come in try to tell employees how they should do their job. My family member finally stepped up on behalf of all the long time employees who are the best in the world at what they do. The corporate weenies found a way to terminate him. Now he is old and even though respected in his field it took him over a year to find a job with even close to the same salary he was making. I could go on and on.

There is no justice, really there is not. For all of those who do actually fight for justice my hat is off to them.
 
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#40
Alkali Ike said:
Unless you find an attorney who’s confident your case is a slam dunk, think carefully about taking legal action. You don’t want to be known as the guy who sues his employer(s). At-will employment is what it says.

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Employment at will means you can be terminated for any legal reason (or no reason). If it is age discrimination, it is illegal.
 
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