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My guitar Player is Drowning Me

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#281
The whole "Rock music is just loud; deal with it" notion is just a cop out. Sometimes a little discipline and sensitivity to one's surroundings are in order. One-dimensional players who can't or don't know how to throttle it down for situations where it is appropriate are the bane of my musical existence. Trust me—I used to be that guy, and I am grateful to the people who tolerated it when I used to do it, who had faith that I would eventually get it. However, it did cost me dearly on many an occasion; I just didn't realize it until years later.
 
#282
My band was effing loud because we had a $24,000.00 PA
The vocals were always above everything else.
We were full time professionals on the Georgetown club circuit.
SVT on 4 was small club or large venue volume, the rest was handled out front.
Our drummer had to wear leather golf gloves to protect his hands from shattering 2-B sticks.
KB player had $30,000.00 in keys and amps.
We rocked harder than most metal bands only we weren't playing to impress our guy friends, other musicians, or our own egos.
We played to bring in college ladies and did amazingly well.
What made us stand out from every other group in the region was 4 and 5 part harmonies and everyone could sing lead.

Not once during over 900 shows, did any club owner ask us to turn down.
We would have packed up and left.

What mostly bugs me about metal is the kind of audience or lack of audience that style attracts.
Its less about artistic freedom and more about earning a living wage as a musician.

If you play music geared towards young pre-pubecent males, you're probably never going to recoup your investment.
 
#283
MegaSwing said:
The whole "Rock music is just loud; deal with it" notion is just a cop out. Sometimes a little discipline and sensitivity to one's surroundings are in order. One-dimensional players who can't or don't know how to throttle it down for situations where it is appropriate are the bane of my musical existence. Trust me—I used to be that guy, and I am grateful to the people who tolerated it when I used to do it, who had faith that I would eventually get it. However, it did cost me dearly on many an occasion; I just didn't realize it until years later.
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when one's surroundings is a loud rock band what do you do?

I still don't understand what the issue is. if everyone in the band is on the same page volume wise, have the gear and ear protection what is the problem?

we practice loudly, we gig loudly.

We are an original band from Canada without a vocalist and don't tour. We've been together for 6 years with no lineup changes or drama and independently released 3 records that have all been well received. The band revenues are enough to pay for recording and vinyl plus a little more that we can usually put towards the next album. All things considered, i don't think we're doing anything "wrong".
 
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#285
bassboysam said:
when one's surroundings is a loud rock band what do you do?

I still don't understand what the issue is. if everyone in the band is on the same page volume wise, have the gear and ear protection what is the problem?
Click to expand...

Sometimes, for some people, the sheer thought of someone else doing that which they do not feel comfortable with, puts a bucket of sand in their manties. This drives them to legislate their values on others.

FFTT said:
Regardless of your music style or tastes, the sound needs to be balanced.
Get your vocals loud and clear as possible, then bring up supporting instruments under those vocals.
Click to expand...

I would say that even this is dependant on what kind of music you are playing. In a doom band, if there are vocals, they may not be the center of the music.
 
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#287
As a former full time working professional, try to understand my perspective.
The good bands, the real entertainers must struggle to earn a living because of all the crappy, self interested, unprofessional bands out there willing to work for peanuts or nothing at all.

When we got on stage, we were not there to be background music. All eyes on stage.

There were 6 people depending on each other to have their act together and work as business professionals.

If you are content jamming with buddies, doing weekend warrior part time hobby band, that's all fine.

If you are effing serious about any kind of music career as your main source of income, its time to
put the BS egos aside and start getting your band in shape.

If you want to impress your guy friends, fill that hall with a bunch of college honeys dancing their fannies off!
 
#288
bassboysam said:
when one's surroundings is a loud rock band what do you do?

I still don't understand what the issue is. if everyone in the band is on the same page volume wise, have the gear and ear protection what is the problem?
Click to expand...

We should never lose sight of the OP, who was concerned that he would be outgunned at rehearsals by a guitarist with an extremely loud rig. At rehearsals, for goodness sake! The disconnect began when a number of us began to opine that rehearsing at crushing volumes in small spaces makes more noise than music and is most likely counterproductive to hearing each other well—which in turn spawned passionate proclamations about how satisfying it is to play really loud regardless of the circumstances. After that, it gets fuzzy what exactly is at stake in the thread.

The lesson to the OP should be to avoid equipment decisions based on volume alone, because it's a battle nobody really wins.
 
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#289
FFTT said:
As a former full time working professional, try to understand my perspective.
The good bands, the real entertainers must struggle to earn a living because of all the crappy, self interested, unprofessional bands out there willing to work for peanuts or nothing at all.

When we got on stage, we were not there to be background music. All eyes on stage.

There were 6 people depending on each other to have their act together and work as business professionals.

If you are content jamming with buddies, doing weekend warrior part time hobby band, that's all fine.

If you are effing serious about any kind of music career as your main source of income, its time to
put the BS egos aside and start getting your band in shape.

If you want to impress your guy friends, fill that hall with a bunch of college honeys dancing their fannies off!
Click to expand...


I don't understand what your argument is. first you rag on hobby bands, then you say it's fine. Why can't a hobby band be serious? we take our music seriously and we put a lot of effort into it. I think you over generalizing hobby bands. we come in all sorts of shapes and sizes.
 
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#290
^^^^^^
At least you guys don't suck! Still, I keep waiting for the vocalist to come in.

What is the largest audience you have drawn as headlining act?
How much are you drawing for income at the door?
 
#291
MegaSwing said:
We should never lose sight of the OP, who was concerned that he would be outgunned at rehearsals by a guitarist with an extremely loud rig. At rehearsals, for goodness sake! The disconnect began when a number of us began to opine that rehearsing at crushing volumes in small spaces makes more noise than music and is most likely counterproductive to hearing each other well—which in turn spawned passionate proclamations about how satisfying it is to play really loud regardless of the circumstances. After that, it gets fuzzy what exactly is at stake in the thread.

The lesson to the OP should be to avoid equipment decisions based on volume alone, because it's a battle nobody really wins.
Click to expand...


My point is, playing loudly is not always counterproductive if you know what you are doing or willing to learn how to do it properly. I think everyone has this misconception that all bands that practice loudly are a bunch of talentless kids with hearing damage who are compensating for their lack of skill. And that simply is not true.

When you're on a limited budget then the only criteria when buying gear is volume. What's the point of getting an amp/cab if it won't fill out the mix as needed?
 
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#292
Superglue the guitarist's volume knob at "2".

Or, you could try explaining the concept of "the band sounds best if there is the right balance with regards to level and frequency range between the instruments in the overall sound" and ask him to turn down a little. :)
 
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#293
FFTT said:
^^^^^^
At least you guys don't suck! Still, I keep waiting for the vocalist to come in.

What is the largest audience you have drawn as headlining act?
How much are you drawing for income at the door?
Click to expand...


The largest draw was probably 400 but average is closer to 120-150. The door can vary, on shvtty nights $50. really good nights $800 plus merch sales. We'd probably earn more in a year if we played in other cities more often but we all have day jobs and kids under 2 years old that makes it difficult. We did play in Quebec City last month, first time there and we sold out the club, about 180 people.

Our total revenue in 2014 was about $8000 i think, that's from doors, digital albums, streaming, vinyl and t-shirts combined.
 
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#294
Rehearsal time should be used to LISTEN to make sure everyone has their parts down, to make sure everyone starts and stops at the right time, to make sure bass and kick are in the pocket, to make sure vocals and harmonies are tight,
to make sure bass part is not stepping on the vocal, that the guitarist is leaving room for other supporting musicians.

If your rehearsals seem more like bowling night for self interested wankers, find another band.
 
#295
We started in the dumps & biker bars, getting $300.00 club minimum till we refined our act and our song choices.
Before the band split, we were drawing packed houses and could demand $1400.00 a night booked for the entire week.
That was 1981.
 
#296
MegaSwing said:
When you cook food, do you use the entire bottle of pepper?
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Some times. Some times I cook 10 gallons of soup at a time, so that much pepper is appropriate.

The point is, just because you dont prefer something, doesnt mean it isnt good for someone else. You are trying to align others with your subjective opinions. Which isnt going to work, because even though you cant understand someone elses opinion and hold your own, others can manage that task.

There is a time and place for everything, and everything can be well done in the right context. And sometimes that is just bawls loud.
 
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#300
When you cook food, do you use the entire bottles of salt and pepper? A unique sound that stands out isn't based on all your volume all the time. Those days were over in the 70s. The OP's guitar player needs to work on his tone. More power is the easy fix, not the one that makes you great.
 
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