My guitar Player is Drowning Me

[Big Brother]

Define "abuse"? Gear driven to the edge of its specs has a different sound to stuff kept in the "normal" operating zone. That can be part of the art. Hell, listen to solo'd Jamerson tracks- dude was driving the CRAP out of the tech he had available to make his art. And arguably, he had a far larger influence than you or i

Yes, turning up loud is art. And because Jamerson.

 

[bassboysam]

lol come on, you are making things up to justify wanting to play loud. That is why I am poking the holes....

If you want to play loud and can, fine! Seriously it is fun sometimes! But just say so without the made-up rationalizations about art and the essence of rock and roll being the abuse of your equipment...

It is bad advice for most bands. And most ears.

you're not poking holes in anythng. once again, the OP asked how can I get louder. for some reason you think it's wrong for anyone to play loudly. but there is no such thing as wrong in music.

 

[ggunn]

4 10's are for arenas with no FOH.

It would have to be a pretty small arena.

 

[two fingers]

Hoo-boy...








Seems to me like there's a whole lot of projection going on here - unless of course the above contributors are the OP's band mates. The facts as he has stated them are:

1. OP and guitarist are in a band playing a loud metal genre.
2. Guitarist had been playing through a practice amp too small for rock work with a live drummer.
3. Guitarist pulled off an amazing trade of practice amp for slightly broken (1 channel dead, possibly mismatched volume pot) Sunn. It's the only amp he now has.
   
4. Guitarist brings new amp to practice the first time and is too damn loud.

This is utterly normal. I don't see any assholery or "express purpose to dominate" or huge ego in this. I see no reason to turn this into "guitard" bashing. I didn't didn't see the OP say that he and the rest of the band asked him to turn down and he refused, even once. It's human nature when you've been drowned out for weeks to crank it just to see what it feels like. It's also hard to get levels right on a half-stack in a small rehearsal space - they beam like crazy. Firing the guitarist after one rehearsal with an amp he hasn't mastered seems disproportionately harsh.

Just to be clear I never said anything about firing him. I clearly stated that beating the crap out of him and/or taking the BFH tool to his rig was the way to go. Get your facts straight there Buddy.

 

[Sixgunn]

To be fair - guitarist bashing (I would NEVER use the term guitard) is a bad habit we have her at TB.

It's all in good fun as this IS a bass forum. We all know that we need our guitards as much as they need us

 

[Big Brother]

I clearly stated that beating the crap out of him and/or taking the BFH tool to his rig was the way to go. Get your facts straight there Buddy.

Is the bathtub idea off the table?

 

[Chef]

I'm sure this has been said before, but:
your guitarist is using a Giant Rock Concert Hall Sized Amp for Rehearsal.
tell him to turn the heck down, or, bring a practice amp to practice.

Ain't no one got time for that.

Hi!
Well, my band's guitarist used to play through a small Laney TF-200 combo with a single 12'' Speaker, everything was fine, with an old Peavey 115 and my PF-350, I had more than enough volume.

Today, he arrived to rehearsal with an ancient Sunn Concert Lead and a 4x12, the thing is just monstrous, I was blown away. I tried diming my Ampeg and, well, lets say that I don't need my distortion box anymore, the cabinet's got me covered.

I was wondering if a GK BLX 410 or a PF115LF would be enough to be heard again.

 

[Ender_rpm]

Is the bathtub idea off the table?

Have to be a pretty sturdy table to hold a full bathtub.....

 

[two fingers]

but there is no such thing as wrong in music.

OK, I understand you have this whole "let's all just get along" thing going. And I actually admire that. But this statement right here is utterly ridiculous. There are lots of things "wrong" in music. Lots of them. I could type all day.

Death metal in a Southern Baptist Church?
Nazi war anthems at a Jewish wedding?
Banging away on a low F# while the rest of the band is playing an F major chord sweetly?
Hiring Kenny Rogers in stead of Paul Rogers to front Bad Company?


Wrong, wrong, wrong and all kinds of wrong. (Although I would pay lots of money to see the last one.... but still..... wrong.) Sometimes the whole hippie idea of "I'm OK. You're OK." is just ridiculous. Playing at stadium volumes at practice is one of those times. Period. In fact, playing at any volume level that requires everyone in the room to wear earplugs is just dumb. That's like dumping too much chili powder into a chili on purpose just so you can go back later and do something else to make it less hot. Why bother being that loud to begin with if everyone is going to have to wear ear plugs? Dumb. Just dumb. And, oh yeah, wrong.

Glad I could clear that up for you. If you need anything else, I'll be glad to help.

 

[MegaSwing]

^^^
Thanks.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, just not his own facts. Believing with all your heart doesn't make it a fact.

 

[waltdogg]

I think the original issue for the guitar player was he had enough wattage but not enough speaker. If that Laney he *had* was a 40 watt head and he had a 2x12 extension cab or that Sunn 4x12 loaded with Celestions he would be just right. But instead it was a combo amp, 1x12 probably with an undersized box. Have him trade his Sunn for a good 50 watt tube head. I'd still suggest getting a matching 1x15 for your Peavey cab or upgrading to a 2x15 or 4x10. A 1x15 is almost *never* enough in my experience.

 

[Sixgunn]

Death metal in a Southern Baptist Church?

Depends on the church Southern folk like their metal AND there are Christian death metal bands!!!

 

[bassboysam]

OK, I understand you have this whole "let's all just get along" thing going. And I actually admire that. But this statement right here is utterly ridiculous. There are lots of things "wrong" in music. Lots of them. I could type all day.

Death metal in a Southern Baptist Church?
Nazi war anthems at a Jewish wedding?
Banging away on a low F# while the rest of the band is playing an F major chord sweetly?
Hiring Kenny Rogers in stead of Paul Rogers to front Bad Company?


Wrong, wrong, wrong and all kinds of wrong. (Although I would pay lots of money to see the last one.... but still..... wrong.) Sometimes the whole hippie idea of "I'm OK. You're OK." is just ridiculous. Playing at stadium volumes at practice is one of those times. Period. In fact, playing at any volume level that requires everyone in the room to wear earplugs is just dumb. That's like dumping too much chili powder into a chili on purpose just so you can go back later and do something else to make it less hot. Why bother being that loud to begin with if everyone is going to have to wear ear plugs? Dumb. Just dumb. And, oh yeah, wrong.

Glad I could clear that up for you. If you need anything else, I'll be glad to help.

Nothing about your examples is "wrong". I bet 50 years ago if you said I'm going to play rock in church people would have said that's wrong. Now they have Christian rock as a genre. F# on an F major chord may not sound pleasing to you but it's not wrong. As far as nazi anthems and Jews, not wrong, maybe offensive but not wrong.

As I stated earlier, we play loud with earplugs because we enjoy it more than playing quietly without earplugs. Doesn't make it wrong.

I love how you state everything as fact when nothing you stated was actually a fact. Something being "ridiculous" or "dumb" doesn't make it wrong.

Thanks for you opinions though.

 

[Robus]

you're not poking holes in anythng. once again, the OP asked how can I get louder. for some reason you think it's wrong for anyone to play loudly. but there is no such thing as wrong in music.

If all he wants to do is get louder, easy. Get a big ass amp and a big ass cab. But we are trying to get him look at the problem in a different way, and just as importantly, others who might read the thread and learn.

There may not be any wrong in music, but there are lots of hearing damaged musicians. If you're counting on those earplugs to protect your hearing in a small practice space filled up with big amps, you might be in for an unpleasant surprise.

 

[ggunn]

Believing with all your heart doesn't make it a fact.

Tell that to the tonewoods guys.

Incoming! Runaway!

 

[bassboysam]

average spl at our practice is 90db.

we all use earplugs that attenuate by 15db so we're around 75db with earplugs. 85 db is considered reference level and safe for prolonged exposure.

 

[NecroticImbecil]

Turn all the way down but keep moving your hands around. That's how the pros do it. Why do you think there are so many concerts where you can't hear the bass?

 

[I am Soma]

Nothing about your examples is "wrong". I bet 50 years ago if you said I'm going to play rock in church people would have said that's wrong. Now they have Christian rock as a genre. F# on an F major chord may not sound pleasing to you but it's not wrong. As far as nazi anthems and Jews, not wrong, maybe offensive but not wrong.

As I stated earlier, we play loud with earplugs because we enjoy it more than playing quietly without earplugs. Doesn't make it wrong.

I love how you state everything as fact when nothing you stated was actually a fact. Something being "ridiculous" or "dumb" doesn't make it wrong.

Thanks for you opinions though.

shhhhhh....he's talking in "facts"

 

[BazzTard]

Hoo-boy...








Seems to me like there's a whole lot of projection going on here - unless of course the above contributors are the OP's band mates. The facts as he has stated them are:

1. OP and guitarist are in a band playing a loud metal genre.
2. Guitarist had been playing through a practice amp too small for rock work with a live drummer.
3. Guitarist pulled off an amazing trade of practice amp for slightly broken (1 channel dead, possibly mismatched volume pot) Sunn. It's the only amp he now has.
   
4. Guitarist brings new amp to practice the first time and is too damn loud.

This is utterly normal. I don't see any assholery or "express purpose to dominate" or huge ego in this. I see no reason to turn this into "guitard" bashing. I didn't didn't see the OP say that he and the rest of the band asked him to turn down and he refused, even once. It's human nature when you've been drowned out for weeks to crank it just to see what it feels like. It's also hard to get levels right on a half-stack in a small rehearsal space - they beam like crazy. Firing the guitarist after one rehearsal with an amp he hasn't mastered seems disproportionately harsh.

gee thanks for being the arbitrator, but you are wrong.
In a rehearsal,regardless if someone just bought a new toy, the volume does not need to be loud. You don't need to have to wear earplugs at rehearsals. If we can't comment coz we aren't the OPs bandmates,what makes you so special? I have permanent hearing loss of over 50% due to loud drummers and guitarists,so I beg to differ with your opinion. Is that ok by you? Thank you.One day you will meet good musicians and realise that you can indeed rehearse at low volumes.

 

[Sid Fang]

gee thanks for being the arbitrator, but you are wrong.

About what, specifically?

In a rehearsal,regardless if someone just bought a new toy, the volume does not need to be loud.

I never said that it did. Where did I give that impression? If you read my responses, I've been consistent from about page 2 in saying the contrary. I said it was unsurprising that a guitarist with a new, louder rig had a hard time managing his levels the first time he brings it to rehearsal. Unsurprising. Not "good". Not "how things need to be".

You don't need to have to wear earplugs at rehearsals.

Where have I EVER mentioned earplugs on this thread? Sometimes I wear earplugs in rehearsal, but usually not, because I don't like practiceing that loud. From what you say below, it sounds like you certainly should have, so it's odd that you choose this particular straw man to pummel.

If we can't comment coz we aren't the OPs bandmates,what makes you so special?

What makes me special? Maybe that I actually read and thought about the OP's posting? Maybe that I don't judge the character of people I've never met or played with, or call them "guitards"? Maybe I've actually been in the OP's situation and managed to sort things out without deafness or acrimony?

I have permanent hearing loss of over 50% due to loud drummers and guitarists,so I beg to differ with your opinion.

And which opinion do you differ with? The point of the post that you replied to - after cutting out all the content - was that it was unfair to turn the OP's situation into an excuse to attribute the worst possible motivations to his guitarist, and into a pretext to damage his gear, or fire him . I might point out that the OP read that posting and "liked" it, so I'm pretty sure I did understand the situation correctly. And I'm pretty sure you do not.