My guitar Player is Drowning Me

[OOD]

/\ This right here. As a former drummer, I can tell you how annoying it can be to be the only member whose volume can't bu turned up. Playing louder via hitting really hard just loses all nuance and is bad for the wrists / hands in the long run.
Maybe the guitarists excitement will wane. If not, frank discussion needed regarding volume.

A lot of drummers I've played with mic their kit at practice. They have to be pretty good to make me want to continue playing with them. Many drummers mic their kit for bar gigs too which is also terrible. A little extra kick sounds good but that's all any drummer needs when playing in bars or other similar size places.

Don't get me wrong Mics can help with Eqing the drums but when the mics are loud than the kit .

 

[lowphatbass]

Maybe the guitarist was too soft before or maybe he's too loud now....maybe both. Either way it sounds like you would be better off with more amp.
I would avoid a straight up "arms race" and try to convince him to turn down for the sake of rehearsal. Realistically you should understand that this guy just got rid of a crappy combo amp for what may be one of the more slamming solid state rigs out there......of course he's going to crank it up.

 

[Korladis]

A lot of drummers I've played with mic their kit at practice. They have to be pretty good to make me want to continue playing with them. Many drummers mic their kit for bar gigs too which is also terrible. A little extra kick sounds good but that's all any drummer needs when playing in bars or other similar size places.

Don't get me wrong Mics can help with Eqing the drums but when the mics are loud than the kit .

We don't mic the kit at rehearsal, generally. We generally just let the drums, the kick drum in particular, be what the rest of us set our volume to.

 

[static0verdrive]

I use the rubber kind. They're pretty good. Quite clear sounding, as they don't roll off the highs quite as disproportionately as the foam ones. Eventually I'll get some custom molded ones.

Still, and I say this as someone in a doom metal band, there's no reason to rehearse any more loudly than your drummer plays.

Yep. No reason to force the drummer to play louder to keep up volume-wise, either. To the point his technique suffers and his hands "buzz" from all the hammering & rimshots. (says the former drummer with arthritic hand joints and permanent ear ringing.)

 

[friendlybass]

Dude just talk to him about using the Laney in practice. I played using a bands existing bass rig but me and the guitarist running 412s was too much. So I brought my 210 an old Gibson lancer for the guitarist to use and we practiced so much more effectively. You shouldn't have to get above a raised voice to talk during a rehearsal and he's gotta understand.

 

[static0verdrive]

/\ This right here. As a former drummer, I can tell you how annoying it can be to be the only member whose volume can't bu turned up. Playing louder via hitting really hard just loses all nuance and is bad for the wrists / hands in the long run.
Maybe the guitarists excitement will wane. If not, frank discussion needed regarding volume.

Oh sorry I missed this post! There it is.

 

[altarsofmadness]

+1

I think you should be looking at having your guitarist run that Sunn at 16 ohms to get a manageable and tasty sounding 90ish watts out of his head. I do that all the time with my friend's Sunn Concert head and Marshall 1960A 4x12. I run it on the speaker out of the head to the 16 ohm input of the cab. The mismatch cuts power, reduces headroom and adds crunch (compression) which will make your guitarist a lot quieter. Now you can go on and on about 150 watts vs 100 watts but there is an audible difference with these amps.

Also I might have missed it, but what kind of music are you playing OP? If your band is going in a certain direction, your guitarist's new Sunn amp might just be the first step in a series of steps each band member must take. And you or other members might simply actually be the stubborn ones that think your current gear and soft handed drumming is gonna cut it when it's not. Not saying that's the fact of the matter, but I've experienced this in situations with bands thsat I've played in where they're satisfied with what they have until after a few weeks of badgering them I provide them with my backline at a practice or gig and then they understand the wall of amps and vintage heads sounds better than their Peavey Transtube or undersized bass amp.

Just noticed in the quote of the post that appeared while I was typing mine that the OP's band plays heavy metal. Like Annihilation Time, Lecherous Gaze and Red Fang? (That's the vibe I get with the guitarist having a Sunn now) Then in that case the answer is more amp and more speaker because THAT'S PART OF THE STYLE!

Honestly we shouldn't go any further without knowing which model of Concert Lead the guitarist has, what kind of 4x12, what type of "heavy metal" and OP's what understanding of speaker size vs number speakers and SPL is.

Well, I'd say that our style is kind of a goth/thrash metal sounding, with some prog vibe to it. His Concert Lead is one of those Silverface models, solid state from the early '70s

 

[Big Hoss]

You won't hear me often recommend this approach, but it would appear you need to lay your hands on a way to run 2 810 cabs of your choice, with as much power as the cabs can handle, pointed straight at the guitards head....

 

[altarsofmadness]

Maybe the guitarist was too soft before or maybe he's too loud now....maybe both. Either way it sounds like you would be better off with more amp.
I would avoid a straight up "arms race" and try to convince him to turn down for the sake of rehearsal. Realistically you should understand that this guy just got rid of a crappy combo amp for what may be one of the more slamming solid state rigs out there......of course he's going to crank it up.

Exactly, I mean, we could barely hear him with the Laney, he was way too soft

 

[waltdogg]

And what kind of 4x12 does he have?

 

[altarsofmadness]

Do you guys think that a GK 410GLX and a polite chat with my guitard will suffice?

 

[bassmeknik]

While it does appear your existing rig maybe unable to keep up with the guitarists new rig, buying a bigger rig without settling down the guitarists bad attitude (he is not being a team player, a REQUIREMENT of all band members) will only initiate a volume war that will only be won by the member with the biggest wallet... Get the guitarist to work with the rest of you. If he won't it is a symptom of a larger problem that will show its head on stage. It WILL hurt the band eventually (probably soon...) so you may be at a turning point if he won't turn down. I have performed in dozens of small time bands in the last 40 years and love my rock music. All of those bands taught me the importance of being a team player.

 

[altarsofmadness]

And what kind of 4x12 does he have?

The original Sunn 412 cab that came with the head, pretty loud, the previous owner put some Celestions inside.

 

[altarsofmadness]

While it does appear your existing rig maybe unable to keep up with the guitarists new rig, buying a bigger rig without settling down the guitarists bad attitude (he is not being a team player, a REQUIREMENT of all band members) will only initiate a volume war that will only be won by the member with the biggest wallet... Get the guitarist to work with the rest of you. If he won't it is a symptom of a larger problem that will show its head on stage. It WILL hurt the band eventually (probably soon...) so you may be at a turning point if he won't turn down. I have performed in dozens of small time bands in the last 40 years and love my rock music. All of those bands taught me the importance of being a team player.

That definitely sounds like a plan, I'll talk to the rest of the guys in the band so we can all discuss it.

 

[OOD]

We don't mic the kit at rehearsal, generally. We generally just let the drums, the kick drum in particular, be what the rest of us set our volume to.

We pretty much do that too, But we set everything to the cymbals. I don't know about all kits but the cymbals seem to be the loudest thing on those little jazz kits and our drummer has one of those little Gretsch kits.

OP, you should defenatly talk you band mates into setting everything to the drums first. It's the easiest way to do it.

 

[two fingers]

Dude just talk to him about using the Laney in practice. I played using a bands existing bass rig but me and the guitarist running 412s was too much. So I brought my 210 an old Gibson lancer for the guitarist to use and we practiced so much more effectively. You shouldn't have to get above a raised voice to talk during a rehearsal and he's gotta understand.

And there it is. Just ask the guy to bring the small rig to practice. Problem solved.

 

[waltdogg]

A 4x10 will be a serious upgrade from your 15 cab. Have him use an OD pedal if he isn't already. Those Sunn heads tend to react to 'em well and can bring up the input signal to a juicy enough level that the amp doesn't have to be cranked. to sound decent.

If that cab has selectable input impedance now make him go 16, or rewire it 16 ohms. Or seeing as it has Celestions it could be wired 16 ohms already and in that case. Wow. I don't recall a Sunn Concert being that loud at 90ish watts.

Betcha 10 cents he sold the Laney for the Sunn.

 

[altarsofmadness]

And there it is. Just ask the guy to bring the small rig to practice. Problem solved.

A 4x10 will be a serious upgrade from your 15 cab. Have him use an OD pedal if he isn't already. Those Sunn heads tend to react to 'em well and can bring up the input signal to a juicy enough level that the amp doesn't have to be cranked. to sound decent.

If that cab has selectable input impedance now make him go 16, or rewire it 16 ohms. Or seeing as it has Celestions it could be wired 16 ohms already and in that case. Wow. I don't recall a Sunn Concert being that loud at 90ish watts.

Betcha 10 cents he sold the Laney for the Sunn.

Yeah, he totally did. I mean, he somehow traded the Laney for the Sunn through the local classifieds.

 

[hintz]

You can't win the volume arms race with a guitarist.

You will go deaf.

truer words have never been spoken!! Those high frequencies are what will destroy your hearing in the end...

I had to get an ampeg full stack to keep up with a twin guitar group before, one of the ran 2 Marshall jcm800 full stacks...other dual guitar/metal bands I only needed the 4/10 and my old 300 watt ampeg, either way volume wars suck!!

 

[OOD]

You won't hear me often recommend this approach, but it would appear you need to lay your hands on a way to run 2 810 cabs of your choice, with as much power as the cabs can handle, pointed straight at the guitards head....

I just laughed out loud for real.