My New Studio Build (perhaps overly detailed)

[silky smoove]

Fingers crossed for you....

Good luck playing bass with your fingers like that!

 

[Fat Freddy]

Good luck playing bass with your fingers like that!

You mean that you don't?......

Good luck with your build.....Thinking that you're gonna need it.....

Goodbye....

 

[silky smoove]

Checked out the re-installed door. Now that he's put in the door pin and leveled it out I have high hopes for the leak being stopped. The door opens and closes, as well as locks MUCH more smoothly now. Hopes are high. There are rains in the forecast and as luck would have it, it's raining a little right now. Hopefully in the next couple days I'll have my answer.

 

[silky smoove]

Weather forecast appears to be cooperating in terms of testing for leaks. Plenty of rain before the "snow," which is typically just a tiny dusting mixed with a lot of rain.

 

[beans-on-toast]

It would be interesting to record a heavy rain to see where the water is flowing: if the gutters are meeting capacity or overflowing, if they are leaking along the line of the building, if water from the roof is overshooting the gutters.

 

[silky smoove]

The gutters are a non-issue. They're clear, have not over-topped, and the roof discharges directly into the gutters.

Regardless, the door is on one of the two gable ends of the structure where there are no gutters and the overhang is limited. That's where the water hits the door. It runs down the limited overhang, down the siding, down the door, hits the threshold, wicks underneath and enters through the tiny gap on the right-hand side where the building was very slightly out of level. The door pin used to correct this out-of-level condition was an eighth of an inch (to give you an idea of how small the gap was).

I could put an awning over the door as an added measure of security, and I might end up doing that in the future. For now I'm cautiously optimistic that things have been resolved. The rains have pushed off for the day, but the weekend looks pretty soggy and will be a good indicator.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Hopefully it is resolved. A strong awning or even a door gable sounds like it would be a good idea. There is the possibility that a soft awning could flap and cause noise.

 

[silky smoove]

The noise of a soft awning would be easily isolated from the inside of the structure. More importantly, to me, is that I don't like the aesthetic of a soft awning, nor would it match my house which is of course immediately adjacent. Pressure treated lumber and dark brown roofing would work well though.

 

[silky smoove]

While I wait to see if the leak repair was successful I decided to do some renderings of my current room plans. These aren't final, but they've evolved a TON since I started this thread one year and eight months ago.

Plan view: Here you can see the offset of the inside-out MSM wall (the ceiling and all associated framing has been removed from all images for the sake of clarity), the treatment placement and generally how I plan to lay out the room. This provides the best compromise of space and room acoustics that I can come up with. If I shifted the desk more toward the front wall I'd have more operating space, but would likely incur a penalty when it comes to the acoustics of the mix position. I'll be doing full RTA measurements to determine the best location for my mix position, and hopefully it does in deed shift foward, but it's highly unlikely that it will be any further back then this. Current position has the back of my head 38% across the length of the room.

Front Left Isometric view: Here you can see the bulk of how things are arranged including gear placement, acoustic treatments, the mini split heating/cooling system, etc. Putting things like the rack "wings" of the Argosy desk, the MIDI controller/keyboard and the instrument rack in the path of the monitors is a no-no when it comes to studio design, but with a space this size you have make compromises. I believe these acoustic compromises are required to maintain functionality of the space.

Front Right Isometric View: More of the same, but on the opposite side.

Rear Right Isometric View: Here you see more of the same, but also catch the sound isolation door (a full-lite door was chosen despite lower STC/TL values than a solid door so that the exterior full-lite door and this one will allow more natural light into the space which otherwise has zero windows) and a vent that will be coming through the wall from the vestibule. This vent will allow the supply of fresh air and exhaust of stale air in and out of the space. On the other side of the vent in the vestibule is a heat recovery ventilator (HRV) that will accomplish this task. It would be more efficient to have the HRV located directly underneath the mini split system on the front wall, but that introduces another background noise generating element in the combination control/live room. HRVs all seem to be noticeably noisier than mini splits which are astonishingly quiet. To this end I decided to move it into the vestibule despite the efficiency loss. Again, the key word with a design of this size is 'compromise.'

Rear Left Isometric View: More of the same.

POV from the drums set low to the ground to show more detail.

Isometric Front from behind the mix desk: This gives a good idea of how the room will function. The obvious downside to this arrangement is that the bass drum is directly behind the mix position. This, and a host of other factors, means that all mic'd tracking will have to be done with EVERYONE using headphones, and more specifically sound isolating headphones or in-ear monitors. It's not ideal, but compromises... You see where I'm going with this.

Detail shot of the John Sayers slat resonator wall finish. You can find more info on this type of wall finish and construction at John Sayers' website. It's very slick and provides an aesthetic that's very much in line with my initial vision for this space. I didn't think this aesthetic would be possible given my acoustic goals, but I believe this will get me where I need to be and look really professional.

Isometric view of the vestibule. I don't have any of the equipment storage racks modeled yet, but do have the HRV included. It looks very tight, and it is, but at this spacing the exterior door opens and clears everything just fine. It also allows access to gear and the building's electrical panel. It'll be tight, but I didn't want to oversize this room because of the space-loss in the main room that would result. Also of note in this shot perhaps better than any others is the location of the doubled-up drywall and green glue assembly. Note how it's on the inside of the MSM wall as opposed to the outside as you would typically see it. This is the space savings beauty of the John Sayers inside-out wall design. It will provide better isolation than using Whisper Clips as I originally planned, saves money, and allows for the inclusion of the slat resonator wall finish acoustic treatment that I'm so in love with.

 

[markjazzbassist]

any chance that front vestibule could be used as an ad hoc iso booth for vocals or another instrument?

space looks great man.

 

[silky smoove]

any chance that front vestibule could be used as an ad hoc iso booth for vocals or another instrument?

space looks great man.

Thanks!

Unfortunately no. In addition to that room not being sound isolated from the outside world (if someone drove down the alley it would ruin a take recorded in that space), I also need the space for case storage, my microphone locker, and a place to store my drums when I'm not tracking them in the main room.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Very positive. A lot to digest.

The desk on the long axis with the distance back from the wall looks perfect.

A couple of points to consider:

It would be good to have a portable sound baffle. Even a low one can be effective at carving out a small pocket. Perhaps using it between the desk and the kick drum.

Mixing can be done with nobody else in the room. Things can be moved to optimize monitoring. A configuration that you may not want in place for tracking.

What catches my eye the most is how the vestibule is going to be used. This is a useful space and it is important to take full advantage of it for recording if you can. Can it be set up as an ISO vocal or amp booth? The HRV can be turned off at critical times. I've seen amp isolation booths built under a small staircase that worked well. Some vocal booths are not much bigger than the space needed for one person, a boom mic stand, and a music stand ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed]). You'd need a feedthrough from the main room for cables, also power outlets.

Would the outer and inner glass doors being aligned going to cause a problem if you ever used the vestibule for tracking?


OPPS: I see that you addressed this in the previous post. I'd try to find a way to isolate that spece, even if it were't perfect.

 

[markjazzbassist]

A couple of points to consider:

It would be good to have a portable sound baffle. Even a low one can be effective at carving out a small pocket. Perhaps using it between the desk and the kick drum.

Mixing can be done with nobody else in the room. Things can be moved to optimize monitoring. A configuration that you may not want in place for tracking.

interesting points. a good thought. having the desk be movable so for tracking you have a ton more room (move to the back wall) and then can slide it into the mix position for mixing once they are done tracking.

also great idea on the drum baffle.

 

[silky smoove]

Very positive. A lot to digest.

Thanks, and yes... Lots... Tons even, haha.

The desk on the long axis with the distance back from the wall looks perfect.

This is something I frequently see people screw up when setting up their room. If at all possible keep the "firing" axis of your monitors as long as possible. Don't short circuit it by firing in the shortest dimension of the space. Much like my list of compromises, sometimes this is unavoidable, but ultimately I'm really glad I have a configuration that works in this regard.

It would be good to have a portable sound baffle. Even a low one can be effective at carving out a small pocket. Perhaps using it between the desk and the kick drum.

I've considered this, but anything that will make the room sound smaller isn't really part of the equation for me. Mitigating the impact of a bass drum placed 3'-9" behind my chair at the mix desk (based on approximate positioning of an 18x22 bass drum, which is 4" deeper than my 14x24 studio kit anyway) is easily accomplished with isolating headphones or in-ear monitors. I could easily build one or more later if needed, but I doubt it will ever be an issue.

Mixing can be done with nobody else in the room. Things can be moved to optimize monitoring. A configuration that you may not want in place for tracking.

interesting points. a good thought. having the desk be movable so for tracking you have a ton more room (move to the back wall) and then can slide it into the mix position for mixing once they are done tracking.

I've poured over this idea many times. I've even looked at these little track and wheel systems that can be retrofitted onto the bottoms of desks as an option to make moving the desk out of the way and back into the mix position easy and with repeatable results. The Argosy desk I have in mind has wheels, but I suspect it will be heavy and unlikely to roll smoothly (desk wheels are often pretty flimsy, there will be a multitude of cables in the way, did I mention the whole thing will be heavy? haha) For now I'm designing around the most confining layout in a static position that provides the highest benefit to compromise ratio. That is what I have shown here. If I can come up with a solution that's easy enough to apply to this arrangement it will only serve as a further benefit to the space's functionality.

Oh, and one semantic point: The wall behind the monitors is properly called the front wall in studio parlance. The wall with the door in it is the back, or rear wall.

What catches my eye the most is how the vestibule is going to be used. This is a useful space and it is important to take full advantage of it for recording if you can. Can it be set up as an ISO vocal or amp booth? The HRV can be turned off at critical times. I've seen amp isolation booths built under a small staircase that worked well. Some vocal booths are not much bigger than the space needed for one person, a boom mic stand, and a music stand ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed]). You'd need a feedthrough from the main room for cables, also power outlets.

As I said earlier (and you caught in your edit) this space will not be viable for using as an iso booth of any sort. The space cannot being sound isolated without a significant loss of an already limited amount of space that would result in the exterior door not being able to open fully. Additionally the exterior door would need to be replaced with a sound isolation door. It would also require me to do as much isolation as possible around the electrical panel as well. All told it would actually remove the usefulness of the space since the door couldn't open properly or it would require me to expand it by 16" (the stud spacing) which would then in turn reduce the size of the main room.

The room's two open spaces will be fully occupied by a set of shelves for my drums, a microphone locker, a place for instrument case storage, a pegboard cable rack, an open space to access the electrical panel, and an open space to access the HRV. None of this was modeled at this point, and as such doesn't show up in the images I posted. Trust me when I say that the full build-out of this room will utilize ever square inch and won't allow for any recording purposes. The room will be purely utilitarian. It's unfortunate, but those appurtenances have to be accounted for somewhere.

Would the outer and inner glass doors being aligned going to cause a problem if you ever used the vestibule for tracking?

Since no tracking will ever occur there, no, not at all. That said, I have some concern over aligning the two pieces of glass and effectively creating a drum head. I can't offset the inner sound isolation door enough to mitigate the problem without creating greater acoustic issues inside the space, negating the natural light benefits, and creating an access problem that gets exacerbated when having to load gear in or out. We're back to the word of the day "compromise."

 

[Will_White]

I've been lurking since the beginning and, I'm hoping to down the road build a small "studio" (more of a sound isolated space I can play in without disturbing the wife at 2:00am). Looking back now, with all the compromises and space reductions you've had to work around, do you ever feel like you should of built it down the hill, and at a future date added stairs so you could get down there? Or are you happy with how is going?

 

[silky smoove]

I've been lurking since the beginning and, I'm hoping to down the road build a small "studio" (more of a sound isolated space I can play in without disturbing the wife at 2:00am). Looking back now, with all the compromises and space reductions you've had to work around, do you ever feel like you should of built it down the hill, and at a future date added stairs so you could get down there? Or are you happy with how is going?

That, good sir, requires a complicated answer

Placing it at the bottom of the hill has the advantage of it being larger in size. It would come with less concerns over isolation since nearest neighbors would be further away. That's where the benefits stop.

Placing it at the bottom of the hill has disadvantages in the fact that the cost to go this route would have been 2-3 times the total cost of doing it on top of the hill, and on a MUCH longer timeline, both in terms of building schedule and how quickly I could fund the various phases of construction. The site would require considerably more prep than the top of the hill did. I would have to get a new utility hookup from the City of Seattle in order to get electricity to the place. I'd have to include a bathroom since the house isn't readily available like it is at the top of the hill which would then require water and sewer hookups. All of that means the operating cost of the space goes way up because suddenly I have an extra Seattle Public Utilities District bill and a new Seattle City Light bill. I would also need to fence and secure the place since it's detached. Now I'm buying a second security system as opposed to simply extending the one from my house which is the current plan for the top of the hill. It also wouldn't be as easy for me to pop out to the studio when inspiration strikes being down at the bottom of the hill.

Now, as to your last question as to whether or not I'm happy with how it's going... Well... haha... I've been feeling a little discouraged about the whole process because of the continued delays and the fact that I'm effectively out of money to continue construction until probably March of 2017. It feels a bit like an albatross just sitting outside my house not getting done. Meanwhile I have a hardscaping project with all of the building materials (concrete pavers, crushed rocks, sacks of decorative rock, etc.) sitting in my driveway creating an eye sore, and yet I can't work on that project until the studio electrical is in-place. I can't get the electrical in-place until the construction is further along. I can't advance construction until I get the remaining funds in my account. So the eye sore has to remain. So... I'm admittedly a little down on the whole process at the moment, but once I can really get back to it my answer will undoubtedly change to "Yes, I'm very happy with my decision to build at the top of the hill as opposed to the bottom, even with the compromises involved."

 

[beans-on-toast]

I've found that racking equipment is not as simple as it seems. I had two big racks built into a cabinet. Each rack had a separate power conditioner and outlet strip, there was even lighting back there. There was outboard gear but also DAT tape, CD, headphone distribution, power amp for the studio monitors and two 31 band EQs. Some pieces had external power supplies. Couple that with snakes for the shielded cables and gear and microphone patch bays, there were a lot of wire that needed to be organized. I had signal cables on one side of each rack, power cables on the other. The enclosed racks were a must to hide the mess.

After some time, I came to the conclusion that fixed studio related racks were fine but it would have been better it have small portable rack cases for outboard equipment and tables to place them on. Sometimes you need more equipment and you rent whatever is necessary. These pieces often come mounted in portable racks, so you need a place for them.

You build a great recording space but you quickly find that not everything happens there. Some degree of portability is necessary. Sometime you get called out to record. Other times you want to take advantage of every space you can and not limit yourself to the studio. Don't laugh, I often use tiled bathrooms, stairwells in buildings, hallways, to capture great reflected sounds. I have a habit of snapping my finges whenever I go into spaces to listen for the echo. In these cases, it is nice to have a portable computer, a A/D D/A box, headphones, and if possible some external mic preamps for the microphones, and even a small mixer. These things are what I don't want to hardwire into a studio rack.

All this complicates planning your workspace. In an ideal setup, you want it flexible so it can be moved around. You never solve all these problems initially, it takes time to evolve.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Here is a useful tip. I have some old heavy duty Yamaha boom cymbal stands that I converted to also serve as mic stands. They are solid, have a good reach, and the teeth on the boom lock it in position. I drilled out and threaded the inside of a mic stand coupler to screw onto the end of the stand where the wing nut normally goes. The nice thing about these stands is that they fold up compactly for storage.

 

[silky smoove]

As for racks and portability: The racks I have planned are modest, fixed, and within arms reach of the mix position. My rack gear needs are pretty small since I work entirely ITB. Interfaces (16-channels in total), a dedicated in-line rack tuner, 1-2 power strips (depending on the number of outlets), and that's it. Easy peasy.

I don't want my studio rack to be portable. If I'm doing location work I'll bring my mobile recording setup, not disassemble part of my studio.

 

[DirtDog]

what did you end up choosing for flooring?