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My New Studio Build (perhaps overly detailed)

#101
Quick update: I got the preliminary plans back from the building manufacturer yesterday. There was some confusion and what was delivered was a traditional "flat" ceiling. In other words, the trusses had a conventional chord that spanned from the top of one wall plate to the other. I wanted a fully vaulted ceiling, or at least a partially vaulted one (i.e. a scissor truss with a collar tie roughly halfway up resulting in two vaulted sections, and an elevated flat section spanning between them).

The bad news is that the cost for vaulting options is higher than flat ceiling options, so I'm a little further out of cost, and submitting the plans to the City of Seattle building department has been delayed for a few days. The good news is that the building is narrow enough to POSSIBLY do this with a fully vaulted ceiling. That's not something I had realistically expected, but is a huge win in terms of acoustics. More space, especially for drum overheads is a great thing. A fully vaulted ceiling does present one more nearly-90 corner at the peak of the vault as opposed to the roughly-45 corners at the collar tie on a partial vault, but this corner is easily treated with some bass traps straddling it and will result in an increase in internal volume.

More money, slight delay, better end result. In this case, 1 out of 3 ain't bad! (bonus points if you get the reference)
meatloaf.jpg
 
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#103
Additional quick update: I'm in the process of sorting out concepts for the HVAC portion of the build. This is horribly complicated. From a heating, cooling (not terribly necessary in Seattle), and most importantly, fresh air intake/stale musician fart air exhaust, the project is quite simple. Too relatively small rooms... That's it? No problem! The trick is that anything that freely passes air also freely passes sound, and as a result becomes a weak link in my isolation perimeter. So a simple HVAC system suddenly becomes a complicated mess of erratically changing duct sizes/shapes (evidently this is the same principle used in gun silencers), baffle boxes, literally pounds and pounds of acoustic sealant, and all manner of silliness.

The result of course is that the drummer from that metal band who's tracking at your place and just spent the previous night binge drinking after taking silver in a burrito eating competition over at the Taco Bell on the bad side of town doesn't single-handedly ruin your studio for all time.

More on that as it develops. The HVAC, not the aforementioned drummer.
 
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#104
silky smoove said:
Additional quick update: I'm in the process of sorting out concepts for the HVAC portion of the build. This is horribly complicated. From a heating, cooling (not terribly necessary in Seattle), and most importantly, fresh air intake/stale musician fart air exhaust, the project is quite simple. Too relatively small rooms... That's it? No problem! The trick is that anything that freely passes air also freely passes sound, and as a result becomes a weak link in my isolation perimeter. So a simple HVAC system suddenly becomes a complicated mess of erratically changing duct sizes/shapes (evidently this is the same principle used in gun silencers), baffle boxes, literally pounds and pounds of acoustic sealant, and all manner of silliness.

The result of course is that the drummer from that metal band who's tracking at your place and just spent the previous night binge drinking after taking silver in a burrito eating competition over at the Taco Bell on the bad side of town doesn't single-handedly ruin your studio for all time.

More on that as it develops. The HVAC, not the aforementioned drummer.
Click to expand...

I spoke about this with my AC guy and he reccommended a PTAC system (pretty much what they have in hotel rooms) and said the newer ones were pretty quiet.
 
#105
A PTAC system doesn't work because they're floor/wall mounted. Being in Seattle, the need for cooling (ie air conditioning) is very low. Almost no one has AC in their home. I don't in my current house and didn't in my previous house. Heating, intake of fresh air, and exhaust of stale air are the only things I'm concerned with. Additionally, these have to be done without taking up floor or wall space.

For heating I've spec'd out a radiant floor system that's super efficient. For the intake/exhaust system I'm going with a ducted system inside the vaulted ceiling with both supply and return grills into each room. Each duct run will have a sound isolating baffle box, varying duct sizes (this confuses most HVAC guys as it goes against their training which typically has nothing to do with sound isolation), and very few straight runs. Not to mention a ton of sound isolating sealant.
 
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#106
Just a quick update. My building rep has a meeting scheduled with the City of Seattle planning department to review my structure for permitting purposes. There are two things happening now that have me nervous about that meeting.

The first is the grades of the ground adjacent to the proposed studio location. As you move from south to north, which happens to be the long dimension of my building, the ground slopes down a total of about 2' or so. To accommodate this slope relative to having a level building pad, I'm going to have to construct a small block wall. You might be laughing considering how much effort I just went through to remove a block wall that was achieving the very function I'm describing. The reality is that the former block wall was in bad/ugly shape, was not level, was encroaching into the alley setback (which would have shut down the permitting process immediately), and was the wrong size for my building. The new wall, because of some cool grading and landscaping I've done adjacent to it (pictures coming sooner or later) will not have to be as tall as the previous, which is terrific as it makes it considerably easier to build. It also provides a great building surface to more easily achieve a level pad for the new building. The problem is that the building, because of the Manta Ray style earth anchors that secure it to the ground, has to sit completely within the boundary of these blocks, and still have 6" of crushed rock around it. Suddenly I've lost 12-14" of ground space on all sides. Now remember that I'm building inside of a triangle (the house to the south, the alley to the west, and the top of a terraced slope to the north and east running diagonally). The problem with a triangle is that a change to the building in direction X also creates a change in direction Y. Now there's a concern that the 14x26 building will be too big. That leads me to my next point...

Secondly, I misread a portion of the Seattle building code regarding setbacks. There's a rule that states the setback from the alley has to be 12' from the alley centerline to allow for the turning radius coming out of a garage. A garage is the closest building type to what I'm doing, but since it won't be a garage, I'm hoping to be able to use the type of setback requirement that's used for fences, which only requires 10' from the centerline. If they hold to the garage requirement, I've now lost 2' from the 14' dimension of the building. Fortunately setbacks have an 18" allowance for roof overhang, and I'm only building with a 12" overhang.

If all goes as I'm hoping, the block wall I mentioned previously will be able to live within the 18" setback allowance for roof overhang, and the structure will be permitted with a 10' from center of alley setback. If the blocks can't live within the 18" allowance, and they hold to the 12' from center of alley setback distance... Well... At that point I won't be able to squeeze in anything more than a 12x24 structure. That's two feet in each direction, which might not seem like a lot, but the reality is that it makes the overall space too small to have two room with a "soft" divider between them. At that point I'd have to go back to the plan of simply having one open room. That will limit what I can do and my methods, but it certainly won't be a deal killer.

So, ultimately not the most cheerful of updates, but I'm optimistic we can get this accomplished. We'll see what happens. Keep your fingers crossed!
 
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#108
Space. The final frontier... Wait... What I meant to say was this: Space. It's a finite amount, and positively littered with complications, haha.

As I mentioned previously, there are some setback requirements in Seattle that are possibly going to pinch my structure down from 14' wide to 12' wide. That will be sorted out on Thursday when my building guy takes this to the City of Seattle DPD (permitting department). Nothing new there. What is new is that I got the site prep all finished last week, and on Friday my wife and I ran a string with a level across the intended building pad. Initially I was hoping I could grade the whole thing out such that I wouldn't need a block wall to retain the soil. I was wrong. I'm left with making up 2' on the high side to create a level building pad. We went and picked out some blocks that we like over the weekend. These blocks work for our site in terms of aesthetics and in terms of being substantial enough to leave me feeling confident in their soil retention abilities in a gravity wall configuration. The blocks are Abbotsford PisaLite if anyone is curious. The problem with them is that the back of the blocks (the part that you'll never see) is substantial. From face to back they're 12" deep. Now factor in that I need 6" clear from the back of the block on all sides to allow the Manta Ray earth anchors to be installed on the building, and suddenly I need a total of 18" clear space out from the building wall on all sides. Space... ugh...

Bottom line, here's where we're left as a result of all of this:
1. 14x26 is out, and will not be coming back. The grand scheme is gone.
2. 12x26 will be possible if a variance to the setback that allows 10' from center of alley can be granted.
3. 12x24 is all that will be possible if a setback variance cannot be granted. This is the worst case, and unfortunately the most likely scenario.

If this gets necked down to 12x24, I'll likely have to ditch the soft dividing wall concept and go with a single open room. This presents some issues for tracking, especially drums, that I was hoping to avoid in a new space. Guitar amps are no picnic either. Basically it takes me back to tracking everything that's using a mic with no monitors in the control room, and both me and the performer wearing headphones at all times when tracking.

My range of emotions regarding this issue:
:banghead: :( :rage: :crying: :spit: :bawl: :meh:

To look at this in a more positive light: The worst case scenario is that I'll have a 12x24 dedicated music space that's sound isolated, acoustically treated, furnished very nicely, and will ultimately be a very fun room. Things could be worse.
 
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#110
Vocals would be fine in a small additional space like that, but drums do not tolerate small spaces. Unless you make the room effectively anechoic, you end up with so many reflections, flutter echo, and all manner of other junk on each take that you'd be better off sample replacing or using an electronic kit and something like Superior Drummer. Due to the fact that this will have a vaulted ceiling, and is long enough that I could do a live-end/dead-end setup (even though I stated earlier in this thread that I didn't want to go that route), I could definitely make it work with good results. The way I get those results is what would ultimately change vis a vis one live room as opposed to a dedicated live room and control room.
 
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#112
In the midst of all the setbacks I've incurred I did receive a bit of good news via email just moments ago. If you'll recall, the initial design for this space was to include a wood ceiling, but I had concerns about the putting too much weight on the Whisper Clips and hat channel. They'll already be holding two layers of drywall and a Green Glue. Yesterday I emailed a Whisper Clips rep to get some less speculative data. He told me that my plan would not be a problem at all. Specifically the clips and hat channel, when installed per the manufacturer's directions will carry a load of 300lbs per clip. Two layers of drywall will be nothing for these. The recommended safe load goes all the way out to four layers of drywall. The maximum threshold was something absurd like 27 layers of drywall before failure. This is all based on a nominal 48" spacing (there are additional clips that occur at wall ends, corners, along the top, along the base, etc.). If I'm at all concerned the rep said that I can increase the number of clips with little loss of isolation due to the increased rigidity of the system.

My new plan is to build all of the walls and ceiling as stepped diffusers. What I'll end up with is soft bass traps in the corners (all vertical corners and the horizontal corners along the ceiling), broadband absorption panels at the reflection points of the monitors, and then cedar lined walls and ceiling that ALL behave as diffusers in a stepped array. This should equate to a room that is very even, has a minimum of destructive reflections, has tons of low end control, and won't have an overly bright/tinny sound to the reflections in the live end of the room due to the cedar wall coverings as opposed to drywall.

On top of all that, this method will create a look that just oozes "pro studio" when you walk in. Very exciting news here. More to come as this develops.
 
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#114
J Posega said:
And it'll smell great, like a sauna.
Click to expand...
Fittingly enough, we're building a structure off the back of the studio building (basically four posts, trusses and a roof) to enclose a large Health Mate sauna that we purchased. Cedar inside, cedar outside.

Come to think of it, we just planted two Western Red Cedar trees that were given to us by our neighbors who purchased too many plants for their landscaping efforts. I'm practically a cedar farmer at this point! :p
 
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#118
Hmmmm... Thinking about aesthetics now. Cedar tongue and groove ceiling, sort of a gray'ish sage green wall color on top of spray textured drywall, bright white trim (doors and baseboard), cedar diffuser banks, tan/beige bass traps and absorption panels, and a wood flooring that ties the cedar and sage colors together. I'll finish it off with two area rugs that go under the mix desk and drum area. I'll either go with something that's heavy on reds with yellow accents to add a contrast against the room colors, or something that's primarily gray with white accents to blend in with the rest of the room.

My original plan was sort of a deep red wall color, but I've been concerned that the space would be too dark, which would make the relatively small space feel even smaller. This new plan will be considerably more vibrant. Time to do some mock-ups in SketchUp... Well... Once I finish all of these projects on my desk at work. :smug:
 
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#120
The other thing I've been considering lately is the mix desk. I'm currently using an RTA Mix Station (Studio RTA Mix Station | Musician's Friend) that is completely junk. Poorly constructed, easily dinged, and insufficient space for what I need it to do. I'm now on the hunt for a desk that will handle a mouse/keyboard, 61 key MIDI controller, 32" LCD flat panel screen, and either have a mounting point for my monitors, or be configured such that I can place stands in the correct places along the back/sides. Additionally, having enough rack spaces for my needs would be nice to avoid having a separate rack case. I'm thinking 4RU on each side would be ideal for my modest needs and the plans I have for the space at this point. There are a few options, but none really work the way I want. I've seen some DIY plans, so I might end up going that route and modifying the plans until everything suits my needs.
 

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