My preamp journey

[NoiseNinja]

This is my "amp-less" setup, only including always on units, counting no less than 4 units that has a primary function as a preamp, 8 units if you count all the units that has some sort tone shaping functionality (this includes the subtle plate reverb, as it actually alters the tone too), which becomes 10 if you include the 2 Boss LS-2 pedals that function as clean signal blends, which I guess actually does make them quite essential too.

And, while it does seem quite excessive and overly complicated, it has been build this way through a lot of experimentation and thought going into it, though from a basic philosophy of making due with what I already had, though with some fairly budget friendly additions.

However, while I am extremely satisfied with the result in terms of the tone I get from it, I would love if there was a way to get the same great tone in a simpler setup.

Like a single tube preamp that could give me the same as what I now get from the 2 Joyo Orange Juice pedals (and the 2 Boss LS-2 pedals for clean signal blend), the EHX Black Finger, and ART Tube MP Project Series tube preamp, eventually also the subtle Zoom compressor towards the end of my signal chain, and something like the Source Audio EQ2 to handle all the additional EQ'ing, including the faux, EQ based, cab sim.

But seeing how I have a complex blend of clean and overdriven signal by combining the two Orange Juice pedals with each their own clean blend, via the 2 Boss LS-2 pedals, and the both pre and post last compressor in the chain EQ, I honestly doubt anything would be able to hit that tone spot on.



4 string 28,6" scale Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass (equipped with an EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, wired directly to the output jack socket, and strung with gauge .080 - .065 - .045 - .034 D'Addario XL nickle plated roundwound hex steel core strings, tuned in G standard tuning, 3 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning) ->>

TC Electronic SpectraComp (always on 3 band parallel compression, adding extra punch, snap and bite, but without really affecting my playing dynamics) ->> TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini (always on digital polyphonic octaver, used as an 1 octave up effect mixed with clean bass signal, giving an effect similar to that of an 8 string "octave" bass, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (always on parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> Joyo Orange Juice (always on low gain overdrive, [Tone] set at about 11 o'clock, [Voice] set to boost a wide curve around a 800Hz center frequency about +3dB pre gain stage, always mixed with clean {bass+octave up} signal from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> [Loop A Return] ->||<- [Loop B Send] ->> (empty effects loop for clean {bass+octave up} signal blend with Orange Juice in effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 55/45 ratio) }=>> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> (empty effects loop for clean {bass+octave up} signal blend with Orange Juice in effects [Loop B]) ->||<- [Loop B Send] ->> Joyo Orange Juice (lower gain overdrive, more or less same settings as the other Orange Juice, but with a bit higher gain setting, mixed with clean {bass+octave up} signal from parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 50/50 ratio) }=>> Artec SE-EQ8 (always on 8 band graphic equalizer, settings as follows: [Freq=100Hz LoShlv[/I] Boost=+1dB ; Freq=170Hz Q=wide Boost=+1dB ; Freq=280Hz Q=narrow Boost=+3dB ; Freq=500Hz Q=narrow Boost=+2dB ; Freq=800Hz Q=narrow Boost=+1dB ; Freq=1.4kHzHz Q=narrow Boost=+2dB ; Freq=2.3kHz Q=wide Boost=+3dB ; Freq=5kHz HiShlv +/- 0dB]) ->> Zoom G1Xon (Always on subtle plate reverb, and additionally used for 4 other reverb patches, which respectively are as follows: Plate Reverb->HD Hall Reverb->Tape Delay, more prominent reverb :-: '63 Spring Reverb->Analog Delay (set to a slapback type delay), lush splashy spring reverb :-: 63 Spring Reverb ->Tape Delay (set to a slapback type delay), brighter sounding lush splashy spring reverb :-: Plate Reverb->HD Hall Reverb->Tape Delay, extremely thick lush reverb, used as a reverb pad effect with volume swells) ->> Zoom MS-70CDR (Always on "160 Comp" (emulating a DBX 160A compressor), set to a quite subtle compression -> always on 3 x 2 band parametric EQ : Freq=63Hz Q=4 Boost=+1dB ; Freq=250Hz Q=4 Boost=+1dB ; [Freq=400Hz Q=1 Boost=+3dB ; Freq=800Hz Q=1 Boost=+3dB ; Freq=400Hz Q=4 Boost=+1dB ; Freq=1kHz Q=4 Boost=+1dB] -> always on faux, EQ based, cab sim, consisting of a 2 band parametric EQ set as follows: [Freq=12kHz Q=1 Cut=-18dB ; [I]Freq=20kHz Q=0.5 Cut=-20dB], and additionally used for a lush Church reverb that can be switched on/off, which is often used combined with the other reverb effects of the G1Xon)

->> EHX Black Finger (always on tube driven optical compressor, but used primarily as a tube preamp stage, with the compression basically dialed out the equation) ->> ART Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp, with HPF fixed @ 40Hz)

->> [Effects Return] (poweramp input) of Peavey Solo Special 112 (160W, solid state guitar combo, with the build in 4 Ohm 12" speaker unit disconnected and instead hooked up to a The Box PA 502 PA speaker) ->> The Box PA 502 (full range PA speaker with 1x 15" woofer/mids driver + 1.7" high frequency tweeter horn)



The Joyo Orange Juice being a seriously sized down clone of the Tech 21 Oxford, which is an analog emulation of an Orange amp type preamp/overdrive, but without the build cab sim filter of the original, and with a simplified EQ section to accommodate its miniature size.

 

[el murdoque]

El Jefe,
could you do me a big favor and list, from the top of your head (if your written accounts are within arms' reach, you could use them, too), all preamp pedals with the Alembic F-2B/Fender Musicmaster tonestack that you tried (and liked)?

 

[moon-bass]

This is my "amp-less" setup, only including always on units, counting no less than 4 units that has a primary function as a preamp, 8 units if you count all the units that has some sort tone shaping functionality (this includes the subtle plate reverb, as it actually alters the tone too), which becomes 10 if you include the 2 Boss LS-2 pedals that function as clean signal blends, which I guess actually does make them quite essential too.

And, while it does seem quite excessive and overly complicated, it has been build this way through a lot of experimentation and thought going into it, though from a basic philosophy of making due with what I already had, though with some fairly budget friendly additions.

However, while I am extremely satisfied with the result in terms of the tone I get from it, I would love if there was a way to get the same great tone in a simpler setup.

Like a single tube preamp that could give me the same as what I now get from the 2 Joyo Orange Juice pedals (and the 2 Boss LS-2 pedals for clean signal blend), the EHX Black Finger, and ART Tube MP Project Series tube preamp, eventually also the subtle Zoom compressor towards the end of my signal chain, and something like the Source Audio EQ2 to handle all the additional EQ'ing, including the faux, EQ based, cab sim.

But seeing how I have a complex blend of clean and overdriven signal by combining the two Orange Juice pedals with each their own clean blend, via the 2 Boss LS-2 pedals, and the both pre and post last compressor in the chain EQ, I honestly doubt anything would be able to hit that tone spot on.



4 string 28,6" scale Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass (equipped with an EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, wired directly to the output jack socket, and strung with gauge .080 - .065 - .045 - .034 D'Addario XL nickle plated roundwound hex steel core strings, tuned in G standard tuning, 3 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning) ->>

TC Electronic SpectraComp (always on 3 band parallel compression, adding extra punch, snap and bite, but without really affecting my playing dynamics) ->> TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini (always on digital polyphonic octaver, used as an 1 octave up effect mixed with clean bass signal, giving an effect similar to that of an 8 string "octave" bass, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (always on parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> Joyo Orange Juice (always on low gain overdrive, [Tone] set at about 11 o'clock, [Voice] set to boost a wide curve around a 800Hz center frequency about +3dB pre gain stage, always mixed with clean {bass+octave up} signal from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> [Loop A Return] ->||<- [Loop B Send] ->> (empty effects loop for clean {bass+octave up} signal blend with Orange Juice in effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 55/45 ratio) }=>> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> (empty effects loop for clean {bass+octave up} signal blend with Orange Juice in effects [Loop B]) ->||<- [Loop B Send] ->> Joyo Orange Juice (lower gain overdrive, more or less same settings as the other Orange Juice, but with a bit higher gain setting, mixed with clean {bass+octave up} signal from parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 50/50 ratio) }=>> Artec SE-EQ8 (always on 8 band graphic equalizer, settings as follows: [Freq=100Hz LoShlv[/I] Boost=+1dB ; Freq=170Hz Q=wide Boost=+1dB ; Freq=280Hz Q=narrow Boost=+3dB ; Freq=500Hz Q=narrow Boost=+2dB ; Freq=800Hz Q=narrow Boost=+1dB ; Freq=1.4kHzHz Q=narrow Boost=+2dB ; Freq=2.3kHz Q=wide Boost=+3dB ; Freq=5kHz HiShlv +/- 0dB]) ->> Zoom G1Xon (Always on subtle plate reverb, and additionally used for 4 other reverb patches, which respectively are as follows: Plate Reverb->HD Hall Reverb->Tape Delay, more prominent reverb :-: '63 Spring Reverb->Analog Delay (set to a slapback type delay), lush splashy spring reverb :-: 63 Spring Reverb ->Tape Delay (set to a slapback type delay), brighter sounding lush splashy spring reverb :-: Plate Reverb->HD Hall Reverb->Tape Delay, extremely thick lush reverb, used as a reverb pad effect with volume swells) ->> Zoom MS-70CDR (Always on "160 Comp" (emulating a DBX 160A compressor), set to a quite subtle compression -> always on 3 x 2 band parametric EQ : Freq=63Hz Q=4 Boost=+1dB ; Freq=250Hz Q=4 Boost=+1dB ; [Freq=400Hz Q=1 Boost=+3dB ; Freq=800Hz Q=1 Boost=+3dB ; Freq=400Hz Q=4 Boost=+1dB ; Freq=1kHz Q=4 Boost=+1dB] -> always on faux, EQ based, cab sim, consisting of a 2 band parametric EQ set as follows: [Freq=12kHz Q=1 Cut=-18dB ; [I]Freq=20kHz Q=0.5 Cut=-20dB], and additionally used for a lush Church reverb that can be switched on/off, which is often used combined with the other reverb effects of the G1Xon)

->> EHX Black Finger (always on tube driven optical compressor, but used primarily as a tube preamp stage, with the compression basically dialed out the equation) ->> ART Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp, with HPF fixed @ 40Hz)

->> [Effects Return] (poweramp input) of Peavey Solo Special 112 (160W, solid state guitar combo, with the build in 4 Ohm 12" speaker unit disconnected and instead hooked up to a The Box PA 502 PA speaker) ->> The Box PA 502 (full range PA speaker with 1x 15" woofer/mids driver + 1.7" high frequency tweeter horn)



The Joyo Orange Juice being a seriously sized down clone of the Tech 21 Oxford, which is an analog emulation of an Orange amp type preamp/overdrive, but without the build cab sim filter of the original, and with a simplified EQ section to accommodate its miniature size.

Man, you are a bassist after my own heart! You'll enjoy my new boards once I finish putting them together - it's amazing the impact an OD can have on the tone.

I still have a few more items on the way - the board for my big board just shipped today, the last power supply is inbound, and the last of the pedals (other than a Boss SY-200 - which isn't released yet) - are also all on their way.

 

[moon-bass]

El Jefe,
could you do me a big favor and list, from the top of your head (if your written accounts are within arms' reach, you could use them, too), all preamp pedals with the Alembic F-2B/Fender Musicmaster tonestack that you tried (and liked)?

you got it, give me a few.

 

[moon-bass]

Okay - the Fender Tonestack preamps and why I liked/didn't like them.

It's worth saying that my very first bass amp was an all-tube 50 Fender all tube combo with a TMB tone stack. I think that set the standard for me as all of my absolute favorites (with the exception of Eden and Trace Elliot) have been TMB based tone stacks. I've tried and tried to like the SVT, GK, etc. based preamps, but you know how it goes ...

It's alwlso worth saying that I am happiest adding a parametric EQ to a Fender tone stack. In fact, for me, it's a necessity.

SIB Fatdrive - Older, discontinued, still pop up from time to time on Reverb. This preamp sounds incredible. Thick, warm, fat, juicy, but it's also big and heavy and not especially pedalboard friendly. I sold mine, and truth be told if I find one again at a good price I am going to pick it up again.

Sushibox Dr. Watson - based on the HiWatt DR, which itself is based on the Fender tonestack. great OD, really sweet harmonic breakup - it's got a sweet spot where it's gets a nice, touch sensitive breakup. It can get gritty, but it's also very warm. I still have this one. TBH it liked it a lot stock, but when I put a high gain tube in v1 i like it a lot more.

Sushibox PAX - Warm, thick, and fat. Probably the best in terms of overall thickness, especially when going into a DI/preamp with a transformer. The breakup is nice, but I don't use it for breakup I use it to thicken and fatten up my tone (going into a Noble preamp).

AMT A Brick - this tiny little thing packs a punch. Punchy with a few shift options for tone. Not as warm as the PAX, but has a nice heft to it. The breakup is harsh, so it's not one that I would ever use for OD. It's very small, but it does require 12v center neg.

Master Effects Thespian Preamp - one of my biggest gripes with Fender TMB is the mid control, especially when playing a fretless. The Thespian has a mid boost switch, and I love it. Again, fat, thick, juicy - very close to the Fatddrive. It's big though - takes up a lotta room on my pedalboard, but it's worth the space.

Sushibox Smoke Signal - 2 channels of TMB! I really, really liked the blue channel - it has this harmonic breakup point that is super sweet - very touch sensitive OD, reminds me a little of a BBBOD. The red channel is very aggressive - crunchy crunchy crunchy! I was planning on using it for a clean boost and OD, but I ended up preferring the Dr. Watson.

Broughton SSDI - this was a lunchbox preamp. Sounded killer. Really thick, really full. Very reminiscent to the Fatdrive, but a little more flexible with the EQ. Powerful and full, but I absolutely hated the form factor.

Broughton Super Stack - this one was warm, but sounded a bit too compressed to me, like something was "holding back." I couldn't find the perfect balance of brights and lows with this one. If the bass sounded great the highs were weak - good highs meant muddy bass.

EBS ValveDrive DI - Again, another one of the good ones. I put an old Eden preamp 12ax7 in this and it really bloomed. It has a "vintage" switch that I got to a point where with the vintage switch "off" I got this smooth, creamy tone, and with vintage "on" I got a nice OD that blended nicely with the rest of the band. The DI was nice, but ultimately it was too big for my board. I might try a non-DI version if it's smaller. The best way to describe this one is that it is very "creamy." Smooth, sweet, thick, but not as fat as the PAX.

 

[wheelsup247]

It's alwlso worth saying that I am happiest adding a parametric EQ to a Fender tone stack. In fact, for me, it's a necessity.

So where on this board would you place the parametric EQ? Currently I’m (reluctantly) looking to trade my Broughton Parametric EQ for a Broughton Filter FX Loop … but perhaps your insights and some trial and error on my side might change my mind.

 

[el murdoque]

Okay - the Fender Tonestack preamps and why I liked/didn't like them.

It's worth saying that my very first bass amp was an all-tube 50 Fender all tube combo with a TMB tone stack. I think that set the standard for me as all of my absolute favorites (with the exception of Eden and Trace Elliot) have been TMB based tone stacks. I've tried and tried to like the SVT, GK, etc. based preamps, but you know how it goes ...

It's alwlso worth saying that I am happiest adding a parametric EQ to a Fender tone stack. In fact, for me, it's a necessity.

SIB Fatdrive - Older, discontinued, still pop up from time to time on Reverb. This preamp sounds incredible. Thick, warm, fat, juicy, but it's also big and heavy and not especially pedalboard friendly. I sold mine, and truth be told if I find one again at a good price I am going to pick it up again.

Sushibox Dr. Watson - based on the HiWatt DR, which itself is based on the Fender tonestack. great OD, really sweet harmonic breakup - it's got a sweet spot where it's gets a nice, touch sensitive breakup. It can get gritty, but it's also very warm. I still have this one. TBH it liked it a lot stock, but when I put a high gain tube in v1 i like it a lot more.

Sushibox PAX - Warm, thick, and fat. Probably the best in terms of overall thickness, especially when going into a DI/preamp with a transformer. The breakup is nice, but I don't use it for breakup I use it to thicken and fatten up my tone (going into a Noble preamp).

AMT A Brick - this tiny little thing packs a punch. Punchy with a few shift options for tone. Not as warm as the PAX, but has a nice heft to it. The breakup is harsh, so it's not one that I would ever use for OD. It's very small, but it does require 12v center neg.

Master Effects Thespian Preamp - one of my biggest gripes with Fender TMB is the mid control, especially when playing a fretless. The Thespian has a mid boost switch, and I love it. Again, fat, thick, juicy - very close to the Fatddrive. It's big though - takes up a lotta room on my pedalboard, but it's worth the space.

Sushibox Smoke Signal - 2 channels of TMB! I really, really liked the blue channel - it has this harmonic breakup point that is super sweet - very touch sensitive OD, reminds me a little of a BBBOD. The red channel is very aggressive - crunchy crunchy crunchy! I was planning on using it for a clean boost and OD, but I ended up preferring the Dr. Watson.

Broughton SSDI - this was a lunchbox preamp. Sounded killer. Really thick, really full. Very reminiscent to the Fatdrive, but a little more flexible with the EQ. Powerful and full, but I absolutely hated the form factor.

Broughton Super Stack - this one was warm, but sounded a bit too compressed to me, like something was "holding back." I couldn't find the perfect balance of brights and lows with this one. If the bass sounded great the highs were weak - good highs meant muddy bass.

EBS ValveDrive DI - Again, another one of the good ones. I put an old Eden preamp 12ax7 in this and it really bloomed. It has a "vintage" switch that I got to a point where with the vintage switch "off" I got this smooth, creamy tone, and with vintage "on" I got a nice OD that blended nicely with the rest of the band. The DI was nice, but ultimately it was too big for my board. I might try a non-DI version if it's smaller. The best way to describe this one is that it is very "creamy." Smooth, sweet, thick, but not as fat as the PAX.

Thank you for your work and time compiling that list!

I was hoping a few more readily available pedals would show up on that list, but it seems they are a rare breed. I might get the AMT brick again, but the 12V is an issue. I can fit it on my big board with a Cioks DC-7, but my small board is fit with a Cioks Adam, which does 12V, but only at 100mA.


The older, non DI version of the Valve Drive is super easy to get here in EU, but the pedal requires 12V AC, and if I recall correctly, something around 700mA of it - so it's not easily fed off your household pedalboard PSU.
The housing is the same, though.

 

[moon-bass]

So where on this board would you place the parametric EQ? Currently I’m (reluctantly) looking to trade my Broughton Parametric EQ for a Broughton Filter FX Loop … but perhaps your insights and some trial and error on my side might change my mind.

I typically put it before the preamps. It feeds the mids and compensates for the inherent TMB mid cut, and also adds fretless mwah when using a fretless.

Adding it after a TMB will increase already cut mids, so if you put it before you will have a little more to work with. However - I use mine to target specific frequencies, putting it after the preamp will have a greater overall effect on the tone.

So in short, there is no wrong answer

 

[moon-bass]

The older, non DI version of the Valve Drive is super easy to get here in EU, but the pedal requires 12V AC, and if I recall correctly, something around 700mA of it - so it's not easily fed off your household pedalboard PSU.
The housing is the same, though.

That's a bummer, I was hoping it would be smaller. The older version of the ValveDrive was 12v, mine is a 9v, I'm not sure about the ma.

 

[el murdoque]

That's a bummer, I was hoping it would be smaller. The older version of the ValveDrive was 12v, mine is a 9v, I'm not sure about the ma.

The thing that bothered me most is the AC requirement. My Cioks DC7 does 9V, 12V, 15V and 18V, but only DC.

I just looked it up. The DI version takes 9V DC 700mA, but will happily run off the 660mA the DC7 supplies.
The non-DI version takes 12V AC 500mA. That means more or less that you need a very special PSU like the Cioks AC-10 or you'll have to run it with the supplied wall wart.

 

[NoiseNinja]

Man, you are a bassist after my own heart! You'll enjoy my new boards once I finish putting them together - it's amazing the impact an OD can have on the tone.

I still have a few more items on the way - the board for my big board just shipped today, the last power supply is inbound, and the last of the pedals (other than a Boss SY-200 - which isn't released yet) - are also all on their way.

Yes, definitely.

Even though I use two low gain overdrives, though both mixed with clean signal, stacked into each other, towards the start of my signal chain, and additionally have both the Black Finger and ART tube preamp towards the end of my signal chain has been dialed in so the the tubes in them are just above breakup point, it is still by no means a dominant overdrive effect in any way, and actually still relatively subtle, it just adds a really nice edge, with some additional snap and bite, to my tone, but without making it sound thin in any way, rather on the contrary, the overdrive amplifies the harmonic content and makes the tone sound somewhat richer and more vibrant and alive, as well as adding a certain extra depth to it.

Also using several gain/preamp and EQ stages expand your options for customizing and fine tuning your tone way beyond just the linear sum of stages, especially if having access to some parallel processing as well, and if done right, in my experience, makes it possible to achieve an extra level of depth to your tone, that you otherwise wouldn't be able to achieve with say just one single gain/preamp stage, eventually even one single additional EQ stage and one single non parallel single band compression stage.

However you do need to be aware that the different stages will very much interact with each other, which does make it somewhat more complicated and circumstantial, requiring more precision and attention to details, to dial in your tone this way, and consequently does make it really easy to have it ending up sounding like poop if you are not careful and don't pay proper attention to details, or don't know what you are doing.

But as far as I am concerned it is absolutely worth the extra mindful knob twisting and attention to details required to get right, though I do understand how it could appear unmanageably complicated and opaque, especially to someone not otherwise experienced with advanced sound editing/mixing.

 

[goldenboy12981]

Okay - the Fender Tonestack preamps and why I liked/didn't like them.

It's worth saying that my very first bass amp was an all-tube 50 Fender all tube combo with a TMB tone stack. I think that set the standard for me as all of my absolute favorites (with the exception of Eden and Trace Elliot) have been TMB based tone stacks. I've tried and tried to like the SVT, GK, etc. based preamps, but you know how it goes ...

It's alwlso worth saying that I am happiest adding a parametric EQ to a Fender tone stack. In fact, for me, it's a necessity.

SIB Fatdrive - Older, discontinued, still pop up from time to time on Reverb. This preamp sounds incredible. Thick, warm, fat, juicy, but it's also big and heavy and not especially pedalboard friendly. I sold mine, and truth be told if I find one again at a good price I am going to pick it up again.

Sushibox Dr. Watson - based on the HiWatt DR, which itself is based on the Fender tonestack. great OD, really sweet harmonic breakup - it's got a sweet spot where it's gets a nice, touch sensitive breakup. It can get gritty, but it's also very warm. I still have this one. TBH it liked it a lot stock, but when I put a high gain tube in v1 i like it a lot more.

Sushibox PAX - Warm, thick, and fat. Probably the best in terms of overall thickness, especially when going into a DI/preamp with a transformer. The breakup is nice, but I don't use it for breakup I use it to thicken and fatten up my tone (going into a Noble preamp).

AMT A Brick - this tiny little thing packs a punch. Punchy with a few shift options for tone. Not as warm as the PAX, but has a nice heft to it. The breakup is harsh, so it's not one that I would ever use for OD. It's very small, but it does require 12v center neg.

Master Effects Thespian Preamp - one of my biggest gripes with Fender TMB is the mid control, especially when playing a fretless. The Thespian has a mid boost switch, and I love it. Again, fat, thick, juicy - very close to the Fatddrive. It's big though - takes up a lotta room on my pedalboard, but it's worth the space.

Sushibox Smoke Signal - 2 channels of TMB! I really, really liked the blue channel - it has this harmonic breakup point that is super sweet - very touch sensitive OD, reminds me a little of a BBBOD. The red channel is very aggressive - crunchy crunchy crunchy! I was planning on using it for a clean boost and OD, but I ended up preferring the Dr. Watson.

Broughton SSDI - this was a lunchbox preamp. Sounded killer. Really thick, really full. Very reminiscent to the Fatdrive, but a little more flexible with the EQ. Powerful and full, but I absolutely hated the form factor.

Broughton Super Stack - this one was warm, but sounded a bit too compressed to me, like something was "holding back." I couldn't find the perfect balance of brights and lows with this one. If the bass sounded great the highs were weak - good highs meant muddy bass.

EBS ValveDrive DI - Again, another one of the good ones. I put an old Eden preamp 12ax7 in this and it really bloomed. It has a "vintage" switch that I got to a point where with the vintage switch "off" I got this smooth, creamy tone, and with vintage "on" I got a nice OD that blended nicely with the rest of the band. The DI was nice, but ultimately it was too big for my board. I might try a non-DI version if it's smaller. The best way to describe this one is that it is very "creamy." Smooth, sweet, thick, but not as fat as the PAX.

Which one would you prefer between the SIB and the PAX?

 

[moon-bass]

Which one would you prefer between the SIB and the PAX?

Man, that's a tough one. The SIB is bigger, heavier, and has a transformer, so it has a certain something that no other preamp that is small has. It sounded really thick and full and, well, fat.

The PAX is much smaller, and tbh sounds almost as good. One thing the PAX does better is OD - it was almost impossible to get the Fatdrive to break up.

To sum it up tho, I kept the PAX and sold the SIB, so Al things considered I preferred the PAX. But I wouldn't pass a Fatdrive up if I found it for a good price.

 

[goldenboy12981]

Man, that's a tough one. The SIB is bigger, heavier, and has a transformer, so it has a certain something that no other preamp that is small has. It sounded really thick and full and, well, fat.

The PAX is much smaller, and tbh sounds almost as good. One thing the PAX does better is OD - it was almost impossible to get the Fatdrive to break up.

To sum it up tho, I kept the PAX and sold the SIB, so Al things considered I preferred the PAX. But I wouldn't pass a Fatdrive up if I found it for a good price.

Awesome, that summed it up really nicely. Thanks!

 

[moon-bass]

I just looked it up. The DI version takes 9V DC 700mA, but will happily run off the 660mA the DC7 supplies.
The non-DI version takes 12V AC 500mA. That means more or less that you need a very special PSU like the Cioks AC-10 or you'll have to run it with the supplied wall wart.

Hmmmm ... I *do* have an AC 10 ...

Somethings are worth putting up with a little bit of a hassle. I have a Creation Audio Holy Fire that needs a special power supply, but it's one of the most touch sensitive OD's that I have ever played through, so it has a spot on one of my boards. The issue with the VD is the power supply, the weight, and the space ...

 

[el murdoque]

Hmmmm ... I *do* have an AC 10 ...

Somethings are worth putting up with a little bit of a hassle. I have a Creation Audio Holy Fire that needs a special power supply, but it's one of the most touch sensitive OD's that I have ever played through, so it has a spot on one of my boards. The issue with the VD is the power supply, the weight, and the space ...

Haha, I've skipped on the Holy Fire at least two times because of the weird power consumption, because I liked the rest of what I was reading.

I don't think that the VD will be much different than the VDDI. The VDDI is generally considered a vast improvement over the old unit, because of the more common power requirements and the DI out.

 

[moon-bass]

Haha, I've skipped on the Holy Fire at least two times because of the weird power consumption, because I liked the rest of what I was reading.

The board that I have it on has AC adapters built in and the adapter isn't a wall wart - it's more like a laptop power supply. I suppose the same thing would be true for the VD, if only it were smaller.

 

[Ibanezer83]

I love the Quilter. It's such a great platform for preamps!

Ok, so this reminds me that I wanted to ask you, or anyone else here, about your experience with amps as preamp platforms. I've looked around TB and havent really found a comprehensive list of the best amps to use with Preamps, and their respective advantages/ disadvantages. I've always thought that a "neutral" hybrid amp with an input impedance control designed to be used with various preamps would be the coolest.

I've seen that Billy Corgan uses a guitar system that could be comparable to this concept. He uses a giant rack full of custom built SS and tube pres to get his favorite vintage amp simulations running to different cabs.

This would be my dream rig. Imagine having the tones of real analog Ampeg, Hiwatt, Fender, Acoustic pres available to switch through. But then I guess you'd have the whole cab and impulse emulation aspect to deal with too...

Anyway, the Quilter seems to be the most popular for this use but I'd like everyone's opinion on why, and which other amps work. Also, do the various models pretty much sound the same or is there a specific model that's best for this use? Is the Quilter known to work better with certain cabinets/ speakers?

Thanks a lot for any opinions/ shared experiences!

 

[moon-bass]

Ok, so this reminds me that I wanted to ask you, or anyone else here, about your experience with amps as preamp platforms. I've looked around TB and havent really found a comprehensive list of the best amps to use with Preamps, and their respective advantages/ disadvantages. I've always thought that a "neutral" hybrid amp with an input impedance control designed to be used with various preamps would be the coolest.

I've seen that Billy Corgan uses a guitar system that could be comparable to this concept. He uses a giant rack full of custom built SS and tube pres to get his favorite vintage amp simulations running to different cabs.

This would be my dream rig. Imagine having the tones of real analog Ampeg, Hiwatt, Fender, Acoustic pres available to switch through. But then I guess you'd have the whole cab and impulse emulation aspect to deal with too...

Anyway, the Quilter seems to be the most popular for this use but I'd like everyone's opinion on why, and which other amps work. Also, do the various models pretty much sound the same or is there a specific model that's best for this use? Is the Quilter known to work better with certain cabinets/ speakers?

Thanks a lot for any opinions/ shared experiences!

I tried a few - the Quilter made the most sense. The SA-500 is a mini amp - it will fit on your board, super light weight. There is another manufacturer, based in France, that does something similar but heavier and bigger, but more watts.

I decided though that I needed at least 800 watts, and I wanted something that I could use as an amp in a pinch. Quilter BB800 fit the bill nicely. Very transparent, light, portable, did a lot of research and decided on that and couldn't be happier. I don't have experience with the other Quilter amps, but they share the same controls.

Btw the Quilter power amp was designed specifically to be very dynamic for bass and in many ways the response mimics a tube amp.

I'm also going to buy a GR Bass Mini One at some point. They are supposed to be very transparent as well. I've been waiting to see if a used one pops up, but I'll prob end up buying new of that doesn't happen soon.

I also use a Mesa TT800 for when I just need an amp, and a Markbass F500 for something more portable. I love the tone stack on the F500.

A Phil Jones Briefcase, a Mesa 400+, a Fender Studio 40, and a Hartke HD500 round out what I have, plus a Roland cube for practice.

I've been through tons of other amps over the years, prob more than preamps. One of the reasons why I love the preamp approach so much - I can get the tone (or at least close) without the big iron.

 

[gtirard]

Ok, so this reminds me that I wanted to ask you, or anyone else here, about your experience with amps as preamp platforms. I've looked around TB and havent really found a comprehensive list of the best amps to use with Preamps, and their respective advantages/ disadvantages. I've always thought that a "neutral" hybrid amp with an input impedance control designed to be used with various preamps would be the coolest.

I've seen that Billy Corgan uses a guitar system that could be comparable to this concept. He uses a giant rack full of custom built SS and tube pres to get his favorite vintage amp simulations running to different cabs.

This would be my dream rig. Imagine having the tones of real analog Ampeg, Hiwatt, Fender, Acoustic pres available to switch through. But then I guess you'd have the whole cab and impulse emulation aspect to deal with too...

Anyway, the Quilter seems to be the most popular for this use but I'd like everyone's opinion on why, and which other amps work. Also, do the various models pretty much sound the same or is there a specific model that's best for this use? Is the Quilter known to work better with certain cabinets/ speakers?

Thanks a lot for any opinions/ shared experiences!

I also think the Quilter BB800 takes preamps wonderfully. I like being able to take only the Quilter sometimes, or use it with an external preamp, depending on the context. But if I just wanted a "platform for preamps", I think I would get a power amp like the Guitar Sound Systems Sumo, or the GR Bass Pure amp 800.