My regular soundman doesn't like my sound

[Vinny D]

...seen a lot of bassists use them and they sounded fine to me for their bands. Just not my thing.

Now thats a better answer

Yes, mic's are like instruments and not everyone will like the same thing but.....if you are going to be a bass player and want your rig mic'd do some research and buy a mic that is designed for the application, not just anything you can afford!

I loved a scooped sound when practicing on my own but not in a band setting......unless you only want to be felt and not heard.

 

[Rickett Customs]

So you see...those of you who think I just run roughshod over soundmen and make their lives a living hell are quite wrong. I am a sweetheart If a soundman has a problem, I'm always willing to hear them out and act accordingly. I'm the final judge, but I'll hear them out.

Aww Jimmy, cut the crap..........

We all give 'em hell, whoever doesn't, I make up for.

I'm a little sorry I posted this thread now. I only wanted to prove that I'm flexible and not totally unbending. There's nothing at all wrong with the way I do things.

C'mon Jimmy, back ot man.........

Haven't re-upped my membership yet.

Get on that man, you've got a reputation to uphold

Besides, you need your Devo James Brown back.

Bassists generally hate it when you don't like to do things the way they do it.

So does Jimmy, apparently

But we're all guilty of that, true.

[/Busting Jimmy's stones]

 

[JimmyM]

So does Jimmy, apparently

But we're all guilty of that, true.

[/Busting Jimmy's stones]

Well, I did tell Woody that after playing my SVT that he'd be back next year with a flatwound Precision And I do goof on coffeetable basses sometimes. But I really do understand that different people like different things. Never walked out on a band because of what the bassist used.

 

[peterpalmieri]

I understand where you're coming from JimmyM, whenever I think my rig sounds fantastic it totally clashes with the other instruments and makes all kinds of problems on stage.
So, is there a sweet spot that has to be acheived between "overwhelming the rest of the band with too much midbass", "making it sound a little boxy with too many upper mids", and avoiding a low-end boosted scooped tone that muddies everything up?

Do you guys think a "hi fi" (flat responding cab, such as Bill Fitzmaurice) would make it easier or harder to get a good FOH sound, vs a standard 212/410 type cab?

Specific to your comments, I find when things get interesting on stage having the ability to select your lower mid frequencies is key. For me the magic happens somewhere around 500hz. Again FOR ME, having these adjustments independent of what I'm sending to the boards works out well.

The first key component to getting a good front of house sound is of course sending a quality signal, but more importantly is not having a rig that can be heard out front. My main goal in the many changes to my rig over the years is to have the smallest lowest volume rig that allows me to hear what I want to hear on stage without adding to what's going on out front.

I know we all have very different volume needs in the vast majority of cases if you are running a 212/410 rig that's being heard out front and makes a soundmans job that much harder.

 

[Rickett Customs]

Well, I did tell Woody that after playing my SVT that he'd be back next year with a flatwound Precision And I do goof on coffeetable basses sometimes. But I really do understand that different people like different things. Never walked out on a band because of what the bassist used.

You really wanna goof on him? Find a Spector to borrow, that'll show him

 

[fokof]

OK, so let's all buy Behringer PA and amps.

They just bought Midas , so it also means : " OK, so let's all buy Midas PA and amps."
I wouldn't mind.

PS; I know they don't do any , but for the joke's sake......

 

[JimmyM]

And you have been a soundman for how long. IME running sound for bar bands most of the time people are complaining about 2 things, they can't hear the vocals or it is too loud. Alot of times it is a catch-22 situation because the musicians are too loud onstage so you can't get the vocals loud enough to be heard.

i'm never too loud. if anything, i'm too quiet. used a b-15n and two 115's on tonight's gig...it's 25w and starts to distort at 11:00. i had it on 8:45 to start and crept up to 9:00 by the end.

 

[PilbaraBass]

what I do...I make my monitor amp sound how I want it to...I leave the rest of the signal business up to the FOH guy via my DI...

I can't hear what's coming out of the fronts, that's his business...I play the music, I'm not the sound guy...

Do I care how it sounds? Yes Can I do anything about the FOH...no, not really...so why sweat it?

Personally, I'd take that low-mid bump out and run the low-end flat...It may sound good to you, but you're not the dude mixing and it sounds like it's creating a problem or two.

 

[Febs]

i'm never too loud. if anything, i'm too quiet. used a b-15n and two 115's on tonight's gig...it's 25w and starts to distort at 11:00. i had it on 8:45 to start and crept up to 9:00 by the end.

You've probably said this before, but do you have any bass in your monitor, or are you relying solely on the B15n + 115s for your stage volume?

 

[mccartneyman]

i'm never too loud. if anything, i'm too quiet. used a b-15n and two 115's on tonight's gig...it's 25w and starts to distort at 11:00. i had it on 8:45 to start and crept up to 9:00 by the end.

Is the rest of the band too loud? That's a problem I face every week in my church gig. I play with drummers who don't know how to play softly, and guitarists who have to get "my sound" no matter what volume. I run two 112 cabs and if I get more than two feet from my map, I can't hear it. I hate having it through the wdge monitors because all I get is clank. Yet when the soundman usually tells me to turn down every week. Very frustrating.

 

[fokof]

Yet when the soundman usually tells me to turn down every week. Very frustrating.

Low frequencies are lot more troublesome than higher frequencies , the main reason why bass players are asked to lower down their volume maybe more often than others. Sad but true.
Resonant frequencies/standing waves impossible to correct with an FOH EQ are always in the range of the bass.
If a soundman has a nasty 160HZ ringing in the room , and it's @ -367db at the EQ , guess what's left as a solution ?

And the solution is everybody's job , if you care about what the public hears.

 

[Rickett Customs]

Jimmy, you ever give any thought to running your bass straight into a DI (like one of them basic wirlwinds, that has a "through", to continue to the rest of your signal chain and the cab mic as well. Best of both worlds, pre and a post sound.

 

[scotch]

...

So you see...those of you who think I just run roughshod over soundmen and make their lives a living hell are quite wrong. I am a sweetheart If a soundman has a problem, I'm always willing to hear them out and act accordingly. I'm the final judge, but I'll hear them out.

It's always a balance for me as well: finding a tone that I love & inspires me &, at the same time, providing to the FOH what they need to achieve a comprehensive mix.

The soundguy is the "gatekeeper" between you & what the audience hears. It's really important to establish a positive working relationship - this usually means compromise! Granted, engineers can be pigheaded (surprise, surprise)! But, getting them "on your side" and working together will always achieve the best possible result for the hundreds (if not thousands) of people involved with a show.

When it comes to a regular FOH engineer (travelling with you), this is easy. It might take a little time and purchasing him/her a few drinks (or lunch), but it's worth it! With "local" soundguys (ofteny a challenging experience, I'm afraid...), the process is harder. Often the local guys are defensive around "national" acts and have a very set way of doing things (must be nice to sleep at home every night! ). I try to establish a rapport with the local guys right at load-in. It usually works, even with the cantankerous ones! A little good-will on the front-end can mean a lot less hassle at soundcheck.


I appreciate the story, Jimmy! Live sound is a journey & is still challenging for purveyors of low frequencies. I still need to check in w/ you next time I play centr. FL. We probably have a few common colleagues (a close drummer/friend used to drum for Puckett for years...).

 

[modulusman]

i'm never too loud. if anything, i'm too quiet. used a b-15n and two 115's on tonight's gig...it's 25w and starts to distort at 11:00. i had it on 8:45 to start and crept up to 9:00 by the end.

IME bass players can sometimes be the guilty party but it is usually guitarists and drummers. To get a good mix the loudest instrument onstage is the starting point. If the drums are too loud and he can't/won't play softer then the soundman must try and mix at that volume. Sometimes you can't. The PA may not be adequate or the bar owner is telling you to turn down. The result is the band doesn't sound good. The soundman is trying to do the best job with the tools he has on hand. It's not in his best interest if the band sounds bad and his sole purpose for being their is not to mess with your bass tone.

 

[JimmyM]

febs, i never use a monitor so i rely on my amp.

maccaman, no, everyone in my band has a pretty good handle on volume. the drummer hits fairly hard but not unbearably so.

jason, i used to do that and i'll do it if they don't supply me an Ampeg, but if they do, or i have my own stuff, it's getting a mic and/or speaker di.

 

[Jehos]

Hey Jimmy, great thread. This is a good example of how getting technical gets problems solved. I'm sure if your sound guy had come to you and said "your tone is crap" that would have ended the discussion right there. But when he says "Hey man, I'm having a problem taming the band's sound at 125Hz, and I really want to make you sound a little bigger but I need some more from you at 45Hz to do that", you've got a place to start a discussion. You can talk about whether he can get that from the board, and he can tell you that he's having a tough time doing it but if you could do a couple minor amp tweaks he can get you and the band sounding awesome.

That's how pros are supposed to work together. Good job being an example of that, and ignore the haters that can't read.

 

[Jerry Ziarko]

Running FOH does not make you the band's producer.

In a live setting, at that particular time, it kind of does. The person at FOH can make or break your performance. A poorly mixed show reflects on the band and not the engineer. On the other hand a show that has a great mix also reflects on the band. You can deem him close to irrelevant, but when I need to trust him with my mix out front on a given night, he may not be in the band, but he's sure as hell on my team. I never see them as a necessary evil, but rather an integral part of making a performance the best it can be.

 

[Handyman]

Aside from having to tweak your eq a bit, how are the flats working out for you?

 

[JimmyM]

Aside from having to tweak your eq a bit, how are the flats working out for you?

there are times i miss rounds, but i do like the fatter sound up high and the lack of zing when i use a pick. i'll probably go back to rounds eventually though. i've been alternating over the last few years and sometimes i get in a flat mood. but overall i think roundwounds are more my thing.

so as an update...our soundman says to me today, "just do whatever you do tonight. i didn't notice that this room sounds so bass heavy in back but really lightens up the closer you get to the stage." i asked if he wanted to run a di and he said, "nah. it's fine. once i realized what was going on in here, your sound made more sense to me."

i was a lot quieter tonight, though, and i ended up needing to add a little low end back to make up for it. our soundman finally got our guitarist to turn down and quit drilling everyone in front of his amp by running him hot in the monitor. not that he's loud, but he uses a lot of treble and his amp beams like crazy. so when he turned down, i turned down as well.

well, we discovered that it turns out you absolutely can be too quiet. our mics were pretty hot and were picking up drums, especially his. so it looks like we'll have to be on through our amps a little. great...just when i was thinking about switching back to the markbass combo

 

[modulusman]

there are times i miss rounds, but i do like the fatter sound up high and the lack of zing when i use a pick. i'll probably go back to rounds eventually though. i've been alternating over the last few years and sometimes i get in a flat mood. but overall i think roundwounds are more my thing.

so as an update...our soundman says to me today, "just do whatever you do tonight. i didn't notice that this room sounds so bass heavy in back but really lightens up the closer you get to the stage." i asked if he wanted to run a di and he said, "nah. it's fine. once i realized what was going on in here, your sound made more sense to me."

i was a lot quieter tonight, though, and i ended up needing to add a little low end back to make up for it. our soundman finally got our guitarist to turn down and quit drilling everyone in front of his amp by running him hot in the monitor. not that he's loud, but he uses a lot of treble and his amp beams like crazy. so when he turned down, i turned down as well.

well, we discovered that it turns out you absolutely can be too quiet. our mics were pretty hot and were picking up drums, especially his. so it looks like we'll have to be on through our amps a little. great...just when i was thinking about switching back to the markbass combo

If you use the DI instead of a mic drums can't bleed through.