My Upright Bass Experience
Im a beginning upright bass player. I thought Id share my experience going from electric bass to Electric Upright (EUB) to a ½ size laminated and finally to a ¾ size fully carved.
I started out on electric bass, which I played for about a year. I got hooked on the upright sound after hearing some of the recent Cuban music exports. (Cachaito CD is great! I love Cuban music.) It was that percussive thump and juicy woody sound. My electric didnt give that sound. So, what to do? I wanted a double bass that was portable (fit my car), had position markers, within my budget $2000.00, and was of good quality. After some research I decided on the NS Design EUB. I thought that this would help bridge the gap between electric and upright. (It didnt. But I didnt know that then.) And, I thought that since I couldnt judge quality from one bass to the next, the quality of one NS Design to the next was pretty even.
My thought process was Get a bass then find a teacher. There are a lot of teachers in LA, so this should be no problem. I started looking and (problem #1) my first choice teachers said Great! Welcome to the family but you really need an acoustic upright. Once you get that well have a place to start.
But, I kept looking and I found a teacher who would take me. 
My First Year on Electric Upright Bass
I had about three months of instruction in my first year. My teacher generally tours and teaches at bass camps during the summer. So we didnt work together during then. But, during our time together I learned some basics of bowing and playing bass. (Problem #2 Balance/Stance) My EUB has no body or shoulders, so we had to work out a modified stance. The EUB was on a stand so far do I stand from it? I had to constantly readjust my distance. This is frustrating and no fun when playing. I eventually purchased a hip brace. It helped some, but balance and distance was still a problem. But, I kept going and learning more. (Problem #3 Upper and Thumb position) Hmmm. Theres no heel, and no reference point for the D on my G string. When Im reading music those position markers didnt help much. (Problem #4 Sound) At first my EUB sounded ok to my ears. But, in my first lesson I heard the BIG difference between my teachers carved bass and my EUB. My sound was OK, but definitely not an acoustic sound. (My ears were opening up. This was good.) But, I continued my lessons, like I said about three months worth. I mainly worked on bowing and the beginning Vance book. My practice intensity wasnt as high as I would have liked. I still mostly played my electric bass.
At the end of the year I got a gig opportunity and the owners only wanted acoustic double basses. So, I started researching and shopping for a bass in the $1,500.00 range. I looked at inexpensive Chinese basses Cremonas, Palintinos, Carlo Robelli, etc. The talkbass archives and newbie links steered me clear of that mess! So, after more research, I purchased my first Upright Bass from a reputable Luthier. I ended up with a $2,000.00 ½ size laminated German bass a Meisel. It was a very nice bass. It gave a big sound for being a ½ size bass. Of all the basses that were available this was the healthiest in my price range and time frame. And it fit my car (Problem #5) Car size should NOT be criteria for purchasing a bass! (I was told this a year earlier but it didnt really register.)
My Second Year on Acoustic ½ Size Upright Bass
During the next year my practice intensity was much higher. I really consider this my first year of playing an Upright Bass. I still had balance and stance problems, the bass was rather small and would constantly roll backward or forward (Problem # 6a). The endpin was like a cellos. This was a handicap when shifting from the lower to higher positions, and shifting in general. I was conscious of using my left thumb for balance (Problem # 6b). Because the bass was rather short I had to really extend the endpin (Im about 61.) Now my bow fell closer to midway between the fingerboard end and the bridge. But, I still had to hunch a bit (Problem # 6c).
But, overall things were much better. I was excited and my intensity was much higher. I started back with my teacher again. She was very pleased with my purchase. She was genuinely please that I had my first real bass, and that I realized that I needed an acoustic bass. I suppose she could now use standard teaching techniques. Im sure that coming up with creative techniques for the EUB was tedious. Not that this was an issue for her. Now I could go to work! We worked with the Vance and Rabbath books as well as the Real Book jazz tunes. I could feel what I played through the bass body and the air around the bass. When I bowed, it sounded like a bass. The sound was not as deep as a ¾ size bass, but it sounded better than the EUB. Or, rather it sounded different. It was woody, more deep and resonant. My pizzicato work was much easer (I could hook my thumb under the fingerboard now!!). I could easily find the G-string D. And negotiate my way up to the thumb position. And, after several months of bowing the sound began to open up! This is a wonderful experience! (I guess part of it was that my technique was improving.)
This bass had a nice rosewood fingerboard. It had grain patterns that I used for position indicators. Also, there were with finger stains at the approximate note positions! Oh boy! I thought Great! No position markers but this should help!
Hey, I was new at this and didnt know much, not that I know much now! But, an interesting thing happened. As I continued my upright practice, the frets on my electric bass began to annoy me. It was like they got in the way of my playing. Now, basses with position markers are extremely annoying and distracting. No thank you!
As I continued to practice, I became unhappy with my arco sound. Changing the strings helped enormously. I had my bow re-haired to a black/white mixture. This was a minor improvement. Actually, it was not my arco sound, but rather it was producing the sound that I made me unhappy. It was very difficult to get each string to speak. I eventually got better at it, and once the sound got going it gave a very nice sound. But, I really had to work at it. My arco sound improved immensely once I had the sound post adjusted slightly. Wow, that really did the trick. Now it spoke more readily and with more volume and resonance. Im sure Orchestral strings would have helped even more (I was using Spirocores red bottoms and yellow tops.)
At the end of my second year of playing upright, Id saved up enough money to buy a fully carved bass. And I really felt that my current setup was holding me back. Just executing the beginning Vance exercises was difficult. So, I decided on my budget and went shopping again. (I rather like bass shopping). I found a wonderful new Chinese Eastman. I also found three un-named Chinese basses, two used and one new. I also found a brand new un-named Hungarian bass. I spent several weeks and many hours playing them and having the Luthiers play them. It wasnt easy, but I eventually decided on the Hungarian bass. It was a bit more expensive but we worked out a trade-in that worked for me.
During this process, I discovered how the bow greatly affects the sound. I played different bows on all the candidate basses and I had the Luthiers do the same while I stood back and listened. I tried three types of German bows: Brazilwood (my bow), Pernambuco, and Carbon Fiber. They all bowed easier than my bow and bass combination. As I went back and forth between bows and basses, I notice that each bow made each bass sound completely different. The carbon fiber sounded great across the board, but made the new basses sound less warm and more new. It had great projection and gave an amazingly warm sound. I loved the sound it gave on the pre-owned basses. It was a dream to bow and made them sing! The Pernambuco gave a very warm and full sound. It made the new basses sound warm and fuller. I guess it took the edge of that new sound. My Brazilwood bow gave a more bright sound with not as much depth. Overall, it sounded and played brasher. As I played them, I liked the Pernambuco the best. I liked how it sounded. The carbon fiber sounded harsher. But, As the Luthier played and I listened, I liked the carbon fiber bow much more. It sounded more full and clean while projecting and being warm. This is just IMHO. Im sure as my bass and I mature my ears will change and so will my tastes. God! This sounds like a wine commercial! Ferjimminiecricketssake! I guess Im saying I was surprised by the difference the bow can make.
Beginning my Third Year on 3/4 Acoustic Upright Bass
Now I have a brand new fully carved ¾ size Hungarian bass! Ive had it for about two weeks and most of my previous problems are solved.
Problem #1 solved Teachers. Now, I have more teachers to choose from. (I have no intention of changing teachers. I like and still have much to learn from my current teacher.) But, now I have more options.
Problem #2 solved Balance/Stance. Now, theres no question about how far to stand from the bass. This bass balances easily with out my thumb. (OK mostly, now I have a bad habit to break!).
Problem #3 solved Upper and Thumb position. This problem was eliminated by my ½ size Meisel. But, now I can reach the thumb and upper positions more comfortably. The shoulders and width make it much easier for me.
Problem #4 solved Sound. With pizzicato I get a great warm juicy sound. Its still new but it has great resonance and sustain. I prefer the un-amplified sound. My arco playing is much better. Im using orchestral strings (red/red) and a carbon fiber bow. So, it speaks readily and with good tone at both slow and fast speeds. I whipped though the beginning Vance in one sitting! The difficulty I had with the Rabbath studies cleared up. I purchased the Vance #2 and #3 along with the Zimmerman Orchestral Excerpts and several other beginning classical books.
Problem #5 solved Car size. This is not an issue and never was! My ¾ fits easier than the ½ size Meisel??? I dont know what thats about. Maybe my case is less bulky.
Problem # 6a-c solved Comfort. The problems from using a ½ size bass are gone. I dont have to hunch, or overly extend the endpin. I have a normal endpin that has a flat bottom. Now theres less rolling and less pressure on my thumb.
Problem 7 solved Ease of use and intonation. My intonation is much better with the ¾ size. Its obvious where the C# is on the A String. I always had a problem judging this on my ½ size Meisel. Locating notes is much easier. Overall its easier to use the ½ size or the EUB. The ¾ carved solved problems I didnt even know I had.
Now, any problems I have are me not the bass. But, thats why I have a teacher.
My Future Directions
So, now that Ive finished my journey to a regular upright -- EUB then a ½ size and then a ¾ size upright I am excited to move forward. What would I have done differently? I would have start out with a ¾ size. My initial work with the EUB didnt ease my learning on a regular upright. It was just the opposite! My acoustic upright work makes playing my EUB easier. I didnt use my EUB much the first year and even less the second year. Now, I use it as a backup or when the weather is bad. I expect Ill sell it and buy an Eminence. And I just might buy an Ergo for late night and hotel practice. I dont think that any of my experience was wasted. After all, Im sitting here beside my new bass and a pile of good method books. Life cant be too bad. I think Ill get in a little more practice
Well, thats it for now. I'm sorry about the length. I welcome all comments and criticisms. Thanks.
Cleveland Donnelly
Aka Klelewon
Im a beginning upright bass player. I thought Id share my experience going from electric bass to Electric Upright (EUB) to a ½ size laminated and finally to a ¾ size fully carved.
I started out on electric bass, which I played for about a year. I got hooked on the upright sound after hearing some of the recent Cuban music exports. (Cachaito CD is great! I love Cuban music.) It was that percussive thump and juicy woody sound. My electric didnt give that sound. So, what to do? I wanted a double bass that was portable (fit my car), had position markers, within my budget $2000.00, and was of good quality. After some research I decided on the NS Design EUB. I thought that this would help bridge the gap between electric and upright. (It didnt. But I didnt know that then.) And, I thought that since I couldnt judge quality from one bass to the next, the quality of one NS Design to the next was pretty even.
My thought process was Get a bass then find a teacher. There are a lot of teachers in LA, so this should be no problem. I started looking and (problem #1) my first choice teachers said Great! Welcome to the family but you really need an acoustic upright. Once you get that well have a place to start.
But, I kept looking and I found a teacher who would take me. My First Year on Electric Upright Bass
I had about three months of instruction in my first year. My teacher generally tours and teaches at bass camps during the summer. So we didnt work together during then. But, during our time together I learned some basics of bowing and playing bass. (Problem #2 Balance/Stance) My EUB has no body or shoulders, so we had to work out a modified stance. The EUB was on a stand so far do I stand from it? I had to constantly readjust my distance. This is frustrating and no fun when playing. I eventually purchased a hip brace. It helped some, but balance and distance was still a problem. But, I kept going and learning more. (Problem #3 Upper and Thumb position) Hmmm. Theres no heel, and no reference point for the D on my G string. When Im reading music those position markers didnt help much. (Problem #4 Sound) At first my EUB sounded ok to my ears. But, in my first lesson I heard the BIG difference between my teachers carved bass and my EUB. My sound was OK, but definitely not an acoustic sound. (My ears were opening up. This was good.) But, I continued my lessons, like I said about three months worth. I mainly worked on bowing and the beginning Vance book. My practice intensity wasnt as high as I would have liked. I still mostly played my electric bass.
At the end of the year I got a gig opportunity and the owners only wanted acoustic double basses. So, I started researching and shopping for a bass in the $1,500.00 range. I looked at inexpensive Chinese basses Cremonas, Palintinos, Carlo Robelli, etc. The talkbass archives and newbie links steered me clear of that mess! So, after more research, I purchased my first Upright Bass from a reputable Luthier. I ended up with a $2,000.00 ½ size laminated German bass a Meisel. It was a very nice bass. It gave a big sound for being a ½ size bass. Of all the basses that were available this was the healthiest in my price range and time frame. And it fit my car (Problem #5) Car size should NOT be criteria for purchasing a bass! (I was told this a year earlier but it didnt really register.)
My Second Year on Acoustic ½ Size Upright Bass
During the next year my practice intensity was much higher. I really consider this my first year of playing an Upright Bass. I still had balance and stance problems, the bass was rather small and would constantly roll backward or forward (Problem # 6a). The endpin was like a cellos. This was a handicap when shifting from the lower to higher positions, and shifting in general. I was conscious of using my left thumb for balance (Problem # 6b). Because the bass was rather short I had to really extend the endpin (Im about 61.) Now my bow fell closer to midway between the fingerboard end and the bridge. But, I still had to hunch a bit (Problem # 6c).
But, overall things were much better. I was excited and my intensity was much higher. I started back with my teacher again. She was very pleased with my purchase. She was genuinely please that I had my first real bass, and that I realized that I needed an acoustic bass. I suppose she could now use standard teaching techniques. Im sure that coming up with creative techniques for the EUB was tedious. Not that this was an issue for her. Now I could go to work! We worked with the Vance and Rabbath books as well as the Real Book jazz tunes. I could feel what I played through the bass body and the air around the bass. When I bowed, it sounded like a bass. The sound was not as deep as a ¾ size bass, but it sounded better than the EUB. Or, rather it sounded different. It was woody, more deep and resonant. My pizzicato work was much easer (I could hook my thumb under the fingerboard now!!). I could easily find the G-string D. And negotiate my way up to the thumb position. And, after several months of bowing the sound began to open up! This is a wonderful experience! (I guess part of it was that my technique was improving.)
This bass had a nice rosewood fingerboard. It had grain patterns that I used for position indicators. Also, there were with finger stains at the approximate note positions! Oh boy! I thought Great! No position markers but this should help!
Hey, I was new at this and didnt know much, not that I know much now! But, an interesting thing happened. As I continued my upright practice, the frets on my electric bass began to annoy me. It was like they got in the way of my playing. Now, basses with position markers are extremely annoying and distracting. No thank you!As I continued to practice, I became unhappy with my arco sound. Changing the strings helped enormously. I had my bow re-haired to a black/white mixture. This was a minor improvement. Actually, it was not my arco sound, but rather it was producing the sound that I made me unhappy. It was very difficult to get each string to speak. I eventually got better at it, and once the sound got going it gave a very nice sound. But, I really had to work at it. My arco sound improved immensely once I had the sound post adjusted slightly. Wow, that really did the trick. Now it spoke more readily and with more volume and resonance. Im sure Orchestral strings would have helped even more (I was using Spirocores red bottoms and yellow tops.)
At the end of my second year of playing upright, Id saved up enough money to buy a fully carved bass. And I really felt that my current setup was holding me back. Just executing the beginning Vance exercises was difficult. So, I decided on my budget and went shopping again. (I rather like bass shopping). I found a wonderful new Chinese Eastman. I also found three un-named Chinese basses, two used and one new. I also found a brand new un-named Hungarian bass. I spent several weeks and many hours playing them and having the Luthiers play them. It wasnt easy, but I eventually decided on the Hungarian bass. It was a bit more expensive but we worked out a trade-in that worked for me.
During this process, I discovered how the bow greatly affects the sound. I played different bows on all the candidate basses and I had the Luthiers do the same while I stood back and listened. I tried three types of German bows: Brazilwood (my bow), Pernambuco, and Carbon Fiber. They all bowed easier than my bow and bass combination. As I went back and forth between bows and basses, I notice that each bow made each bass sound completely different. The carbon fiber sounded great across the board, but made the new basses sound less warm and more new. It had great projection and gave an amazingly warm sound. I loved the sound it gave on the pre-owned basses. It was a dream to bow and made them sing! The Pernambuco gave a very warm and full sound. It made the new basses sound warm and fuller. I guess it took the edge of that new sound. My Brazilwood bow gave a more bright sound with not as much depth. Overall, it sounded and played brasher. As I played them, I liked the Pernambuco the best. I liked how it sounded. The carbon fiber sounded harsher. But, As the Luthier played and I listened, I liked the carbon fiber bow much more. It sounded more full and clean while projecting and being warm. This is just IMHO. Im sure as my bass and I mature my ears will change and so will my tastes. God! This sounds like a wine commercial! Ferjimminiecricketssake! I guess Im saying I was surprised by the difference the bow can make.
Beginning my Third Year on 3/4 Acoustic Upright Bass
Now I have a brand new fully carved ¾ size Hungarian bass! Ive had it for about two weeks and most of my previous problems are solved.
Problem #1 solved Teachers. Now, I have more teachers to choose from. (I have no intention of changing teachers. I like and still have much to learn from my current teacher.) But, now I have more options.
Problem #2 solved Balance/Stance. Now, theres no question about how far to stand from the bass. This bass balances easily with out my thumb. (OK mostly, now I have a bad habit to break!).
Problem #3 solved Upper and Thumb position. This problem was eliminated by my ½ size Meisel. But, now I can reach the thumb and upper positions more comfortably. The shoulders and width make it much easier for me.
Problem #4 solved Sound. With pizzicato I get a great warm juicy sound. Its still new but it has great resonance and sustain. I prefer the un-amplified sound. My arco playing is much better. Im using orchestral strings (red/red) and a carbon fiber bow. So, it speaks readily and with good tone at both slow and fast speeds. I whipped though the beginning Vance in one sitting! The difficulty I had with the Rabbath studies cleared up. I purchased the Vance #2 and #3 along with the Zimmerman Orchestral Excerpts and several other beginning classical books.
Problem #5 solved Car size. This is not an issue and never was! My ¾ fits easier than the ½ size Meisel??? I dont know what thats about. Maybe my case is less bulky.
Problem # 6a-c solved Comfort. The problems from using a ½ size bass are gone. I dont have to hunch, or overly extend the endpin. I have a normal endpin that has a flat bottom. Now theres less rolling and less pressure on my thumb.
Problem 7 solved Ease of use and intonation. My intonation is much better with the ¾ size. Its obvious where the C# is on the A String. I always had a problem judging this on my ½ size Meisel. Locating notes is much easier. Overall its easier to use the ½ size or the EUB. The ¾ carved solved problems I didnt even know I had.
Now, any problems I have are me not the bass. But, thats why I have a teacher.
My Future Directions
So, now that Ive finished my journey to a regular upright -- EUB then a ½ size and then a ¾ size upright I am excited to move forward. What would I have done differently? I would have start out with a ¾ size. My initial work with the EUB didnt ease my learning on a regular upright. It was just the opposite! My acoustic upright work makes playing my EUB easier. I didnt use my EUB much the first year and even less the second year. Now, I use it as a backup or when the weather is bad. I expect Ill sell it and buy an Eminence. And I just might buy an Ergo for late night and hotel practice. I dont think that any of my experience was wasted. After all, Im sitting here beside my new bass and a pile of good method books. Life cant be too bad. I think Ill get in a little more practice
Well, thats it for now. I'm sorry about the length. I welcome all comments and criticisms. Thanks.
Cleveland Donnelly
Aka Klelewon
