My worst soundguy experience (by now)

[Clemouze]

Edit :
Please keep all in mind we were not playing this mini festival just to play.

We were playing because we were told everything will be recorded, pro set up,and we will get super cool videos.
That's why we were expecting our perfect tone !

If not that, we ever won't agreed on playing for free on a festival. Not our thing






Salut à tous, this is my story

Chapter I : Context

Playing in a little rock band, 3 years old, original songs. Only 5 years of live experience. We made our first album all by ourselves, super proud of it. You can check Cosmocracy Inc. on YouTube, Soundclound and Bandcamp. The album is named A Ride Across Your Mind.

So we are pretty experienced in crafting our tone, since we mixed album and jams and played mainly live without soundguys.

My bass tone is well established. Very clangy. 70 jazz and Rick, geddy Lee thingesque. I hate boomy stuff.
My Playing style also !
Have a LOT of effects, all set up during HOURS and HOURS of tweaking To have MY tone everywhere. ( HPF, LPF and more important my cab simulation pedal to give my personal tone to soundguy )

We were contacted by someone organizing a 2 days festival ( 5 bands a day ) in an activity Center in our town. "House of youngs and culture "
" Maison de la jeunesse et de la culture "

Ok the deal was : no cash earned ( very common in France, I don't like that ) BUT a pro stage , pro sound , pro soundguy and more important we will be filmed from several points and recorded !
NICE it's at 10 minutes in car from rehearsal room and we are lacking Good live shots ! We agreed.


Then I asked about balances checks and soundguy and gear, giving our technical road sheet.
They answered me " 30 minutes between each band to installation and balance check. No stress our sound guy is a pro , 30 years into that , everything will be fine "

At this time, I knew it will have bad ending..!

Ho yeah I am SUPER PICKY about my tone and I fear the soundguys tweakings making my bass disapear of the mix.
They asked me if I wanted to play on their bass amp. NO WAY ! I take my gear !

Chapter II : discovering the stage

Ok we bring all our stuff.
We were able to see the 2 previous bands.

1) some youngsters named " Z generation " playing covers like metallica and motorhead.
Bass is a warwick like. I can't hear the bass, only feeling subs. Ok maybe that's the tone they want

2) some olders playing jazz and bosa nova stuffs.
Bass is a goldy Spector. I can't hear the bass, only feeling subs. I SEE the bass guy doing some cool but inaudible things with his fingers. Ok not good.

I go to talk to the sound guy number 1 about the recording. " will it be only a stereo mix or each channel will be given to us ? " ( allowing us to rework the mix )
Him : There will not be any sound recording.
Me : Argh. Only the audio from the recording Ipads there?
Him : No recording, only video.
Me : Ha. *looking at him *
Him : *looking at me*
Me : * going back to my band table *

Too bad !

Chapter III : the "balance"

I took approx 10 minutes to instal my cab and head and pedalboard and quickly checking knobs.
Obviously no electricity sector output in the front of the stage for my pedalboard ( it was mentioned in the technical road sheet we gave them )
So I play in an inconfortable place to not being in the back ( I am a front bass player )
Can't move a lot while it is the biggest stage we ever play. Super....!

Soundguy asked for my XLR output.
Me " only jack output from my cab sim pedal at one end of my amp, using it line out "
Him " Ha ! 'Mokay.." * connecting his DI BOX while being not happy me doesnt wanting to use his random amp with XLR pré-EQ*

( it was mentioned in the technical road sheet we gave them )

The checks :
Voice singing - OK
Guitar Playing - OK
Keyboard Playing- OK
Then soundguy asked for bass check.
Me, being not ready yet with all those cables to stretch, taking 1 minute to play few notes.
I played 5 seconds and he said OK.
HMM ?!

Obviously the public was already here and waiting for the show to begin.
The speakerman then introduced us !!
NOT READY WARNING ! No drum check ( drum was already here from previous bands ) and worst we not even checked all the band at one time !
No feedback monitor checks ?!

Everybody starting to yell at the end of the introduction.
Ok we have to play right now I Guess
( maybe it was our mistake )


Chapter IV : The show
Between the 3d first songs we had to ask some requirement about the monitors ( more guitar , bass etc )
My bass on monitor was extremly trebly. More than usual.
The show was super good , video at the end of this post. Well I thought I was not in tune at the end of every songs Ok.
In the middle of the show I check my amp knobs ( wich were not precisely adjusted before the show )
Ho man.. my GK treble (7kHz ) were between 10 and 11 o'clock while I usually play it at 9 o'clock.
Ok I wont adjust it, the soundguy already adjusted those harsh trebles for the public, and if I touch it now I will disapear of the mix * I WAS THINKING *

Chapter V : post show

I asked the soundguy if my tone was alright , I found it harsh
He : " Well no you had A LOT of trebles. Some Rickenbacker Like "
Me and my drum player :" Ho yeah ? Cool ! " * being Rush and Yes fans *
Him : " Well not cool . I had no subs to send to subwoofers.. "
Me : " But.. you adjusted it right ? "
Him * going angry * : " No I can't create what is not existing !! There were nothing under 200 Hz "
Me in my head : " ok.. The only sub oriented device is my high pass filter at 80 Hz so I don't understand "
Him : " I see you worked your tone but there is a little more work to do. Next time we should take the signal direct out of your bass for subs "
Me : " I have all my effects "
Him " The subs don t need effects it will be ok "

Until I use a volume pedal or clean boost or two compressors LIKE THE ONES I USE EVERYTIME I GUESS.

The bass check took 5 seconds ! Come on !
You know I have something called a BASS KNOB in my amp. Could have adjusted it if asking !

Then the next band bass player came on stage and asked if he could use my bass amp
Me *looking at all those LEDS of effects stuff of my gear , like a spaceship controlboard * : " hmm it is pretty personalised. What do you want tonely speaking ? "
Him :" I don't know. A bass tone ! "
Me in my head : " Ok goodbye I take everything."

He used the first stage bass amp.

We then saw the next band.
Power trio AC DC style
The bass and drum kick and low tom drum were all mud. 0 definition. My nightmare !!
Is it what the soundguy wanted for me ?
Glad I sculpted the tone a lot before sending it to him ! No way a soundguy will do that !
I think they had to adapt the band tone to room but NOT to craft the band tone !


Chapter VI : Conclusion

According to audience :
My bass was really loud and little harsh BUT we had the best sound !!
No mud no boom boom no frequency fight. Just a super cling clang bass !
Ho man those Gallien Krueger trebles knobs are very powerfull..!



The video and sound were recording with a camera, I did a slight mastering on the audio :





Thanks for reading

 

[s0c9]

My $0.02 ???
Welcome to the world of festival gigs..

Yes, twangy bass .. Definitely not a typical bass tone, and interesting to get the pop/slap tone from finger-style playing, but it appears to fit the music - if that is what you are looking for.
Thought is sounded fine 2 me.

 

[Paulabass]

Other than the serious treble happening, I gotta sat that almost everything you mention is standard operating procedure for the size and type of event. Unless you're playing a much bigger festival, where EVERYBODY is getting paid, you will face 5 second sound checks. The headliner gets a soundcheck, and that's it. In multi band setting I like the stage manager to do 15 minute changeovers, so you had some luxury there. How fast the soundman can work once he hears what he's got to work with varies greatly, but in situations like this- I know the drum sound already. Vocals are not going to change much from the last act, so in 15 seconds or so I need to get a guitar, bass, and keys LEVEL, then in the next 30 or so seconds, get those sounding good. It is not ideal, but it is common.
I don't think your soundman did anything WRONG, he did his job. If you can leave an event like that, and only one channel didn't sound like you expected, you have done extremely well.- Paula, FOH for Rock and Roll Hall of Fame bassist Prakash John.

 

[CB3UK]

I dont blame you for getting fired up about it. Listening to your video, yeah, you weren't lying about what you want for your tone. Each individual member's sound contributre to the whole sound of the band. Im more of a thump, slap and pop guy (Warwicks! ) so youre tone definitely isnt what I myself would want, but I like it and definitely dug the music in your video.

Like the guy above said....thats festival gigs. Get in, get on, get out. Especially when its for free. They arent worried about the minutiae of each band. I wouldnt get too fired up about it. It happens to us all at some point.

 

[jaco944]

Who cares about the bass tone, where’d you get that kick ass skeleton suit!
Ps bass sounds fine to me.

 

[Clemouze]

My $0.02 ???
Welcome to the world of festival gigs..

Yes, twangy bass .. Definitely not a typical bass tone, and interesting to get the pop/slap tone from finger-style playing, but it appears to fit the music - if that is what you are looking for.
Thought is sounded fine 2 me.

Cool thanks
I like twangy trebles but only a little less than on this show.
But well it seems the soundguy was the only one to hate it. Thanks he doesnt suceed to "correct" it !

 

[Clemouze]

Other than the serious treble happening, I gotta sat that almost everything you mention is standard operating procedure for the size and type of event. Unless you're playing a much bigger festival, where EVERYBODY is getting paid, you will face 5 second sound checks. The headliner gets a soundcheck, and that's it. In multi band setting I like the stage manager to do 15 minute changeovers, so you had some luxury there. How fast the soundman can work once he hears what he's got to work with varies greatly, but in situations like this- I know the drum sound already. Vocals are not going to change much from the last act, so in 15 seconds or so I need to get a guitar, bass, and keys LEVEL, then in the next 30 or so seconds, get those sounding good. It is not ideal, but it is common.
I don't think your soundman did anything WRONG, he did his job. If you can leave an event like that, and only one channel didn't sound like you expected, you have done extremely well.- Paula, FOH for Rock and Roll Hall of Fame bassist Prakash John.

Cool Thanks for your message regarding your experience !
The " No worry he is a pro it will be fine " let me wait something else, but I will now be prepared for the true reality!

 

[Clemouze]

Who cares about the bass tone, where’d you get that kick ass skeleton suit!
Ps bass sounds fine to me.

Thanks
I admit , I REALLY like Entwistle

 

[Geri O]

I hates it for you and your experience (I didn't read it. I can guess 80% of it)

However, you missed this little sticky at the top of this forum....

Bashing Sound Engineers...no longer allowed.

 

[Clemouze]

I hates it for you and your experience (I didn't read it. I can guess 80% of it)

However, you missed this little sticky at the top of this forum....

Bashing Sound Engineers...no longer allowed.

Indeed I missed it
I thought the " my experience " thing was more important than just a simple bashing
( what I hoped, what I did etc )

But I Guess it is the end for this post

 

[Barisaxman]

One suggestion...if that pile of micro pedals on your amp is to create your FOH tone (HP/LP, cab sim, etc.), is get them on another pedal board and add a DI to it so you can toss it up on your amp and go, OR get a bigger pedal board and put everything on it, with one send to your stage amp and one an XLR for FOH. You seem to have a LOT of loose cables and opportunity for knobs to get moved there.

As others have said, the key to festival slots is get on stage, get set, play, get off...all as quickly as possible. Unless you're headlining a very large festival stage, you most likely won't get the benefit of having someone look at or accommodate a stage plot/tech rider sheet. That being said, not having power available at the front line for your pedalboard is lazy on the sound company's part. When doing a festival stage, sound production 101 is having lots of power drops available and have the monitors set up in logical places that band can adapt to quickly. Backlined drums means 30 min should be more than enough for changeovers.

Minimal sound/line checks are the order of the day as well. Be prepared for a less-than-optimal monitor mix (ideally with a monitor engineer to help adjust on the fly) and go fast, have fun, etc. Most bands don't sound their best under these circumstances, but a qualified engineer at FOH/Monitor world can get a band really close, as long as the band has their stuff in order. That's what fuels my suggestion above. You want to be able to get your gear up and down with minimal knob fiddling and being confident that what you're giving FOH is 100% what you want, because the FOH guy is probably not going to do much with it, as they don't have time to dial much in for you. In my neck-of-the-woods, we call it "combat audio" because the key is to tweak things quickly and move on, because as quick as the band comes up, their set is over and you're doing it again for the next act. There simply isn't time to spend a lot of time working on anything. You get it close and keep the flow moving. All that being said, it sounds like you got a pretty typical festival slot, the videos sound mostly like what you're going for, so call it a success and a learning experience for the next one.

 

[Clemouze]

One suggestion...if that pile of micro pedals on your amp is to create your FOH tone (HP/LP, cab sim, etc.), is get them on another pedal board and add a DI to it so you can toss it up on your amp and go, OR get a bigger pedal board and put everything on it, with one send to your stage amp and one an XLR for FOH. You seem to have a LOT of loose cables and opportunity for knobs to get moved there.

As others have said, the key to festival slots is get on stage, get set, play, get off...all as quickly as possible. Unless you're headlining a very large festival stage, you most likely won't get the benefit of having someone look at or accommodate a stage plot/tech rider sheet. That being said, not having power available at the front line for your pedalboard is lazy on the sound company's part. When doing a festival stage, sound production 101 is having lots of power drops available and have the monitors set up in logical places that band can adapt to quickly. Backlined drums means 30 min should be more than enough for changeovers.

Minimal sound/line checks are the order of the day as well. Be prepared for a less-than-optimal monitor mix (ideally with a monitor engineer to help adjust on the fly) and go fast, have fun, etc. Most bands don't sound their best under these circumstances, but a qualified engineer at FOH/Monitor world can get a band really close, as long as the band has their stuff in order. That's what fuels my suggestion above. You want to be able to get your gear up and down with minimal knob fiddling and being confident that what you're giving FOH is 100% what you want, because the FOH guy is probably not going to do much with it, as they don't have time to dial much in for you. In my neck-of-the-woods, we call it "combat audio" because the key is to tweak things quickly and move on, because as quick as the band comes up, their set is over and you're doing it again for the next act. There simply isn't time to spend a lot of time working on anything. You get it close and keep the flow moving. All that being said, it sounds like you got a pretty typical festival slot, the videos sound mostly like what you're going for, so call it a success and a learning experience for the next one.

Thanks again

Yes the micro pedals are for tone.
3 are in the effect loop ( EQ , HPF, LPF )
And two are connected to the line out of my amp ( receiving tone affected by the master knob ) : a volume reduction and the cab sim !
Maybe I will put them on a little board which will stay on top of the head.
I started putting tape on some of them To lock knobs !

For the show they were fine, it was my head knobs that I set up too quickly
( I know the set up that I always use but this time it was panic onboard, just a slight angles more leading to big dB boost )

 

[Geri O]

Indeed I missed it
I thought the " my experience " thing was more important than just a simple bashing
( what I hoped, what I did etc )

But I Guess it is the end for this post

Just carry on as some good info helpful to everyone may crop up, deeming the entire thread worthy of NOT being closed. As both full-time bassist and pro audio guy, I see some good info here and your experience is certainly worthy of relating to. But there are rules, ya know....

Good luck with your next outing.

 

[sawzalot]

This is standard for playing festivals. Those kinds of shows are VERY hard on the sound engineer and most of the time they are dealing with problems you don't even know exist. It is not the time to get very picky with the FOH engineer. It's important to try to get your sound across to the audience, but frankly 30 minutes between bands is generous. That means fifteen minutes to get the previous band off the stage, fifteen minutes to get your band on the stage, do a line check, sound check, and go. The important thing is to make it easy for the FOH engineer to work with you and that will help you in the long run. So as you tweak your sound, you also need to tweak your sound to be great sounding in the FOH system, which will help make these events easier.

 

[CBBass123]

The reason we do 5 second checks is kinda just to pretend to check. Just to get a quick audio reference but mainly gain staging. I normally have an eq curve that generally works with most players then as the band starts playing i'll quickly adjust.

Sometimes, free festivals, the equipment is crappy and bass tones will be middy and trebly to fight through the crowd with crappy subs. If i'm preparing for a bigger artist or paid show... the good stuff gets put to work. When i'm not doing sound, I also play tons of shows where i get a 3 to 5 second sound check. But since I already know the behind the scenes because i do it... it doesnt bother me.

 

[Ronzo]

There are many charity events in my area, with FOH provided. Few sound companies, however, want to run bass through their equipment; their experience with many bands is that a) the bassist complains about not getting “their sound” through the FOH system, or b) the bassist sends post-EQ DI and then cranks their amp on stage, damaging the FOH equipment.

I’ve always gone with my GK 400RB with a 2x10 plus a 1x15 in that situation, and offered the sound engineer a DI either pre- or post-EQ, or both. The DI is usually declined, and my rig carried the day. Never a complaint. Sound engineer usually compliments my sound, and the audience seems to like it.

 

[Spectrum]

I hates it for you and your experience (I didn't read it. I can guess 80% of it)

However, you missed this little sticky at the top of this forum....

Bashing Sound Engineers...no longer allowed.

Let the mods be the mods.

OP: You sounded good, and while there is good advice here on how to deal with festival gigs, you were right to stand your ground. You're not putting on a show for the sound man, so he doesn't have to like your tone.

 

[Playsjazz1]

After listening to your clip I see what you mean about it being all highs. As you said, it seems like you guys are fairly new to the festival world and gigging live in general. In my 20+ years of touring and playing every crappy festival to headlining and actually getting a real sound check, everything you experienced is 100% normal for those type of gigs. I didn’t think you were bashing the sound guy, but trying to learn how to do it better next time.

What I have found that works really well is take a basic rig for festivals and gigs like that to just plug and play. Leave as much of the pedals out of it as you can...helps the sound guy out and gets you playing fast. Spend some time figuring out what you can live without and still get the basic tone/sounds you want. Just guessing but we’re you running everything Post EQ to DI? That might explain the lack of anything below 200hz. Or in the rush something got bumped and you had no idea?

For gigs where you are the only act or headliner, do your whole rig and most likely you will find the need to adjust eq/effect levels for each event/gig. Trying to run the same eq/effect settings from your practice space to a raised, hollow stage with industrial PA will cause frustration.

Goodbye luck next time and welcome to the world of Festivals!

 

[Clemouze]

After listening to your clip I see what you mean about it being all highs. As you said, it seems like you guys are fairly new to the festival world and gigging live in general. In my 20+ years of touring and playing every crappy festival to headlining and actually getting a real sound check, everything you experienced is 100% normal for those type of gigs. I didn’t think you were bashing the sound guy, but trying to learn how to do it better next time.

What I have found that works really well is take a basic rig for festivals and gigs like that to just plug and play. Leave as much of the pedals out of it as you can...helps the sound guy out and gets you playing fast. Spend some time figuring out what you can live without and still get the basic tone/sounds you want. Just guessing but we’re you running everything Post EQ to DI? That might explain the lack of anything below 200hz. Or in the rush something got bumped and you had no idea?

For gigs where you are the only act or headliner, do your whole rig and most likely you will find the need to adjust eq/effect levels for each event/gig. Trying to run the same eq/effect settings from your practice space to a raised, hollow stage with industrial PA will cause frustration.

Goodbye luck next time and welcome to the world of Festivals!

Thanks

Exact , everything post EQ and DI
but I used cab sim.
I use this setup to record jams or even to send to FOH on other lives.
Never have issue with that ! Always have the tone I like to hear and like to use for mixing.

So either the lack of low was exagerated by the soundguy expecting another tone, either one knob was baddly turned and I didn't notice !

 

[Clemouze]

Please keep all in mind we were not playing this mini festival just to play.

We were playing because we were told everything will be recorded, pro set up,and we will get super cool videos.
That's why we were expecting our perfect tone !

If not that, we ever won't agreed on playing for free on a festival. Not our thing