My worst soundguy experience (by now)

[kalle74]

The more I read these "horror stories" of festival performances, the more convinced I am that the band/artist is to blame for about 80% of the problems.


Make sure you have provided all *up-to-date* tech info to festival tech crew well in advance. This includes a channel list and a stage plot. Last minute changes make a hassle, and generally are not received well.

Unless you are the main act of the night, don't expect too much (like power outlets laid out where you need them, or lengthy soundchecks).

Prepare.

Set your stuff on wheels, and set everything up (check, and double-check) sidestage/backstage well before changeover. Have a loom with your pedalboard that carries power and signals to and from your pedalboard. Taking 10min to set up your stuff on stage is way too long. If you use a cab mic, provide one yourself (incl a mic stand, CabGrabber etc). With everything prepped, it takes maybe 2min to roll it up on stage, and plug in the power and XLR to house.

Provide a balanced, good sound without buzzes etc. This includes a shielded instrument (that is in tune), thought-out cabling, and quality components on your rig.

A quick line-check will most likely be all you get. Accept it. Give a signal when asked to, and be quiet when they're checking other stuff.

Realise, that the tech crew is in constant rush, and compromises may have to be made.

If someone seems grumpy, give him/her a second chance. Festival surroundings usually make for a stressful day for the tech crew, since there might be a lot of things going on, which the performer may know nothing about.

If you are very adamant about your sound, hire your own sound guy(s).

 

[Wasnex]

The more I read these "horror stories" of festival performances, the more convinced I am that the band/artist is to blame for about 80% of the problems.


Make sure you have provided all *up-to-date* tech info to festival tech crew well in advance. This includes a channel list and a stage plot. Last minute changes make a hassle, and generally are not received well.

Unless you are the main act of the night, don't expect too much (like power outlets laid out where you need them, or lengthy soundchecks).

Prepare.

Set your stuff on wheels, and set everything up (check, and double-check) sidestage/backstage well before changeover. Have a loom with your pedalboard that carries power and signals to and from your pedalboard. Taking 10min to set up your stuff on stage is way too long. If you use a cab mic, provide one yourself (incl a mic stand, CabGrabber etc). With everything prepped, it takes maybe 2min to roll it up on stage, and plug in the power and XLR to house.

Provide a balanced, good sound without buzzes etc. This includes a shielded instrument (that is in tune), thought-out cabling, and quality components on your rig.

A quick line-check will most ikely be all you get. Accept it. Give a signal when asked to, and be quiet when they're checking other stuff.

Realise, that the tech crew is in constant rush, and compromises may have to be made.

If someone seems grumpy, give him/her a second chance. Festival surroundings usually make for a stressful day for the tech crew, since there might be a lot of things going on, which the performer may know nothing about.

If you are very adamant about your sound, hire your own sound guy(s).

I did another gig on a fairly large stage in in Brussels. I think it was a different trip than I referenced in post #59. The bass drum mic fell out of the clip during one of our first songs and came in contact with the drum skin. Of course the sound was very obviously distorted and distracting, but no one bothered to do anything about it.

These were major music festivals with multiple huge well-funded stages with stellar lighting and sound systems, attended by large audiences. We advanced everything thoroughly and any problems that were incurred were due to the sound crews inattention or lack of professionalism. Should have been some of the best gigs of my life, but turned out to be some of the worst.

In my experience, if you get setup fast enough you usually have time to dial in a couple of monitor mixes. So it really pays to be organized and efficient...except on the rare occasions when it doesn't. The vast majority of the festival gigs I have done have faded into my memory because they went smoothly.

 

[kalle74]

I did another gig on a fairly large stage in in Brussels. I think it was a different trip than I referenced in post #59. The bass drum mic fell out of the clip during one of our first songs and came in contact with the drum skin. Of course the sound was very obviously distorted and distracting, but no one bothered to do anything about it.

This, unfortunately, displays the (IMO quite) rare occasion of tech crew that won't be bothered. It's a shame, and quite unprofessional as well.

I can't speak for others (nor change their behavior, for that matter), but I would definitely get off my *** and fix it ASAP.

There are hacks, too, I'm afraid.

 

[Clemouze]

A) I have nothing useful to say about your issue, so I should shut up... but...
B) I'm watching all your videos and enjoying them all a lot, so I thought I should post to say so!


So.. thanks to that sound guy for creating problems so that I get to learn about you and enjoy your music that I would have otherwise missed!

Haha cool Thanks !

 

[kcducttaper]

I did another gig on a fairly large stage in in Brussels. I think it was a different trip than I referenced in post #59. The bass drum mic fell out of the clip during one of our first songs and came in contact with the drum skin. Of course the sound was very obviously distorted and distracting, but no one bothered to do anything about it.

So why didn't you or your drummer stick it back on? Sure it's "not your job" but who gives a turkey?

 

[Wasnex]

So why didn't you or your drummer stick it back on? Sure it's "not your job" but who gives a turkey?

We had a fast paced show or I would have tried. I don't think the group leader noticed and when we had a large audience he wouldn't stop/delay for anything. When he got in the zone you really couldn't pull him out.

Also, I have been in situations where it almost came to blows for touching someone else's audio equipment. That reminds me of another Fest Gig story.

We showed up at the prescribed time to do our setup and sound check on the main stage. This was a pretty low budget event. Recorded music was blaring on the system and no one was around. We had advanced the gig and planned to use our system, because it was way better and there was plenty of setup time.

So we endured the recorded music while we unloaded the truck and setup. We tried to make a few phone calls to ask the audio tech either turn the system off or give us permission to turn it off ourselves. No one answered, so when we were ready to sound check I pushed the mute button on the mixer's input channels that controlled the music. We had barely started playing when the audio tech came up ranting and raving about me touching his gear and how I didn't know what I was doing and could have damaged something. This actually went on for quite some time.

Apparently he had left the system on so he could work on connecting some of his distributed speakers. I tried to explain that since they were run off an aux that he didn't need the speakers on at the main stage. Basically it was possible for him to continue working on the distributed speakers while we did sound check. I don't know if he just wanted to argue some more, or didn't understand the various ways you can adjust a mixing board.

To be honest, I would be a bit upset if someone started messing with my gear as well. But we arrived at the agreed time, he was way late, and all I did was press two mute buttons. There was no damage and all that was required to reset the system was to press the two buttons again. But he had to make a huge deal out of it that bordered on threatened violence and intentionally damaging our gear.

 

[edro]

Many times doing a fest, if you ain't HL, you get fronts, floors, and some lights....with no magic... Just is....

 

[4Mal]

Thanks good advice if I need to do more lives, but on the other hand we play only a little live and really want to show to the public our sound. We want having control on it.
I even think I prefer not playing than playing without MY tone.
So yeah we will ask more precisely before each potential shows and chose in function of this availability to have control
Not good or bad, just a preference !

Hire a band engineer and pay them well enough to stay around if it important to your artistic sensibilities. I host guest engineers and only remove them when they attempt to blow up my rig in pursuit of the perfect dub step thing way at way too high a volume for my rig...and yeah, I have booted a couple of guys from my board. They were clueless and not worthy of the band engineer title. More like ‘friend of the lead singer’...

 

[Clemouze]

Hire a band engineer and pay them well enough to stay around if it important to your artistic sensibilities. I host guest engineers and only remove them when they attempt to blow up my rig in pursuit of the perfect dub step thing way at way too high a volume for my rig...and yeah, I have booted a couple of guys from my board. They were clueless and not worthy of the band engineer title. More like ‘friend of the lead singer’...

It would be cool but because we are playing very often for free or earn very few, and since we are allowing free download of our album, we will have to find a FRIEND and to not pay him. Well he will be part of the band right ?

 

[LowFactor]

I have done a lot of Festivals(stadiums, multiple semis full of gear types)over the years as a audio engineer. I always pack extra gear and try to plan for everything my experience tells me too. And it doesn’t matter how nice your stage plot and input list is. Could be the most professional thing ever produced. 95% of the time I don’t see it till I’m onsite at the festival. I always ask and beg the promoters ahead of time but they don’t pass on the info you sent to them 2 months ago till it’s too late. Last festival I did about a month ago they sent me all of the stage plots as I’m shutting the door on the semi at the shop. One promoter wouldn’t give me any info till the start of each festival day. Hard to plan ahead in that situation. Especially if special equipment is needed. We were 8 hours from the shop in another state...
just cause you sent someone info doesn’t mean that those who truly need it have gotten it.

 

[pcake]

i don't care for a bright bass sound unless it's for specific, articulate leads, and i agree with the OP that the video sounds disappointing. if i liked bright, maybe i'd have had a different take.

I agree on a high quality 2 track recorder. In a festival situation, when bands asks me to record them, multitrack or otherwise I always say no. A board 2 track mix is backward, a mirror image of how loud each instrument is, so vocals a re very loud and drums disappear. My board has multitrack capability, but if I'm busy, as discussed in this thread, I'm not going to fiddle around with SD cards. I'm busy. If I forget to arm tracks, or even hit record, the band gets upset 'We lost 15 seconds of our first song!!!!' To keep it all fair and good, just no. 99% of the time a Zoom 2 track on a tripod gets you a good result, and has audience noise for a live feel.

i totally see where you're coming from and agree.

the problem here is that the OP's band agreed to do this festival because they were promised recording and video. and yeah, the sound person's main concern is doing sound for the entire festival so that everything works, but that's not what the band was promised, so the problem wasn't so much the sound person as the organizer making promises that they couldn't keep. and we don't know if the organizer even tried to keep them.

OP, always get everything you're promised in writing, whether it's pro recordings or green M&Ms.

 

[4Mal]

It would be cool but because we are playing very often for free or earn very few, and since we are allowing free download of our album, we will have to find a FRIEND and to not pay him. Well he will be part of the band right ?

No. If he is any good, he is skilled labor and deserves to be paid for his labor in your band’s behalf... you are investing in the future. Sound guys rarely get inducted into the hall of fame or invited to the Grammys... just sayin’

 

[Clemouze]

No. If he is any good, he is skilled labor and deserves to be paid for his labor in your band’s behalf... you are investing in the future. Sound guys rarely get inducted into the hall of fame or invited to the Grammys... just sayin’

Ok thanks
We already talked about that with the band and thought that IF someone is doing our mixing ( on recording or in live ) he should be very close to us, our sound, our view of the thing, like another band member and not just a technical hired guy.
But again we are not pro and dont want to be !

 

[pcake]

Ok thanks
We already talked about that with the band and thought that IF someone is doing our mixing ( on recording or in live ) he should be very close to us, our sound, our view of the thing, like another band member and not just a technical hired guy.
But again we are not pro and dont want to be !

unless your friend knows how to mix, his knowing how you want to sound won't be much help.

whether you are pros or not, it's obvious you care how you sound. a newbie to sound isn't going to know what adjustments will change your sound in a particular way - say you sound boomy or the cymbals hiss too much. since each room or outdoor stage is different, you won't be able to just show him how you like it because - for example - mixing an outdoor stadium is completely different from mixing in a bar, and the outdoor stadium will have challengess.

 

[Wasnex]

unless your friend knows how to mix, his knowing how you want to sound won't be much help.

whether you are pros or not, it's obvious you care how you sound. a newbie to sound isn't going to know what adjustments will change your sound in a particular way - say you sound boomy or the cymbals hiss too much. since each room or outdoor stage is different, you won't be able to just show him how you like it because - for example - mixing an outdoor stadium is completely different from mixing in a bar, and the outdoor stadium will have challengess.

You make good points, but IMHO but it doesn't make a lot of sense for an amateur band to hire a full time professional audio tech.

The same logic should apply to the musicians: For example, a professional band would want musicians who have mastered their instrument and repertoire, and know how to adjust an amp to get a good stage balance. But if the band is not making any money you take whoever is willing to play with you for a stake in the dream.

 

[Wisebass]

Salut à tous, this is my story

Salut Clemouze

Three things to talk about 1) MJC, 2) You! 3) FOH guy

" Maison de la jeunesse et de la culture "

pro stage , pro sound , pro soundguy and more important we will be filmed from several points and recorded !

1) MJC

I can understand that you are disappointed with your MJC. (broken promises about recording )

There is not a lot you can do about what happend to you,

but you can make sure that it will not happen again!

MJCs are associations (non profit organizations). You can become a member!

I' ve been working (professionally) for an MCL (Maison de la Culture et…dans le 88 ).

Believe me! You can change things!



2) You!

Soundguy asked for my XLR output.
Me " only jack output from my cab sim pedal at one end of my amp, using it line out "

????????

You don' t have a balanced XLR out at the end of your signal chain? You' re kidding?

When you want FOH to use your "post board" signal, you should give them

the opportunity to just plug in and be happy! Get a good D.I. box to use after you cab sim!

Me, being not ready yet with all those cables to stretch

Not finding what you asked for, at the place you asked for? Normal on these kind of gigs.

When you are not the first band, the three plug extension cord you asked for

will have disapeared before you set up. (maybe the guy who makes the french fries uses it )

Bring your own stuff! ( bring more than you think you will need!) Always!!!!

n the middle of the show I check my amp knobs ( wich were not precisely adjusted before the show )
Ho man.. my GK treble (7kHz ) were between 10 and 11 o'clock while I usually play it at 9 o'clock.

Sacré bordel mon ami!

To sum it up: When you play festivals you have to be boy scout (be prepared!), Macgyver (improvise)

and Speedy Gonzales (fastest guy setting up and breaking down on stage)

3) FOH guy

According to audience :
My bass was really loud and little harsh BUT we had the best sound !!
No mud no boom boom no frequency fight. Just a super cling clang bass !

Job done! Forget about the rest! The video was okay. (cool outfit btw)

may the bass be with you

Wise(b)ass

 

[Clemouze]

Salut Clemouze

Three things to talk about 1) MJC, 2) You! 3) FOH guy





1) MJC

I can understand that you are disappointed with your MJC. (broken promises about recording )

There is not a lot you can do about what happend to you,

but you can make sure that it will not happen again!

MJCs are associations (non profit organizations). You can become a member!

I' ve been working (professionally) for an MCL (Maison de la Culture et…dans le 88 ).

Believe me! You can change things!



2) You!



????????

You don' t have a balanced XLR out at the end of your signal chain? You' re kidding?

When you want FOH to use your "post board" signal, you should give them

the opportunity to just plug in and be happy! Get a good D.I. box to use after you cab sim!




Not finding what you asked for, at the place you asked for? Normal on these kind of gigs.

When you are not the first band, the three plug extension cord you asked for

will have disapeared before you set up. (maybe the guy who makes the french fries uses it )

Bring your own stuff! ( bring more than you think you will need!) Always!!!!



Sacré bordel mon ami!

To sum it up: When you play festivals you have to be boy scout (be prepared!), Macgyver (improvise)

and Speedy Gonzales (fastest guy setting up and breaking down on stage)

3) FOH guy



Job done! Forget about the rest! The video was okay. (cool outfit btw)

may the bass be with you

Wise(b)ass

Haha Thanks ! Funny I am from the Vosges !

To answer point 2)
Yes no XLR output because the cab sim pedal only has line out jack.
To record on rehearsal or album recording or even the last show with soundguy the week before this show, it was all fine !
Since it was written on the technical sheet, and I never needed one, I did not buy a DI BOX just for the show.
It was Ok since the soundguy had one.
But I think yes maybe I will buy one to have a total master control , even for only few shows in the year !

About the cables , I had everything but I didn't want To be Behind the Keyboard guy and since There were no electrical supplies in front I had to move my bass amp several times, being careful with jack and pedals power supplies cables, having difficulties To move between keyboard and drum stage !


But yeah point 3, at least the public and mort important I liked ( mostly ) the tone , so everything good in the end, I learned few things! ( particularly the fact I was right investing into lot of gear to send to FOH my wanted tone, and not just accepting a pre-EQ DI take by the soundguy. )


Next time I think I will create a mini pedal board in the top of my amp, with the filters and EQ and bass cab sim and maybe DI BOX, locking the knobs to have MY tone, and put everything inside a big black box, so the soundguy won't ask or complain just by looking the mess and will only have to connect the XLR !
( even if jack line out was fine )

Also Next time I will ASK after a few songs how is the bass tone in FOH.
That could had been helpful here, and I could had just turned trebles and bass knobs between songs


Sorry for my english

 

[s0c9]

Haha Thanks ! Funny I am from the Vosges !

To answer point 2)
Yes no XLR output because the cab sim pedal only has line out jack.
To record on rehearsal or album recording or even the last show with soundguy the week before this show, it was all fine !
Since it was written on the technical sheet, and I never needed one, I did not buy a DI BOX just for the show.
It was Ok since the soundguy had one.
But I think yes maybe I will buy one to have a total master control , even for only few shows in the year !

About the cables , I had everything but I didn't want To be Behind the Keyboard guy and since There were no electrical supplies in front I had to move my bass amp several times, being careful with jack and pedals power supplies cables, having difficulties To move between keyboard and drum stage !


But yeah point 3, at least the public and mort important I liked ( mostly ) the tone , so everything good in the end, I learned few things! ( particularly the fact I was right investing into lot of gear to send to FOH my wanted tone, and not just accepting a pre-EQ DI take by the soundguy. )


Next time I think I will create a mini pedal board in the top of my amp, with the filters and EQ and bass cab sim and maybe DI BOX, locking the knobs to have MY tone, and put everything inside a big black box, so the soundguy won't ask or complain just by looking the mess and will only have to connect the XLR !
( even if jack line out was fine )

Also Next time I will ASK after a few songs how is the bass tone in FOH.
That could had been helpful here, and I could had just turned trebles and bass knobs between songs


Sorry for my english

I think the point most people here are making is that you need to be ready for this type of gig IF you plan to do them in the future. Fast on/off times, everything modular, power extension cables so you can hook up to wherever their power drops are, XLR (DI) capabilty to make it easy for FOH hookup, and so on.
Your posts I have read tell me that your expectations were not really met, but you also were not (as a band) well prepared for the event - in my opinion. That is NOT your fault on your first festival gig. Learn from the experience and future gigs will be much more enjoyable and productive. I know I hate having to play when things are not "right". It impacts my playing and my mental state

PS: You guys sounded pretty good, when factoring in all you had to go thru. However, whenever I run FOH at festivals, and I see a band bringing up lots of pedals, outboard gear and other "stuff", it tells me they are inexperienced and the stage setup time my job could be tough. Make it easy for everyone involved and it will all go much smoother. For example.. Get a straight DI - like a radial or countryman. Carry it with you at all times.

 

[Clemouze]

I think the point most people here are making is that you need to be ready for this type of gig IF you plan to do them in the future. Fast on/off times, everything modular, power extension cables to you can hook up to wherever their power drops are, XLR (DI) capabilty to make it easy for FOH hookup, and so on.
All the post I have read that your expectations were not really met, but you also were not (as a band) well prepared for the event. Like all bands, that is NOT your fault on your first festival gig. Learn from the experience and future gigs like that will be much more enjoyable and productive. I know I hate having to play when things are not "right". It impacts my playing and my mental state

Yes indeed first fesrival thing for us ! At least my bass is all in trebles and not all in subs ( THAT would be the worst scenario )

Also I play better angry so...!
Haha

Next time the soundguy will received my recording album tone direct by XLR !
And if he is not pleased by the tone well don't really care, he can adjust to speakers or room but certainly can't denature the tone.

What really made not happy was the "you have to work more on your tone " ( while all the other bands bass tones were pure subby mud ) and the fact all the correctives needed were able for me by tuning just two knobs .
IRONIC

 

[Pat C.]

In the middle of the show I check my amp knobs ( wich were not precisely adjusted before the show )
Ho man.. my GK treble (7kHz ) were between 10 and 11 o'clock while I usually play it at 9 o'clock.
Ok I wont adjust it, the soundguy already adjusted those harsh trebles for the public, and if I touch it now I will disapear of the mix * I WAS THINKING *

I think it would've been fine to adjust your EQ controls in the middle of the set. As long as you're not making extreme adjustments it you should be able to tweak things to your liking. You have put such a big emphasis on having your sound - using all your effects and amplification - but then are not willing to make a small EQ adjustment to suit your taste.

Chapter V : post show

I asked the soundguy if my tone was alright , I found it harsh

Him : " Well not cool . I had no subs to send to subwoofers.. "
Me : " But.. you adjusted it right ? "
Him * going angry * : " No I can't create what is not existing !! There were nothing under 200 Hz "
Me in my head : " ok.. The only sub oriented device is my high pass filter at 80 Hz so I don't understand "
Him : " I see you worked your tone but there is a little more work to do. Next time we should take the signal direct out of your bass for subs "
Me : " I have all my effects "
Him " The subs don t need effects it will be ok "

Are you saying you run HPF at 80hz? That alone could take you out of the subs and definitely can contribute to a harsh sound. It's possible that all the mids/treble in your tone would've been balanced out nicely if there was more low end in your signal. So the soundguy was maybe not completely wrong.