myth-busting: Resonance is not synonymous with Vibration

[BBQisgood]

it's not the correct use of the word.
The more time I spend with humans, the more I don't understand why most of them just don't care.

It is an acceptable use of the word. Some do care, but everyday semantics will not tend to be congruent with scientific terminology. Some people do care and some don’t.

There are all kinds of people in the world, and it’s OK for people to have different opinions and communicate in different ways.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

it’s OK for people to have different opinions and communicate in different ways

It's not really a good idea, because it results in miscommunication.
Even something as simple as a date-format can screw things up if you're on different pages:
02-Nov-20

 

[HaphAsSard]

I had assumed it was a centre block the full length.

It is, but in the shape of a squat U when viewed/imagined from the side: there's a ~2cm gap between it and the top under the latter's centre area.
Anyone for hollow-bodies and similar basses? (&ff)

 

[BBQisgood]

It's not really a good idea, because it results in miscommunication.
Even something as simple as a date-format can screw things up if you're on different pages:
02-Nov-20

So it’s not good that people have different opinions and that there’s a diversity of different expressions?

 

[Polkatronixx]

So it’s not good that people have different opinions and that there’s a diversity of different expressions?

Language evolves. Oftentimes, the meaning of a word evolved anyway to be the "correct" meaning that people are arguing about. It's stupid to argue too much about how a word is using if it's okay and everyone understands what is meant in the context of the discussion that is taking place.

 

[James Collins]

I'm certain that you think any vibration is resonance.
Resonance also means different things in different situations.

In Electronics, the Resonant Frequency is where the Capacitance & Inductance are matched in a way that produces the most signal, hence the Resonant Peak:

View attachment 4039400

It's counterintuitive with an electric bass, where an instrument vibrating at its resonant frequency is actually soaking up energy from the string vibration & dampening the output.
Maybe we get lucky & the instrument's resonant frequency is outside the range of the notes it produces!




You're confounding Resonance & Vibration, if it's resonating it's doing the opposite of spiking.




It's all too often that the ad-copy for a piece of gear is 'hyped up' with incorrect assertions.
Just last week I was reading a description for an instrument with Nordstrand Big Split pickups where the author wrote that the pickups are 'coil-tappable'.

There's two things incorrect about that, firstly: we don't coil-'tap' humbuckers, we coil-split them
This is a coil-tap:
View attachment 4039401
It's done with single-coils, where you TAP into the center of the coil. This is not applicable to humbuckers.

Secondly: You cannot coil-split a split-coil humbucker like the Big Split, because then only half the strings would produce a signal

I'm not confusing resonance and vibration. Not at all. I just don't think all resonance is "bad" or no resonance is "good". Resonance is more complicated than saying the bass has a resonate frequency of 440hz so A notes have less sustain.

 

[BBQisgood]

Language evolves. Oftentimes, the meaning of a word evolved anyway to be the "correct" meaning that people are arguing about. It's stupid to argue too much about how a word is using if it's okay and everyone understands what is meant in the context of the discussion that is taking place.

my point exactly.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

a much more complicated discussion than "resonance is bad"

Contrary to your sarcastic assertion that I'm not reading & just insisting everyone agree with me for no reason:

I didn't state all resonance is bad, my initial observation is that people are using the term incorrectly.
Some resonance can't be avoided, but it's definitely bad when it causes dead-spots.

A vibrating instrument isn't always resonating, but apparently folks think that vibration = resonance

I don't need everyone to agree with me, but so far the count is me: 22, you: 2

You are confusing electronic resonance with acoustic resonance.

From your previous post, I think you were confusing it, a resonance in the electric instrument is going to cause a dip, not a spike:

resonance is good as long as it doesn't spike noticeably

Ahem.

I'm not sure if that's an agreement or a denial, so I will explain.
Let's use Metric units as an example.
mg = milligrams
mcg = micrograms
Get it wrong & someone could die. Not Physics, but definitely adjacent, since a Physicist will use units of measure that have to be accurate.

I just don't think all resonance is "bad" or no resonance is "good".

If it resonates too much, you get dead-spots, which was my point in the opening-post.
People are using the term incorrectly. They don't want a LOT of resonance in an electric instrument.

 

[Polkatronixx]

I'm not sure if that's an agreement or a denial, so I will explain.
Let's use Metric units as an example.
mg = milligrams
mcg = micrograms
Get it wrong & someone could die. Not Physics, but definitely adjacent, since a Physicist will use units of measure that have to be accurate.

But if someone tells me, "that bass weighs a ton", no one is going to die.

 

[James Collins]

Contrary to your sarcastic assertion that I'm not reading & just insisting everyone agree with me for no reason:

I didn't state all resonance is bad, my initial observation is that people are using the term incorrectly.
Some resonance can't be avoided, but it's definitely bad when it causes dead-spots.

A vibrating instrument isn't always resonating, but apparently folks think that vibration = resonance

I don't need everyone to agree with me, but so far the count is me: 22, you: 2




From your previous post, I think you were confusing it, a resonance in the electric instrument is going to cause a dip, not a spike:





I'm not sure if that's an agreement or a denial, so I will explain.
Let's use Metric units as an example.
mg = milligrams
mcg = micrograms
Get it wrong & someone could die. Not Physics, but definitely adjacent, since a Physicist will use units of measure that have to be accurate.

Micrograms is μg.

Resonate has multiple definitions. That may be the problem.

English also changes with time and is not a fixed language.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

drug manufacturers are using MCG on the bottles, you're just grasping at something to argue about now

But if someone tells me, "that bass weighs a ton", no one is going to die.

If it really did, someone could die!

 

[BBQisgood]

Micrograms is μg.

Resonate has multiple definitions. That may be the problem.

English also changes with time and is not a fixed language.

mcg in medicine, pharmacy and SOME chemical applications. Yet another example of “it’s ok to have more than one way to say something.”

 

[Polkatronixx]

drug manufacturers are using MCG on the bottles, you're just grasping at something to argue about now



If it really did, someone could die!

My back died just thinking about it.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

ok to have more than one way to say something

People are going to 'say' microgram in both cases, they're not going to 'say', "That Greek character that looks a U with a tail" Grams.

 

[bobyoung53]

@-Asdfgh- has hit the nail squarely on the head. So have several others, @mambo4 and @Koshchei included.

It is not useful pick at people by using semantics (and pedantry) to show that they are “wrong” and others are “right”.

None of this is terribly complicated. Metal strings move and vibrate. If their frequency is absorbed by the wood -usually the NECK- or their energy lost to other imperfections, then the amplitude of that vibration is reduced and less current is induced in the pickups. If any component tends to resonate at a frequency played by the instrument, then that frequency will “sound” quieter.

People use “resonant” to describe what they hear and feel. Nothing wrong with that.

And guess what? Without vibration, resonance is next to meaningless.

Furthermore, each resonant peak in each instrument will influence the “voice” of that instrument. This isn’t a bad thing.

Resonant FREQUENCY should really be used here in this thread because people are confusing a resonant body with the resonant frequency of the body or parts of the body, the resonant frequency is what sucks the energy out of the particular note (s), any resonant peak in a bass will create a dead spot if it is within the range of and is exactly on or close to a note of the bass, most people don't like this and most bass manufacturers are trying very hard to eliminate resonant peaks.

 

[bobyoung53]

This is unfortunately how people feel about it, even when it's pointed out that it's not the correct use of the word.
The more time I spend with humans, the more I don't understand why most of them just don't care. I thought it was a thing in the culture when I lived in Asia, but it's not there, it's worldwide.
However, in North America people will fight you over their own 'entitlement' to remain ignorant.

100%, SOME people here are PROUD of their ignorance and will fight to the death to have the right to be ignorant, take masks for example and no this is not a political opinion it's medical opinion, I'm a retired RN, VERY strange trait to me.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

SOME people here are PROUD of their ignorance and will fight to the death to have the right to be ignorant

It was a shock to me when I returned from Asia. In Thailand you can point out an error to a Thai person & they might correct it or they might ignore you, but they never get violently angry about it.

 

[bobyoung53]

It was a shock to me when I returned from Asia. In Thailand you can point out an error to a Thai person & they might correct it or they might ignore you, but they never get violently angry about it.

I really like to think that it was a latent thing here that got exacerbated recently and will hopefully go back where it came from soon although probably not.

 

[micguy]

I'm not sure if that's an agreement or a denial, so I will explain.
Let's use Metric units as an example.
mg = milligrams
mcg = micrograms
Get it wrong & someone could die. Not Physics, but definitely adjacent, since a Physicist will use units of measure that have to be accurate.

My "ahem" is because you pretty much said all Physics is pedantic. Physics is Science, discovery, wonder - figuring out how the universe really works. Isaac Newton came up with a description of gravity that worked for about 250 years - it was kinda right, but not completely. Einstein figured out gravity to the next level - so far, for 100 years, it's help up, but 250? We won't know for a while. And he figured out relativity - both special and general - how things work in gravitational fields and at high speeds. At the same time, Einstein was dead wrong about Quantum Physics. The ideas of dark matter and dark energy - most of what the universe is made of, we don't have a clue what it's like - all we know is that there's something we really don't understand out there. Figuring that out is Science. We'l have many bad theories and may failed experiments about what all that stuff is before we figure it out; noone will be hurt by that.

What you're talking about is Engineering - when people use things learned from Science to make things that interact with people. That's where getting things right the first time sometimes matters greatly. Bridge design? Yep The application of relativity in the design of the GPS system (which was made to drop bombs on the people we don't like)? Absolutely. The guys at Nasa who missed Mars because of a conversion error? Embarrassingly, yes as well - Engineering is (at times) much more pedantic.

 

[Turnaround]

Electronics Resonance has the spike at the resonant-peak, that's what you were describing earlier.
I'm not confused, but I am tired.

So are we talking about the body resonance or the electrical circuit resonant peak? In the case of the body "resonance" it is a consequence of the vibration that's exciting it. Electrical "resonance" has nothing to do with the physical vibration. Your typical "dead spot" is caused by physical resonance.