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NA SAYERS

#122
Coolhandjjl said:
Here wtheiTwo mis-matched cabs cannot put out exactly the same output of SPL across the desired frequency spectrum. (If they did, they would not be mis-matched at all, they would be matching!) One will be stronger, the other weaker.

Here's a simple example:
Cab X has an average SPL across the measured range of 100 dB.
Cab Y has an average SPL across the measured range of 100-n dB. (n being the difference from Cab X)
So a stack of Cab X + Cab Y is 100dB + 100-n dB = 103-n dB (remember, we are dealing with logarithms)
But a stack of Cab X + Cab X is 100dB + 100dB = 103dB.
103dB > 103-n dB!
Click to expand...
In my case i got as much info on bolth cabs as i could, so there specs, are very close, the upper cab 210 has a spl one point lower than the bottom, it all works nice together i can hear bolth cabs, and they complament each outher nicely, and together the tone and volume is better than alone, mached or not they kik ass
 
#123
Zigman said:
In my case i got as much info on bolth cabs as i could, so there specs, are very close, the upper cab 210 has a spl one point lower than the bottom, it all works nice together i can hear bolth cabs, and they complament each outher nicely, and together the tone and volume is better than alone, mached or not they kik ass
Click to expand...
You can go back as long as 12 years or so and see many posts from BFM that consistently said that almost any two speakers together will work better than either alone, so your experience is hardly a revelation. No one who knows what they're talking about has ever said otherwise. The only thing they've said is that the result of mixing is unpredictable. This dead horse was sufficiently beaten many years ago, digging it up again to give it a few more whacks served no purpose.
 
#124
Zigman said:
In my case i got as much info on bolth cabs as i could, so there specs, are very close, the upper cab 210 has a spl one point lower than the bottom, it all works nice together i can hear bolth cabs, and they complament each outher nicely, and together the tone and volume is better than alone, mached or not they kik ass
Click to expand...
You got something you like... good for you man.
 
#126
Zigman said:
Dude allmost everything on TB has ben talked about befor, you dont have to reply if u dont want to relax
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you kicked off with the thread title of Naysayers. You can't complain about being corrected. Your experience is a mere annecdote of one opinion of one combination.

Being more kickarse than a single cab is meaningless. The worst combination that isn't a total misplace is still more kickarse.
 
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#131
Coolhandjjl said:
Here's a simple example:
Cab X has an average SPL across the measured range of 100 dB.
Cab Y has an average SPL across the measured range of 100-n dB. (n being the difference from Cab X)
So a stack of Cab X + Cab Y is 100dB + 100-n dB = 103-n dB (remember, we are dealing with logarithms)
But a stack of Cab X + Cab X is 100dB + 100dB = 103dB.
103dB > 103-n dB!
Click to expand...

Let me correct this math a little bit.

cab x: 100 dB
cab y: 100-n dB

cab x + cab y = 100 dB + 100-n dB = 103 dB - k dB
k <> n

n: -3dB

100 dB + 97 db = 101.7 dB

k: -1.3 dB

-1.3dB <> -3dB

Although the difference of -3dB lets assume cab x drowns out cab y, the total SPL of both cabs lacks only little -1.3dB SPL versus "matching" total SPL.
 
#132
ThisBass said:
Let me correct this math a little bit.
Click to expand...
Let me correct your math a little bit. Using two identical cabs wired parallel the increase in sensitivity and maximum SPL is 6dB, with no change in frequency response. Using two different cabs there's no simple calculation that can predict the outcome. You may end up with scotch and soda, you may end up with scotch and vinegar. Rather than roll the dice with the possible outcome I'd take a double shot of scotch. :)
 
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#133
Rick James said:
Let me correct your math a little bit. Using two identical cabs wired parallel the increase in sensitivity and maximum SPL is 6dB, with no change in frequency response. Using two different cabs there's no simple calculation that can predict the outcome. You may end up with scotch and soda, you may end up with scotch and vinegar. Rather than roll the dice with the possible outcome I'd take a double shot of scotch. :)
Click to expand...

The increase in sensitivity is +3 dB cause sensitivity is referenced to 1 watt system input power.
The maximum SPL was + 6dB if the amplifier could push two times the power the amplifier can push into a single cab.
Most of all amplifiers can't double max output power into 1/2 impedance respectively can't double the max output power into 4 Ohm versus 8 Ohm load.

In acoustic science the math for adding different (incoherent) signals is quite easy cause the math doesn't ask for matching response curves yet works fine in applied science.
 
#136
Two matched cabs with:
A tube head, +3dB.
A ss head, usually +5~6dB.
The TerrorBass 1000 is 900 @ 8 ohms and 1000 @ 4 ohms, so +3dB is about it.
The Demeter VTBPM800D is 500 @ 8 ohms and 800 @ 4 ohms, so +5dB there.

These are theoretical gains. LF waves (below approx 500Hz) will couple on your full stack and have baffle step compensation going on, so expect more reinforcement in those frequencies when adding the other cab as well.
 
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#137
I've got two old PV 4X10's...old ones. (One was owned by Rudy Sarzo, purchased in San Diego but that's another story). When I only had one, I disliked it. The speakers are not robust enough and it farted out easily.

I have an 18" Black Widow in the bottom section of an 1810. (I cut the two 10 section off.)

When I plg the 18 in along with the 4X10, the sound is great. The 18 adds punch in the low end the 10's don't.

I tried running both full range, and then with a big 125Hz passive crossover I built. It sounds great either way, but slightly better full range.
 
#138
Steve Dallman said:
I tried running both full range, and then with a big 125Hz passive crossover I built. It sounds great either way, but slightly better full range.
Click to expand...
That's to be expected, because crossing at 125 hz you lose at least 60 hz out of the 410. For that matter chances are the 18 doesn't go much lower than the 410, if at all, as it's Fs is 40Hz. But it might seem that way running it alone, because it won't go as high in the mids, and that will make the lows sound more prominent compared to the 410.
 
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#139
I would like to thank you all for taking part in this thred,its ben intertaining, and,some good iinformation was also thrown in there. I truly can see that bass players are a breed all there own, but i gess the whole mixed cab thing just boiles down to what the player is hearing with his own ears, and likes what hé or she hears. Keep on rocking dudes
 
#140
Coolhandjjl said:
Two matched cabs with:
A tube head, +3dB.
A ss head, usually +5~6dB.
The TerrorBass 1000 is 900 @ 8 ohms and 1000 @ 4 ohms, so +3dB is about it.
The Demeter VTBPM800D is 500 @ 8 ohms and 800 @ 4 ohms, so +5dB there.

These are theoretical gains. LF waves (below approx 500Hz) will couple on your full stack and have baffle step compensation going on, so expect more reinforcement in those frequencies when adding the other cab as well.
Click to expand...
except one cab might only be able to use 400w by itself before compressing heavily, back to 6dB by doubling up cabs.
 

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