Clearly, Tunaman must be correct about the superiority of the Shuttlemax over everything else, because, clearly, nothing is better than a Fender..... 
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NAD! SVT7 Pro (also comparing it to my Streamliner 900)
- Thread starter johnk_10
- Start date
This thread was started to compare the SVT7 Pro to the Streamliner 900 but having both GB amps, I'd be interested in a comparison of the SVT7 Pro vs Shuttle Max 9.2. (No fanboi rant just a rational A/B tonal comparison). It sounds like the SVT7 Pro might sit somewhere between the two GB amps but have its own (Ampeg) voice. Would that be too much of a derail at this point?
I don't think so. More importantly, I suspect that you are right about your placement of the -7 Pro's tone. I haven't heard the x.2 series amps in person, but owned a STM900, and have heard tones on the 'net from the x.2s, and I would place it in the middle, too.
All right, I talked to Musician's Friend, and I have to say, so far I'm quite impressed with their customer service. For a defective unit, they will do an refund/exchange at no cost to me. If I want to return the unit because I just don't like it, I pay return shipping. They suggested I call Ampeg/Loud and talk to them about the volume concerns so I'll do that on Monday and then do an exchange. I'm still mulling over whether I want to get another 7 Pro or try something else (most likely an MB800).
In the meantime, I did some testing at home and got some interesting results. First I put in some really good earplugs (33 dB cut) and then I cranked the 7 Pro and I could not make it fail. I played the same songs at the same volume level that I did last night.
I still think that there's probably something wrong with the amp, but could this have been a voltage issue, as in bad power at the club?
Then, I did the scary test of turning the master all the way up and playing. This is with the preamp up as high as I could go without distorting. I found that the master volume control on the 7 Pro does indeed go up along its whole range.
Then I tried the same thing with the Streamliner 900. Surprise! Most of the change happens before noon. I was not expecting that. When both amps are turned all the way up, they do sound roughly equal in volume. The Streamliner sounds MUCH more solid but I could see the 7 Pro maybe cutting through more.
Maybe part of my "not as loud as I wanted" reaction was because I'm playing through a relatively inefficient 8 ohm cabinet (fEARful 15/6), also because I like a lot of really strong clean bass, which the SL excells at producing.
In the meantime, I did some testing at home and got some interesting results. First I put in some really good earplugs (33 dB cut) and then I cranked the 7 Pro and I could not make it fail. I played the same songs at the same volume level that I did last night.
I still think that there's probably something wrong with the amp, but could this have been a voltage issue, as in bad power at the club?Then, I did the scary test of turning the master all the way up and playing. This is with the preamp up as high as I could go without distorting. I found that the master volume control on the 7 Pro does indeed go up along its whole range.
Then I tried the same thing with the Streamliner 900. Surprise! Most of the change happens before noon. I was not expecting that. When both amps are turned all the way up, they do sound roughly equal in volume. The Streamliner sounds MUCH more solid but I could see the 7 Pro maybe cutting through more.
Maybe part of my "not as loud as I wanted" reaction was because I'm playing through a relatively inefficient 8 ohm cabinet (fEARful 15/6), also because I like a lot of really strong clean bass, which the SL excells at producing.
Keep testing Smeet, I've seen voltage issues do crazy things but you want to have a reliable piece of gear so why not exchange it
As for my Shuttlemax comments. Didn't mean any hate, just making a point that the Streamliner isn't really an amp I'd have as my only amp. In fact if I had to choose only 1 amp, Streamliner or SVT7pro. I'd probably go with the Ampeg. What I'm saying is its not a fair fight, different goals, I'd like to see a comparison vs the Shuttlemax 9.2.
Thats it man
As for my Shuttlemax comments. Didn't mean any hate, just making a point that the Streamliner isn't really an amp I'd have as my only amp. In fact if I had to choose only 1 amp, Streamliner or SVT7pro. I'd probably go with the Ampeg. What I'm saying is its not a fair fight, different goals, I'd like to see a comparison vs the Shuttlemax 9.2.
Thats it man
Having caused a -7 Pro to self destruct (let the magic smoke out of a Rev. A), and run another right to the very edge, and having had several conversations with Tom Bowlus about the -7 Pro, I can state reasonably categorically that too much or too little line voltage will indeed cause the -7 Pro to do some fairly strange things, such as cutting out. This is a designed protection to keep the amp from self-destructing under bad line voltage conditions, and is, IMO, a very good thing. I'd rather have an amp cut out for a few moments than have to replace it because the venue can't supply steady, clean power.
+1 Better to have the amp protect itself but voltage issues make for a long frustrating night.
Smeet, hope to see you get this amp thing settled shortly.
I haven't had the chance to try out the SVT7 Pro yet but one of the things I'm most curious about is the attack and feel of the notes (round vs edge, heft, bloom, etc). You can only eq so much. Then the voicing of the amp comes into play. I keep it simple and don't run effects so the matchup between bass, amp, and cab and how you use your hands is it. I love the heft and solid tone of the STM900 with the right cab and know that slightly drier crisper tone of the SM9.2. As much as I enjoy them both it would be nice to try something in between with a good rock voice. Sound like the SVT7 Pro? The compressor is also a nice touch.
Smeet, hope to see you get this amp thing settled shortly.
I haven't had the chance to try out the SVT7 Pro yet but one of the things I'm most curious about is the attack and feel of the notes (round vs edge, heft, bloom, etc). You can only eq so much. Then the voicing of the amp comes into play. I keep it simple and don't run effects so the matchup between bass, amp, and cab and how you use your hands is it. I love the heft and solid tone of the STM900 with the right cab and know that slightly drier crisper tone of the SM9.2. As much as I enjoy them both it would be nice to try something in between with a good rock voice. Sound like the SVT7 Pro? The compressor is also a nice touch.
The 7 is a much more "right up the gut" kind of amp. Sounds good with very little tweaking (exact opposite of the 900 imho). It just sounds warm, thick, present, and articulate (live). With the GB you really gotta get into the relationships of all the eq settings and figure out how to deal with the scooped mids and boosted lows. Killer amp but takes a lot of work to be super versatile. The 7pro is just super standard, punch you in the gut, old school tone, and powerful. Loud as I can ever gig professionally, pretty damn versatile, and light and small.
I agree if that is in fact what was happening. As I said, it was not a momentary cut out. The amp stayed off with no lights until I powered it down for a bit and then turned it back on. Does that sound like protection?
Since I can't get it to fail at home, I'm a bit puzzled as to what I should do. If the unit is bad, I want to exchange it. If its not, I either want to keep it, or get something different, since that's not the way I think a functioning amp should work.
As I play the amp more, I really do like its voice. It has a throaty middy rock thing that is not at all pristine sounding. The SL900 is tubey, but also much more pristine and clean in a way. I haven't tried the 9.2, but the 7 Pro seems like a very nice complement to the Streamliner. If it works, that is. I hate the thought of needing to have two amps running at all gigs just in case I need to swap mid-song.
Reliability is the key to feeling confident and playing well IMO, I would not want to be standing in front of an amp that may or may not cut-out .
There may be a lot of factors that cause the cutting out, I have a PF500 which has been 100% perfect but others have had faults, luck of the draw or using it too hard perhaps ?
The trouble with the internet is that you can read too much and become paranoid about such things, get up with a small headache one morning, read about headaches online and you can convince yourself you have a brain tumour !!!
There may be a lot of factors that cause the cutting out, I have a PF500 which has been 100% perfect but others have had faults, luck of the draw or using it too hard perhaps ?
The trouble with the internet is that you can read too much and become paranoid about such things, get up with a small headache one morning, read about headaches online and you can convince yourself you have a brain tumour !!!
+1.
like some have said, I would rather an amp cut out the blow out.
But there are plenty of other reliable option out there. I would not want to take the gamble with Ampegs 7 pro. Cutting out at a gig because they have not worked out how to make the protection circuitry work in an unstable power supply environment is unacceptable IMO
I "took the gamble". Just made sure was a rev c & had warranty.
Been gambling since & am beating the bank.
Been 100% reliable & I can't see it doing any different. Time will tell I guess, but I ain't gonna worry about it. A stated above, one can let internet goss give you the jip!
Been gambling since & am beating the bank.
Been 100% reliable & I can't see it doing any different. Time will tell I guess, but I ain't gonna worry about it. A stated above, one can let internet goss give you the jip!
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,638
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
IME, there aren't alot of lightweight amps manufactured today that will work properly in environments that supply questionable power quality, so IMO, the fact that many of them have circuits that protect themselves is a good thing.
Honestly, I don't know of any micros that DON'T have some problem when you push them super hard. It is not a mature technology, and there is still much to learn about their behavior. Ampeg is certainly not alone in this regard, either.
Bottom line is they're just not made to be pushed super hard. None of them. I know of a couple major manufacturers that don't even want to put a micro out because of it, but they're losing a large amount of market share to so many folks who think a 5 lb amp is insane when 3 lb amps exist.
People also have very unrealistic expectations of performance. They expect the $200 micros to perform at the exact same level as the $2000 tube and SS amps. Well a Mini Cooper won't haul as much as an F150, either. Sure, you have to place part of the blame on the manufacturers for not going out of their way to be particularly informative, but I think most reasonable people would see two 500w amps, one that weighs 30 lbs and costs $1500 and one that weighs 3 lbs and costs $300, and ask themselves, "What's the catch?"
So just like your big iron SS amps have limitations that we all had to learn to work around when they became more prominent after 30 years of nothing but tube amps, that's the stage we're going through with micros now. And you can complain about it as much as you want, but your only choices are learn to live with their limitations or go back to the heavier stuff.
Bottom line is they're just not made to be pushed super hard. None of them. I know of a couple major manufacturers that don't even want to put a micro out because of it, but they're losing a large amount of market share to so many folks who think a 5 lb amp is insane when 3 lb amps exist.
People also have very unrealistic expectations of performance. They expect the $200 micros to perform at the exact same level as the $2000 tube and SS amps. Well a Mini Cooper won't haul as much as an F150, either. Sure, you have to place part of the blame on the manufacturers for not going out of their way to be particularly informative, but I think most reasonable people would see two 500w amps, one that weighs 30 lbs and costs $1500 and one that weighs 3 lbs and costs $300, and ask themselves, "What's the catch?"
So just like your big iron SS amps have limitations that we all had to learn to work around when they became more prominent after 30 years of nothing but tube amps, that's the stage we're going through with micros now. And you can complain about it as much as you want, but your only choices are learn to live with their limitations or go back to the heavier stuff.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,638
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
From what I understand, SMPS and Class D technologies are already decades old. I'm not sure it is technology itself or merely the particular implementation that is at issue here. QSC, Crown, Peavey, etc... have had Class D in the pro-audio field for a long time now. Has long-term reliability been more of a problem for these amps than Class AB?
I'm not sure I agree. I've pushed the heck out of my TH500 on 8 and 4 ohm loads without issue on hot days and in bars with somewhat questionable power. It's performed just as well as my Eden WT400 ever did, and gets louder with just as much "solidity" and "weight to the notes" with less risk of releasing the magic smoke due to improper gain staging or use of EQ.
While we'd love for a $1500, 20-lb. amp to be three times better and more reliable than a $600, 5-lb. amp, the fact is that cost and weight are not always 100% indicative of quality of manufacture, quality of design, and/or quality control. Indeed, many modern lightweight amps are built better than some of the amps in their effective price bracket were 10, 25, or 50 years ago.
There are other concerns at work, too. With the lightweight amp craze comes the lightweight cab craze, which means that cabs are often smaller and less efficient. Put an SVT atop an 8x10 and you don't have to push it too hard to get LOUD. Put a 500w micro atop an 8 ohm 2x10 and suddenly you're pushing both amp and cab much harder to get the volume you want.
