Nashville Number System: Is that all it is?

[INTP]

So the nashville system is more or less the same as the standard roman numerals system except that it uses arabic numerals?

I personally think that calling NNS the Nashville Number System implies more simplicity than it encompasses. I really try to avoid semantic pedantry, but I think of it as the Nashville Notation System, since it includes a way of notating the form of a song, the overall harmonic structure, ad hoc breaks and deviations from the starting patterns, methods for notating signature riffs, methods for indicating specific rhythms, etc. I have no interest in trying to rename it, I'm just saying that the naming can affect how we think about things.

IOW, when you look at a NNS chart before you've learned the system, you recognize a single part of it, which is the Arabic numerals that you learned in kindergarten. But just because that's all you see and comprehend, that doesn't mean that is all that is being communicated.

I cannot think of a way for a person to understand all the things that NNS encompasses without learning NNS. I know that sounds silly to state it that way, but some posters in this thread seem to be saying something along the lines of, "I cannot be bothered to learn NNS until I know what it is". My only response is that if you want to know what it is, it's not that hard to learn.

This assumes you have a moderate understanding of harmonic theory, of course.

 

[gard0300]

It's just a cool name for a pretty basic concept. IMO.

 

[b/o 402]

I did a typo on what I called the rhythm changes pattern ... it's "3 - 6 - 2 - 5" rather than the "3 - 6 - 3 - 5" I typed in my initial post on this subject ... just like the B section on the Martha & the Vandellas classic "Dancing in the Street".

True, that's the chorus progression. But whenever I've heard it used, which is normally as a straightforward intro vamp, they're referring to the verse progression.

 

[morgan138]

So it's called the Nashville Number System because a lot of session guys in Nashville used it and we're upset that it's called "Nashville" and the name stuck?

Yeah, exactly. It didn't get that name because someone carefully surveyed all music notation systems and decided that this one was unique to Nashville, TN -- it's just that reading about it on wikipedia in 2017 gives it that encyclopedic vibe.

 

[mambo4]

If this image is indicative of NN as used in studios, It is more than simply replacing roman numerals with arabic.

I've well versed in "standard" music theory and this image throws me a few curve balls:

• what do numbers in diamond represent?
• what do double and triple dots over numbers represent?
• how are fractions to be interpreted?
• what do underlined numbers indicate?

So, clearly NN is not "just" arabic numerals for chord changes

 

[MultiScaleMale]

If anyone has an iPad, check out 1Chart. You can make really nice looking NNS / chord charts.

 

[Plutonium244]

My only problem with SOME jazz player is the think they and their music is superior to everything else and the insist on telling you so.

I play in a band that plays instrumental jazz-blues, so we are not "straight-ahead" jazz. We work a lot despite being a different animal than almost all other bands in the area. There are more than a couple of straight-ahead jazz guys that come to our gigs, sit in the back, scowl, and wonder "these guys aren't real jazz, why are they gigging often and I, jazz giant, am at home or sitting here wondering how these paltroons are getting all the gigs?"

I bought a semi-wrecked upright and took it to a bass shop for work. He's a jazz guy too. I told him I was from a neighboring town, he said "well, good your not from here, nobody can getting a paying gig here." I told him almost all my gigs were in his town. He then wore that hang-dog jazz-guy look, like "I am so much better than him, I play real jazz, I have upright chops, why aren't I getting gigs?"

So yeah, while I admire jazz, find it stimulating to play, and play a concoction of it (but with a little more soul), the purist jazz guys are sometimes a bit arrogant, and yet sometimes they do get the cognitive dissonance when they, the presumably superior musicians, are not fairing as well as non-purist jazz people who perhaps emote better and put more shoulder into it in a way that connects better with many. I know it bothers them (some of them).

 

[BassAndReeds]

If this image is indicative of NN as used in studios, It is more than simply replacing roman numerals with arabic.

I've well versed in "standard" music theory and this image throws me a few curve balls:

• what do numbers in diamond represent?
• what do double and triple dots over numbers represent?
• how are fractions to be interpreted?
• what do underlined numbers indicate?

So, clearly NN is not "just" arabic numerals for chord changes

Diamonds are holds on a chord. (But I don't think it's an actual fermata. Still played in time)
Dots equate beats. 3 dots = 3 beats/quaters/quavers(England???)
Fractions are inversions. 5/7 = 5 chord with 7 in the bass
Underline indicates a full measure. Numbers in the underline are split equally, unless dots appear above the number

 

[mambo4]

Diamonds are holds on a chord. (But I don't think it's an actual fermata. Still played in time)
Dots equate beats. 3 dots = 3 beats/quaters/quavers(England???)
Fractions are inversions. 5/7 = 5 chord with 7 in the bass
Underline indicates a full measure. Numbers in the underline are split equally, unless dots appear above the number

thanks! are there other symbols NN uses?

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

I play in a band that plays instrumental jazz-blues, so we are not "straight-ahead" jazz. We work a lot despite being a different animal than almost all other bands in the area. There are more than a couple of straight-ahead jazz guys that come to our gigs, sit in the back, scowl, and wonder "these guys aren't real jazz, why are they gigging often and I, jazz giant, am at home or sitting here wondering how these paltroons are getting all the gigs?"

I bought a semi-wrecked upright and took it to a bass shop for work. He's a jazz guy too. I told him I was from a neighboring town, he said "well, good your not from here, nobody can getting a paying gig here." I told him almost all my gigs were in his town. He then wore that hang-dog jazz-guy look, like "I am so much better than him, I play real jazz, I have upright chops, why aren't I getting gigs?"

So yeah, while I admire jazz, find it stimulating to play, and play a concoction of it (but with a little more soul), the purist jazz guys are sometimes a bit arrogant, and yet sometimes they do get the cognitive dissonance when they, the presumably superior musicians, are not fairing as well as non-purist jazz people who perhaps emote better and put more shoulder into it in a way that connects better with many. I know it bothers them (some of them).

A jazz musician plays thousands of notes for hundreds of people.
A rock musician plays hundreds of notes for thousands of people.

I understand their angst, but the reason seems to escape most of them. Jazz is a higher art form, just like fine art. The problem is, to appreciate it takes some knowledge of the art form.
My wife studied art and is very good at it. We look at the same painting and I see a pretty picture. She goes into color balance, brush stroke technique, composition, etc.

 

[INTP]

thanks! are there other symbols NN uses?

Yes. The best reference I've seen for learning NNS is Chas Williams's book:
::The Nashville Number System

 

[Kevorargh]

When I play a local Open Mic Note (known as Hoot Nite!), the guy in charge, a very good country/rock player, uses NNS and that's how we learn songs. He says,"Do you know (insert old country song here)?", I say "No", he throws some numbers at me and away we go. Simple and effective.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Diamonds are holds on a chord. (But I don't think it's an actual fermata. Still played in time)
Dots equate beats. 3 dots = 3 beats/quaters/quavers(England???)
Fractions are inversions. 5/7 = 5 chord with 7 in the bass
Underline indicates a full measure. Numbers in the underline are split equally, unless dots appear above the number

I can see that it would confuse the hell out of me for while since I'm used to figured bass and how chords are represented in jazz

 

[Clef_de_fa]

A jazz musician plays thousands of notes for hundreds of people.
A rock musician plays hundreds of notes for thousands of people.

I understand their angst, but the reason seems to escape most of them. Jazz is a higher art form, just like fine art. The problem is, to appreciate it takes some knowledge of the art form.
My wife studied art and is very good at it. We look at the same painting and I see a pretty picture. She goes into color balance, brush stroke technique, composition, etc.

Let's not forget that jazz was the popular music not too long ago ... but since the bar got lower and lower. It isn't that hard to understand but I guess the lack of lyric and sang like all the b***ches sang today and of course the 10min solo section kill the people with short attention span.

 

[mambo4]

off topic but IMHO Jazz lost its popular connection when the dancing stopped.

 

[BassAndReeds]

off topic but IMHO Jazz lost its popular connection when the dancing stopped.

Agreed 100%. If I had a "jazz" band today, I would cater to Ballroom Dancers.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Let's not forget that jazz was the popular music not too long ago ... but since the bar got lower and lower. It isn't that hard to understand but I guess the lack of lyric and sang like all the b***ches sang today and of course the 10min solo section kill the people with short attention span.

When was "to long ago"? Last I remember jazz being popular was the 1950s and it was already waning then.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

There are a ton of YouTube vids on the Nashville Number System.

Not a lot of actual how-to stuff but Dave Pomeroy talks about why it's used and how it came about.


A bouncing ball chart from Chas Williams whose book has already been recommended.


Part one of an hour long explanation/demonstration.

 

[Hahaha]

NNS makes even more sense with a guitar and a capo using the CAGED chords. You don't even need to think of chords - a 1 is a C shape, 4 is an F shape, etc.

You don't need a capo to use CAGED in this manner. All of the chord forms can be played up and down the neck in any key simply by fingering the chords. Most can be played in their full form, others as partials. I do fill-in work as a guitarist with a few country bands and by using CAGED, along with knowing all the interval locations within each CAGED form I can play through any chord progression in any location on the neck without having to move my hand to a different position. It's real effective, and very helpful if you're reading a chart and don't want to look away.

 

[BassAndReeds]

There are a ton of YouTube vids on the Nashville Number System.

Not a lot of actual how-to stuff but Dave Pomeroy talks about why it's used and how it came about.


A bouncing ball chart from Chas Williams whose book has already been recommended.


Part one of an hour long explanation/demonstration.

I love how Dave Pomeroy intros his Nashville Number System video with Jazz. Brilliant.