Nashville Number System: Is that all it is?

[BassAndReeds]

I don't think you mean any ill will, but you got to remember as soon as you say your a jazz player, you start to sound a bit pompous. That would be the universal you, btw.

I agree. Jazz and the jazz scene does have a slight air about it. For that reason, and the reason that it hasn't lead to anything lucrative for me, is why I don't play jazz anymore. I was never really talented at it anyhow, probably why I didn't get paid. I play theater and cover gigs now. And am just as happy and make decent money there.

 

[BusyFingers]

Question: How do you say a Roman numeral so people know you're talking about a Roman numeral?

 

[guy n. cognito]

Question: How do you say a Roman numeral so people know you're talking about a Roman numeral?

In Latin......

 

[BusyFingers]

In Latin......

Would pig-latin suffice in a pinch?

 

[MattB88]

Being a session player in Nashville I can confirm yes there are many charts as simple as was posted on the previous page but also very complex ones as well and we use all of the markings and names from traditional music reading as well such as Fermat a's, rubato, codas, al fines, etc.

 

[JRA]

you got to remember as soon as you say your a jazz player, you start to sound a bit pompous. That would be the universal you, btw.

really? maybe it's because jazz cats are overpaid!

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

really? maybe it's because jazz cats are overpaid!

I don't know what they are paid, but they often denigrate those who don't play jazz as if you aren't really a musician unless you play jazz. And that jazz is the only valid music for the intellectual elite because music other than jazz is just for knuckle dragging buffoons.
I like listening to some jazz, but a lot of it is boring and seems to be more oriented toward showing off technical facility than actually making music.
Hope you make all the money you want. But, lets look at it this way:
Billy Gibbons is woth $45 million, Victor Wooten is worth $5 million.

 

[BusyFingers]

Ok, guys, this song follows the ooh-tay, I've-fay, or-fay...

 

[BassAndReeds]

Being a session player in Nashville I can confirm yes there are many charts as simple as was posted on the previous page but also very complex ones as well and we use all of the markings and names from traditional music reading as well such as Fermat a's, rubato, codas, al fines, etc.

Not to beat a dead horse, but do you know why there would be a new name for old music notation? Fermata, Coda, Rubato, all terms used for centuries. And the numbers are simply a change in font. It seems so self separating.

This kind of relates to a CL post for a band, btw. Where a requirement for the band is knowing the "Nashville Number System". Well, that's not taught up here (Philly), but it's frankly not difficult to pick up in 2 minutes. I don't know if this band knows how easy this system is, and I don't understand why they would limit their musician choice over something so simple.

 

[MattB88]

Not to beat a dead horse, but do you know why there would be a new name for old music notation? Fermata, Coda, Rubato, all terms used for centuries. And the numbers are simply a change in font. It seems so self separating.

This kind of relates to a CL post for a band, btw. Where a requirement for the band is knowing the "Nashville Number System". Well, that's not taught up here (Philly), but it's frankly not difficult to pick up in 2 minutes. I don't know if this band knows how easy this system is, and I don't understand why they would limit their musician choice over something so simple.

Well all the old terminology is the same the only reason the number system came about was so the session players could translate keys without re-writing anything during the tracking phase when artists change keys at the last second while laying down a scratch vocal. The whole idea was for it to be exactly that. Simple. I don't know why a band would necessarily make it mandatory to know but it does help us out when we record a typical 5 song session in 3 hour blocks.

 

[BassAndReeds]

I don't know what they are paid, but they often denigrate those who don't play jazz as if you aren't really a musician unless you play jazz. And that jazz is the only valid music for the intellectual elite because music other than jazz is just for knuckle dragging buffoons.
I like listening to some jazz, but a lot of it is boring and seems to be more oriented toward showing off technical facility than actually making music.
Hope you make all the money you want. But, lets look at it this way:
Billy Gibbons is woth $45 million, Victor Wooten is worth $5 million.

At a certain point, if we measure success in dollars, I think we've missed 99% of the substance.

Measuring in Legacy might be a more qualified rule. However, that might be left to much interpretation.

 

[JRA]

I don't know what they are paid, but they often denigrate those who don't play jazz as if you aren't really a musician unless you play jazz. And that jazz is the only valid music for the intellectual elite because music other than jazz is just for knuckle dragging buffoons.
I like listening to some jazz, but a lot of it is boring and seems to be more oriented toward showing off technical facility than actually making music.
Hope you make all the money you want. But, lets look at it this way:
Billy Gibbons is woth $45 million, Victor Wooten is worth $5 million.

sounds like you've had some bad experiences with some jazz folk. sorry to hear. i think egos can be an issue in any genre.

 

[buldog5151bass]

What is the Nashville Numbering System?

It is a system for notating music, developed and used by musicians in Nashville.

Is it similar to the system used in jazz fake books, or probably a dozen others? Yes.

Why the angst? If you were a player there when there was a big studio scene, you had to be comfortable with it - simple as that. No one is claiming it cures cancer...

 

[pbassnut]

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I don't claim to know all the nuances of any kind of "official" Nashville number system and what I use is undoubtedly some kind of bastardized form, but it works well for me. If it doesn't work for you, you're still OK in my book. ;^) I play mostly roots music ... Blues, Soul, R&B, Folk and Country. Rehearsals are few and far between and I'm called upon to wing it to varying degrees more often than not so any kind of short hand song specifications that can be imparted quickly and on the spot are absolute gold to me. For example, with Blues (my bread & butter music genre), I assume a straight up 12 bar unless one or more of the specifications suggests a variant or something different altogether ...

"uptown box shuffle with a quick 4 starting on the 5"
"up tempo jump blues with a 2-5-1 turnaround"
"rhumba with a long 5"
"church changes" (1-6-2-5 pattern)
"rhythm changes" (3-6-2-5 pattern)
"minor 12/8 slow blues with a 5/sharp 5/5 turnaround"
etc, etc, etc

I find that thinking of chord cadences in terms of their relative number in the scale also makes it easier to recognize patterns or fragments of patterns that are already familiar ... "oh, that's just like this other song I know only you do this that or the other thing before or after it". I also find that if I minimize my use of open strings and play by position, it is usually fairly easy to change keys on the fly using the number system (short of switching to E flat, which is always a drag). ;^)

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

At a certain point, if we measure success in dollars, I think we've missed 99% of the substance.

Measuring in Legacy might be a more qualified rule. However, that might be left to much interpretation.

True.
Now, what I will say positive about jazz is that it is usually more complex and take skill to play it well. Most good jazz players are educated in music and have a good understanding for their craft. I will say that many are actually more technically skilled that say rock or country players. But, that also is a generalization.
Music is an art form meant to touch the soul. Fast hands and lots of notes, regardless of genre, don't impress me. Can you make people cry? Can you make them laugh? Can you make them see your vision? Can you make them get up and dance?
Therein lies music. My personal library goes from Beethoven to ZZ Top, so I am not loyal to any genre. I even like to listen to an album of Sousa marches.
My only problem with SOME jazz player is the think they and their music is superior to everything else and the insist on telling you so.

 

[Josh Kneisel]

I'm with the OP. I was like we always do that in jazz why is this considered anything special?

 

[DavC]

i learned it the mid 70's ... switching from classical piano to more jazz studies ..

my books used ... II versus ii .. ? as we know the 2 chord is naturally minor ... and in jazz , i learned all 4 note chords ... I - maj 7 , II - min 7 , etc ... then started over again at college, when taking music theory , learning it Their way .. !?

and some of my bandmates had gone to Berkley and there number system was a little different ... i think everyone adapts it for their own use ... which might make it hard to get used to at first .. ?? that's why we have ears .. !!

 

[HolmeBass]

No, it's totally different. Instead of ii V I, you use 2 5 1. Totally different.

This. Nashville numbers has nothing to do with what you're talking about, which is just normal music theory.

 

[petrus61]

I agree. Jazz and the jazz scene does have a slight air about it. For that reason, and the reason that it hasn't lead to anything lucrative for me, is why I don't play jazz anymore. I was never really talented at it anyhow, probably why I didn't get paid. I play theater and cover gigs now. And am just as happy and make decent money there.

Sounds like how all of my jazz schooled chums wound up. Playing cruise ships and theater gigs with a smattering of low (non) paying jazz gigs thrown in during their down time. But hey, they're working.

 

[HolmeBass]

Nashville number system - Wikipedia

Not the best Wiki ever, but will get you started.