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NBD (Fauxdera content)

#181
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. People who buy Fodera are a select few consdiering all the bass players in the world. All jokes aside, no matter how good Fodera's are, they are very expensive and most of us will never be able to afford one. Having said that, Fodera's are priced such that John Doe the common bass player will not be buying one. On the other side there are many of us who look at Fodera's and other boutique basses and can only wish. There is nothing wrong IMO if the avergae guy on the street wants to buy a decent looking bass cheap copy or not of something that resembles to whatever degree something he can only dream about. This is just my opinion. Look at how many Fender copies there are out there and no one seems to get bothered when another new JB copy is introduced. Lastly, there is no way in hell that this bass pictured can damage the reputation, or sway a buyer from buying a real Fodera. People who buy Fodera's are really into Music and Bass playing and would not Judge a Fodera by what they thought of a cheap copy. IMO it's nothing more than Flattery that China should even attempt to make such a copy. IMO the Chinese copy looks good.
 
#182
I'm glad this thread came up. I was considering buying a chickenbacker, but was having trouble committing. I thought about it, and asked myself why would I want to buy a cheap bass that looked cool, if no guarantees about sound. So I decided on a us model. Now I'm afraid to buy one off of craigslist because of fear I'll get a great looking fake one. I suppose this is the same for all copies. I'll have to study up on the differences. Some are pretty darn close. Does anyone know if GC can certify one as authentic vs a fake?
 
#187
Shakin-Slim said:
There's quite a clear point there, really. There's no way we can really trust the opinion of someone from Fodera in this case. I'm not on one side or the other of this, just saying that the point is kinda obvious.
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Disagree. The Fodera guys sound like stand up people to me and that copy is so far below their standards that they have nothing to fear and no reason to lie.
 
#188
phillybass101 said:
There is nothing wrong IMO if the avergae guy on the street wants to buy a decent looking bass cheap copy or not of something that resembles to whatever degree something he can only dream about. This is just my opinion.

Lastly, there is no way in hell that this bass pictured can damage the reputation, or sway a buyer from buying a real Fodera. People who buy Fodera's are really into Music and Bass playing and would not Judge a Fodera by what they thought of a cheap copy. IMO it's nothing more than Flattery that China should even attempt to make such a copy. IMO the Chinese copy looks good.
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Good points and I respect your opinion but I can't say I agree with your first point. Buying a cheap offshore copy of something that a small business has spent 30+ years fine tuning and working their asses off building/selling is just wrong IMO. Forget about copyright and trademark law (as it doesn't really matter in China), it is just wrong.

I agree with the flattery point you made, but a previous poster mentioned Rolex copies. I have seen a $24,000 real Rolex next to a high end $1000 fake at a jeweller friend's and the similarities are mind boggling. Even Rolex authorized repair centres can have troubles telling them apart initially. There is no way that this doesn't hurt the used Rolex market and the odd new sale must be lost as some buyers may shy away from buying something that looks identical to cheap fakes.

Pretty simple to understand how Fodera's business can be affected IMO...

.... A crappy fake Fodera sells well, then they start making actual good copies at a higher price point (but well below a real Fodera), and then buyers start shying away from the brand in the used market as they don't want to get burned, then the seller of the used Fodera can't sell it and therefore can't afford to buy a new Fodera build and Fodera loses a sale.....
 
#189
Good points made by all, but I think the chances of Fodera losing a sale as a result of some $300 Chinese knock off are about ZERO. The markets have a tremendous gap between them. For most Fodera buyers, a $300 bass isn't even a blip on their radar and vice versa. Most people do their homework when dropping even $1500 on a bass and know what goes into a custom instrument. The likelihood of someone going "Hmmm...I was all set to spend $5000 on a custom bass when this $300 lookalike popped up. I just saved $700! What a deal!" is next to none.
 
#190
petrus61 said:
Good points made by all, but I think the chances of Fodera losing a sale as a result of some $300 Chinese knock off are about ZERO.
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Again, I reference my earlier post about parsing.

Fodera won't be losing a sale, but the obvious fact here is that the Chinese plant stole their design wholesale. Even the wee butterfly on the headstock. Intellectual property theft is like any other theft.

$300 would buy you an number of high quality basses both new and second hand, so why are people defending a poorly built copy that, by OP's own admittance, didn't work out of the box because the electronics were dead?
 
#191
kohntarkosz said:
Again, I reference my earlier post about parsing.

Fodera won't be losing a sale, but the obvious fact here is that the Chinese plant stole their design wholesale. Even the wee butterfly on the headstock. Intellectual property theft is like any other theft.

$300 would buy you an number of high quality basses both new and second hand, so why are people defending a poorly built copy that, by OP's own admittance, didn't work out of the box because the electronics were dead?
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Sorry, I should have mentioned that no, I don't support blatantly ripping off a design right down to the logo. I just don't feel that the argument this hurts sales of real ones holds up. Im firmly against the actions of the knock off artist in this case.
 
#195
I just read through this thread. This is NOT meant as a knock against Fodera or the OP, but I'm curious... Why didn't Fodera, once they were aware they were being "copied", surreptitiously buy one themselves to examine? I just found it strange that they were waiting for the OP to buy one before taking a look. Again, this is NOT meant as a knock against Fodera or the OP.
 
#196
We have seen many of them previously. They are at the NAMM Show every year for all of the World to see. Why would we pay money to buy one? The OP came up with this idea on his own and asked us if we would be interested in seeing the instrument after he bought it. Why not?

Sadly, there is absolutely nothing that we can do to stop it. Intellectual Property is not well protected in China and we have no ability to wage a legal battle on the other side of the world. Despite it being flattering that people feel positively enough about our designs that they get copied, I often wonder how the people that post here would feel if someone ripped off their life's work. It is very easy to have a theoretical discussion about this stuff, but when it is your personal ideas that get ripped off, I don't know, it just doesn't feel right at all...

J

ahc said:
I just read through this thread. This is NOT meant as a knock against Fodera or the OP, but I'm curious... Why didn't Fodera, once they were aware they were being "copied", surreptitiously buy one themselves to examine? I just found it strange that they were waiting for the OP to buy one before taking a look. Again, this is NOT meant as a knock against Fodera or the OP.
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#197
ahc said:
I just read through this thread. This is NOT meant as a knock against Fodera or the OP, but I'm curious... Why didn't Fodera, once they were aware they were being "copied", surreptitiously buy one themselves to examine? I just found it strange that they were waiting for the OP to buy one before taking a look. Again, this is NOT meant as a knock against Fodera or the OP.
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Because they didn't care. They know that it had zero effect on their business. I think that since they had a rep post here, a commitment to do so had to be followed through to do so in the name of good business. These guys have better things to do than worry about a market segment that will never be able to afford their wares in the first place.

The whole thing was a nicety.
 
#199
Just Thumpin' said:
We have seen many of them previously. They are at the NAMM Show every year for all of the World to see. Why would we pay money to buy one? The OP came up with this idea on his own and asked us if we would be interested in seeing the instrument after he bought it. Why not?

Sadly, there is absolutely nothing that we can do to stop it. Intellectual Property is not well protected in China and we have no ability to wage a legal battle on the other side of the world. Despite it being flattering that people feel positively enough about our designs that they get copied, I often wonder how the people that post here would feel if someone ripped off their life's work. It is very easy to have a theoretical discussion about this stuff, but when it is your personal ideas that get ripped off, I don't know, it just doesn't feel right at all...

J
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OK. I was just curious. And it is too bad that there is no recourse. Thanks.
 
#200
ahc said:
And it is too bad that there is no recourse. Thanks.
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Indeed. What is the point of developing anything innovative if a Chinese company will steal your designs and offer bottom-dollar faulty replicas? Progress is not driven by plagiarism.

There is a funny video of Jens Ritter posing as a journalist at NAMM, and approaching a booth selling Ritter copies. The guys in the booth appear to either not understand him, or understand him enough that they get suspicious and evasive and stonewall him. Jens takes it all in good heart, but I'm sure many people wouldn't. I'm not too quick to confuse "there is nothing you can do to stop the Chinese" and "there are Fender copies all over the market" with something being morally right on a deep-seated level. Leo Fender didn't have a legal eye, and that is why you get so many F-derived products at all price points in the market.
 

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