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NBD (Fauxdera content)

#141
SolarMan said:
I am willing to engage you to the hilt on this...

But is it worth it?

I respect you as a TB member. I have read and valued a ton of your posts.

You, Sir, are a man among men.

I am more concerned with the conditioning of the human mind and relating it to human response.


I will dis-engage right now (as I think we "should")


But I disagree with everything that you have done.


-solar-
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Thank you.

You are free to disagree with everything that I have done, but I wouldn't want you or anyone else to do so without knowing the context.
 
#144
SolarMan said:
...the hipocrisy in this thread astounds me...

#1) So, it isn't stealing from Leo? Then, please, let me know what you call it.

#2) So, if the fake is better than the original, it is Okay?

(let us just say that Luthier X makes a better Fauxdera than Fodera. And please don't tell me that it would be impossible.)

#3) I'm done saying please, because that is too polite.

The most ripped off bass on planet earth is just brushed aside?
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I think this is an interesting line of questioning. It brings up the problem of whether something is right or wrong solely based on its legality. Is it "okay" to make instruments that look almost identical to Fenders just because it is legal to do so? I think it's incredibly lame but I'm not sure if it's wrong :hmm:

Baird6869 said:
Henry Ford invented the car. Should GM, Chrysler and the rest not be allowed to make a vehicle with 4 wheels or a steering wheel?
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Should they be able to make vehicles that are almost identical to Fords?

Zentner said:
Does a Nordstrand look like a fender? Sure... do they ultimately take sales away from fender? I doubt it.
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If people couldn't buy high-end basses that look like Fenders...what would they buy?
 
#146
Herrick said:
Should they be able to make vehicles that are almost identical to Fords?
?
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After 20 years they can.

If Leo Fender had a patent on his original design, it expired a long time ago, so it is absolutely legal to copy it today.

I'm not sure what the precise legal process is, but AFAIK, you have to alter an existing patent by 15%, whatever that means, to get a new patent issued. So if they wanted to copy a Ford vehicle, they could, - 15%, and assuming that Ford filed a patent for each new design they manufacture, which they likely do.
 
#147
tastybasslines said:
After 20 years they can.

If Leo Fender had a patent on his original design, it expired a long time ago, so it is absolutely legal to copy it today.

I'm not sure what the precise legal process is, but AFAIK, you have to alter an existing patent by 15%, whatever that means, to get a new patent issued. So if they wanted to copy a Ford vehicle, they could, - 15%, and assuming that Ford filed a patent for each new design they manufacture, which they likely do.
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Patents have a limited life but trademarks do not. Trademarks last so long as you keep doing business using them. Hence Fender still sues over headstock shape because it's a trademark. And they will continue to do so so long as they use it in business. The patents if they had any on pickup design etc. have long since expired.

Hence the only REAL problem with the Fauxdera is the Butterfly logo and any other registered "trademark" features of the copy. The court test, however, is that an ordinary person would confuse the copy with the real thing. Hence if you put a butterfly logo on something not a bass, unless Fodera is selling those items too, there's no infringement.
You might argue that nobody would confuse a fauxdera with the real thing, but the public isn't very perceptive and the test is the public, not just bass players.

And note by the way that *I* can put a butterfly on my bass no problem. But I'm not in business to sell them. dig? This is why some instrument kits come with an uncut headstock so you can cop a Gibson or Fender shape, but the company selling it to you can't do that.
 
#148
tastybasslines said:
After 20 years they can.

If Leo Fender had a patent on his original design, it expired a long time ago, so it is absolutely legal to copy it today.

I'm not sure what the precise legal process is, but AFAIK, you have to alter an existing patent by 15%, whatever that means, to get a new patent issued. So if they wanted to copy a Ford vehicle, they could, - 15%, and assuming that Ford filed a patent for each new design they manufacture, which they likely do.
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I was trying to give a better example than the one Baird6869 gave. The body designs of Fender Ps & Js haven't changed (significantly if at all) & are still being produced by Fender, so it would be akin to Chrysler & others putting out something that looks almost identical to a 2013 Ford model.
 
#150
nostatic said:
Fraud is fraud. Rickenfakers are BS imho as are these Fauxderas. People who buy fakes are perpetuating thievery. I'm sure that some years back people looked at fake Rolexes and said, "obvious fake, can't hurt the brand." Today you can find ones that are almost indistinguishable sold for low and high prices. So at this point any used Rolex is suspect. Bad for the brand, bad for owners and buyers.
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I agree with you. And to add to what you said, consider the example of the fake Gibsons coming out of China that have become incredibly close to the real ones. Buying a used Gibson has now become fairly risky unless you are very knowledgable.

That seems a prime example of issues that may/will arise from the fake Fauxderas.
 
#153
I have learned a lot from your post. Thanks for sharing your bass. It makes sense that one might want to avoid knock-off basses... but I have to admit I came across this thread wanting to check the thoughts of other players regarding this issue. I had a bookmark saved from one of those chinese websites. $$$ is an issue. Best I save more and get better.
 
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#154
Angus said:
Wait, be fair for a second- that bass looks better than a lot of instruments that are posted here. Your response that it looks terrible is largely due to your feelings about it being a Fodera copy, but that does not look "terrible", objectively, right? It seems that is largely based on circumstance.

I don't know if the pickups are slanted, but it is probably just the perspective.
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Don't roscoe basses, among other expensive types, slant the pups??
 
#156
Well, today was the day that Charles brought the Fauxdera to the shop. The one word that came out of our mouths multiple times was "crude." Without reviewing the instrument in detail, I would absolutely say that anyone paying the $300 that this cost could do MUCH, MUCH better in virtually every way...from build quality, playability and tone. This instrument was just bad. Lots of sloppy workmanship, terrible sound and horrible electronics.

While we appreciate that people think highly enough of what we are doing to copy it, we would feel terrible for anyone having to suffer through an instrument this poorly built.

We really appreciate Charles taking the time (and spending his money) to allow us this opportunity.

Kindest regards,

Jason
 
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#158
Just Thumpin' said:
Well, today was the day that Charles brought the Fauxdera to the shop. The one word that came out of our mouths multiple times was "crude." Without reviewing the instrument in detail, I would absolutely say that anyone paying the $300 that this cost could do MUCH, MUCH better in virtually every way...from build quality, playability and tone. This instrument was just bad. Lots of sloppy workmanship, terrible sound and horrible electronics.

While we appreciate that people think highly enough of what we are doing to copy it, we would feel terrible for anyone having to suffer through an instrument this poorly built.

We really appreciate Charles taking the time (and spending his money) to allow us this opportunity.

Kindest regards,

Jason
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Did it have lead-based lacquer? I bet it has lead strings. Darn chinese are always lead-i-fying every damn thing they send over here.
 
#159
Just Thumpin' said:
Well, today was the day that Charles brought the Fauxdera to the shop. The one word that came out of our mouths multiple times was "crude." Without reviewing the instrument in detail, I would absolutely say that anyone paying the $300 that this cost could do MUCH, MUCH better in virtually every way...from build quality, playability and tone. This instrument was just bad. Lots of sloppy workmanship, terrible sound and horrible electronics.

While we appreciate that people think highly enough of what we are doing to copy it, we would feel terrible for anyone having to suffer through an instrument this poorly built.

We really appreciate Charles taking the time (and spending his money) to allow us this opportunity.

Kindest regards,

Jason
Click to expand...

Please don't let it touch any wood or part that may go into my custom build. I don't want lead poisoning or cheap bass cooties.;)
 
#160
arock0627 said:
Did it have lead-based lacquer? I bet it has lead strings. Darn chinese are always lead-i-fying every damn thing they send over here.
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The strings were… something.

They did manage to get the electronics working. Apparently, the Michael Fauxpe preamp was shorting out on one of the pots. In fixing it, not only would I have racked up more in bench costs had I kept it than I spent on it, we discovered that it sounds TERRIBLE. I don't know quite how to describe the "sound," but it is one I would be happy to never hear again.

Funnily enough, by taking half hour tour of Fodera's shop, I am more prepared to make a knock off than whoever built this was.
 

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