• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

NBD (Fauxdera content)

#121
bassbenj said:
This thread got me thinking the same thing, so I whipped out my ESP LTD that looks just like this Fauxdera (more or less) and pondered it.

Clearly my ESP is the Fauxdera answer! My ESP is FAR better than the Fauxdera! The spalting is WAY nice, especially on the headstock. The neck is an absolute dream! Tone is powerful and great. Hardware is excellent, it's black chrome and looks very expensive (even though it's not) Contruction is excellent and has high end features like separate battery box...and oh yeah, electronics not only work, they sound great. And it's all in this price range.

Plus I got to TRY it before I bought it. I noticed Sam Ash has another one in now and it's not nearly as nice as mine! This is the point. The reason you buy an instrument like Fodera is because you VALUE the artistic opinion of the guys that built it. It's not the wood or parts or butteryfly on the headstock that matters but the ENTIRE artistic combination of all of it and how it works together. THAT is what makes the Fodera worth the big money.

In the case of my ESP that artistic opinion was mine when I picked mine out of the other ESP chinese basses out there. (Which of course was why I didn't have to pay a Fodera price for it because my opinion is worth squat)

But to me one thing IS clear. That if I joined a Flecktones tribute band and wanted a Fauxdera, the ANSWER would be to send my ESP to Viet Nam and get the inlayers there to put a nice butterfly logo on the headstock! :hiding:
Click to expand...

Haha! I'm glad someone was on the same page as me! When I saw this the first thing that came to mind is the ESP LTD. There is a 6 string at GC here in Omaha, thinking about picking it up. I play it every time I'm in there. Been wanting a 6 string, not sure if I want to commit premium price to one, but this is a great way to try it out plus who doesn't need a beater bass right?

I know we should get all pissed off at Chinese knockoffs, but honestly it is hurting people in China too. My best friend is from China and this summer when he goes home he is actually bringing a guitar for his friend. A Gibson SG Standard. There he can't get a real one for less than double what we charge here and even there it runs the risk of it being a fake at the end of the day. Yeah this all sucks but you have to look at it for what it is. Is that Fauxdera worth what he paid for it? Probably, but you get what you pay for. I'd rather get the ESP though.
 
#128
SolarMan said:
Exactly.

Fenders IP is still IP - it just wasn't protected by law

So, stealing is ok if you can get away with it?
Click to expand...

Nope. If it is legal to copy or use a similar design (like in this case), it is absolutely not stealing. Fender's IP is not protected in this case.

Henry Ford invented the car. Should GM, Chrysler and the rest not be allowed to make a vehicle with 4 wheels or a steering wheel?
 
#129
Baird6869 said:
Nope. If it is legal to copy or use a similar design (like in this case), it is absolutely not stealing. Fender's IP is not protected in this case.

Henry Ford invented the car. Should GM, Chrysler and the rest not be allowed to make a vehicle with 4 wheels or a steering wheel?
Click to expand...

But Henry Ford didn't invent the car, which is why even now he couldn't claim IP. He could've patented the assembly process, but they would've found a way around it.

IP is tricky, because you don't really have it unless you aggressively pursue keeping it...and even then it does not cross borders, usually.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Larry V
#130
I understand the concern for fraudulent copies of any brand.

Unfortunately there are alot of hypocrites on the Talkbass forum.
There are daily threads showcasing new Fender copies/part basses with the fake decals etc.
There is actually a thread on Talkbass showing how to apply decals (Fake Fender decals used) http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f57/decal-application-pic-tutorial-682386/

There are a ton of fake Fenders, Gibsons, Rickenbackers, Musicmans, Warwicks etc...funny thing is I've seen most of them on Talkbass.

Overseas fraud is wrong but it goes on daily right here.

Where do you draw the line? :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 47th Street
#131
nostatic said:
I have no problem with some builder knocking off the shape or general design. But the logo is my personal line in the sand - at that point it is only there to fool some of the people some of the time. And that is to the detriment of the brand, and more broadly, to all owners.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree. If they had done a "familiar" looking bass with, let's say a dragonfly inlay, it would be more of a homage to the iconic Fodera brand, but straight-out copying the logo (no matter how poorly)... FRAUD.
 
#134
...the hipocrisy in this thread astounds me...

(Yeah, I said that I can't believe I wasted 5 minutes of my life looking at this junk...but the topic has shifted, so we can let that go?)

Or no!


Normally I like to lay kind of low and let the flames fly as they may - or not. But at the risk of becoming a marginalized TB'er; I am going to point out a couple of things that "concern" me.

#1) So, it isn't stealing from Leo? Then, please, let me know what you call it.

#2) So, if the fake is better than the original, it is Okay?

(let us just say that Luthier X makes a better Fauxdera than Fodera. And please don't tell me that it would be impossible.)

#3) I'm done saying please, because that is too polite.

The most ripped off bass on planet earth is just brushed aside?

~


[I guess the question I would ask of you is: Where do you draw the line? And then I would ask you if being biased is a good or bad thing. And if you are like the majority of "us" - (Americans - and yes, that is important) - you would say that being biased is a bad thing]

☼

This thread could turn out to be quite telling (to yourself) about your true feelings, and where do they come from?



And here is the part where I am going to throw it down:

♫


Dear OP,

I know you say that you bought this bass to help Fodera bring a lawsuit or at least just have a look.

I disagree with that premise.

You bought it because you wanted to check it out - but needed a justification to hit the order button. You convinced yourself that you were doing a public service.

Well...look at the "damage" you have done:

People that aren't even members (*or that are and won't say "I'm buying one"*) are now exposed to this "honestly evaluated at price point bass"

Do you know how many Chinese and Polish F-deras that you have sold?

Neither do I, but lets be for real:

If you feel the need to take a stand; DON'T BUY THIS JUNK... EVER!

You have given them a purchase - and exposure.

Honestly, I don't care...but studying human behavior just happens to be a hobby of mine.

(and look at that, I said that I don't care when, clearly, I do)


Let the flames fly, my brothers...but for me this is just too much.

-Solar-
 
  • Like
Reactions: 47th Street
#135
So let me get this straight, someone put out a budget singlecut style bass that is similar to a fodera, correct? And all you guys are saying that it would be wrong for me to buy this budget bass because I can't afford a new or used fodera?
 
#138
This whole thread is really funny for me. Everyone gets their nose out of joint over the smallest things.

Does it look like a fodera? It's a singlecut with a butterfly on the headstock........ Does a Nordstrand look like a fender? Sure... do they ultimately take sales away from fender? I doubt it. Is a bass like this devaluing all the foderas out there? I for one don't think so...

Anyone interested in a bass with a butterfly on the headstock can jump for joy that they can now buy one directly from china instead of chopping up their LTD in their garage and inlaying their own. I don't know if fodera owns a license to their logo, but if they do, I'm sure they'll respond accordingly. It seems that most people who buy a fodera buy one for the hand craftsmanship of the instrument, playability, choice of exotic woods, choice of specs, and customer service- NOT the butterfly, so why is everyone so surprised or angry?

I personally like Jens Ritter's approach on the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARyVweFJH5A
 
#139
SolarMan said:
Dear OP,

I know you say that you bought this bass to help Fodera bring a lawsuit or at least just have a look.

I disagree with that premise.

You bought it because you wanted to check it out - but needed a justification to hit the order button. You convinced yourself that you were doing a public service.

Well...look at the "damage" you have done:

People that aren't even members (*or that are and won't say "I'm buying one"*) are now exposed to this "honestly evaluated at price point bass"

Do you know how many Chinese and Polish F-deras that you have sold?

Neither do I, but lets be for real:

If you feel the need to take a stand; DON'T BUY THIS JUNK... EVER!

You have given them a purchase - and exposure.

Honestly, I don't care...but studying human behavior just happens to be a hobby of mine.

(and look at that, I said that I don't care when, clearly, I do)


Let the flames fly, my brothers...but for me this is just too much.

-Solar-
Click to expand...

Lets take this apart line by line

SolarMan said:
I know you say that you bought this bass to help Fodera bring a lawsuit or at least just have a look.

I disagree with that premise.

You bought it because you wanted to check it out - but needed a justification to hit the order button. You convinced yourself that you were doing a public service.
Click to expand...

I don't just say it, I mean it. Before I even purchased the bass, I sent a PM to Jason at Fodera asking him if he/anyone else at Fodera would be interested in seeing one of these knockoffs. I said in my original PM to Jason: "I would only be interested in purchasing one of these if some greater good could come out of this, so if having one of these knockoffs in your hands wouldn't be helpful, tell me and I will drop the topic." He said that that "Would be awesome" while admitting that he wasn't sure what, if anything could be done legally.

As for "having a look," you are completely correct. I did have it shipped to my house instead of Fodera's workshop. I justified this to myself easily. First, a lot of people in the original thread seemed interested in the bass. This fact has been proven true by the fact that this thread now has 140 posts in it. Second, it was my money that bought it. I believe that I had every right to "first dibs."


In other words, I didn't convince myself of anything. I saw an opportunity where I thought I could help, asked the people I would be helping if it would be helpful, and then once they gave me the goahead, only then did I buy the bass.


SolarMan said:
Well...look at the "damage" you have done:

People that aren't even members (*or that are and won't say "I'm buying one"*) are now exposed to this "honestly evaluated at price point bass"

Do you know how many Chinese and Polish F-deras that you have sold?
Click to expand...

Um, what damage? If you are referring to loss of business for Fodera, then you assume that people who were looking to buy a Fodera would even consider purchasing one of these in lieu of a real Fodera. That hypothesis is so moronic, that I really shouldn't even have to explain. Perhaps you mean environmental damage caused by the lax manufacturing regulations in China? If that's true then you should take a good long look in the mirror because I'll bet my Alembic that the device you used to post this message was made, if not entirely then in part, in China.

Would you rather I not be honest? I got some flack early on for being "too nice" so I added the big red disclaimer in the OP. If it was a piece of crap, I would have said so. In fact, I was very straight up with the fact that the electronics were DOA. The fact that it isn't a piece of crap should worry you a lot more than any "damage" I may or may not have done.

I did not know about the existence Polish Fauxderas. In fact, I wasn't even the one to link them. Also, the link to the Chinese Fauxderas was posted in a much older thread and not even by me.

Finally, you seem to be blaming me for the actions of others. Actually, not even that! The potential actions of others! Who knows how many Fauxderas they sold before and after this thread? I certainly don't.


SolarMan said:
If you feel the need to take a stand; DON'T BUY THIS JUNK... EVER!

You have given them a purchase - and exposure.
Click to expand...
I didn't do this because I wanted to make a stand. While I truly admire their work, I can't really think of how my life would be different if Fodera were to go out of business tomorrow. I did this because I wanted to help a company that I admire.

Yes, I gave them a purchase (and I guess exposure), but you seem more upset than Jason!

In all honesty, I am starting to regret going public on this. I thought that that there was a modicum of interest an honest and objective review of a Fauxdera. Unfortunately, all it has done is started a couple flame wars and nurtured mild defamation of my character. All this because I tried to help a small business and review a bass objectively and publicly. :spit:
 
#140
I am willing to engage you to the hilt on this...

But is it worth it?

I respect you as a TB member. I have read and valued a ton of your posts.

You, Sir, are a man among men.

I am more concerned with the conditioning of the human mind and relating it to human response.


I will dis-engage right now (as I think we "should")


But I disagree with everything that you have done.


-solar-
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back