Sorry about your troubles, you certainly deserve to be satisfied by a purchase of that magnitude. You've seemed to have ruled out the pickups, since you tried each solo, and it's unlikely that both are defective. You also seem to rule out the preamp, as you've played it in passive and don't like that sound either. If you haven't already, you might check pickup phase wiring. What is most telling is that you don't like it unplugged. Perhaps there is nothing wrong with the bass; it's simply producing sounds you don't like. Have you asked about the possibility of a return with payment of a restock fee?
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NBD: Kiesel IC5 :-(
- Thread starter Bliff Curton
- Start date
Yea, I would send it back and talk to my credit card about the whole thing. Explain that the employee offered you a full refund because the instrument is defective but then the other employee is jerking you around. They'll probably ask for delivery confirmation that you shipped it and then they'll pull your money back from the company. At that time, call carvin/kiesel and tell them that you wont be accepting the instrument and if they check their records, they no longer have your payment.
Honestly, situations like this are the initial reason i never trusted carvin/kiesel. Its as if they intentionally avoid stores where people can try out the instruments. I cant see any logical reasoning for that with something like an instrument. I mean, yea.. their margin gets a bump without the middle man but it clearly doesnt cover the gap compared to the quantity they'd sell if they were in stores around the world. If I had to theorize, they're built on the human condition that we dont like to admit when we're wrong. I've heard a large amount of carvin owners stick up for them... and a large amount of people that played one but didnt purchase, say that they defined underwhelming. Especially at the prices theyre charging these days. I mean, $2200 is more than I paid for my USA Zon Sonus 6 in 8/10 condition. Its also more than I paid for both of my Lulls. For whatever reason, they have a resurgence right now but it looks like its already simmering down.
Additionally.... if you like your soundgear and want a really nice bass... I had an SR5005 and it was absolutely stellar. You can get them for around $1500ish in minty shape if you look online at gc/used , ebay, reverb etc. It was everything you could ever love about a soundgear, to the max.
Honestly, situations like this are the initial reason i never trusted carvin/kiesel. Its as if they intentionally avoid stores where people can try out the instruments. I cant see any logical reasoning for that with something like an instrument. I mean, yea.. their margin gets a bump without the middle man but it clearly doesnt cover the gap compared to the quantity they'd sell if they were in stores around the world. If I had to theorize, they're built on the human condition that we dont like to admit when we're wrong. I've heard a large amount of carvin owners stick up for them... and a large amount of people that played one but didnt purchase, say that they defined underwhelming. Especially at the prices theyre charging these days. I mean, $2200 is more than I paid for my USA Zon Sonus 6 in 8/10 condition. Its also more than I paid for both of my Lulls. For whatever reason, they have a resurgence right now but it looks like its already simmering down.
Additionally.... if you like your soundgear and want a really nice bass... I had an SR5005 and it was absolutely stellar. You can get them for around $1500ish in minty shape if you look online at gc/used , ebay, reverb etc. It was everything you could ever love about a soundgear, to the max.
Shouldnt be a restock fee since it was already built and listed on their site. I mean... if they built it from scratch for his order, yes.
I understand your sentiment for sure. I like my Carvin. I hate the color! It looked great in the computer picture but not in my guitar room! However, it sounds great and feels perfect. But here's something that may be interesting. I never have played it through either my SVT7PRO or my SVT Classic. Only my Fender Rumble 200c. This may be a really stupid question but, could my stainless steel fretted bass sound good only through a non tube amp? Please forgive my ignorance but I haven't a lot of experience with the technical aspect of bass sounds. Just a thought. As soon as I get my cast off TOMORROW, I'm gonna hook up my Ampegs to the Carvin and see what happens. Have a great day friends!
I dont think that would make a difference. Any additional zing of SS frets can be dialed out by one click of the treble control on most amps, or switching strings, or a subtle bump of your tone knob.
I’ve been playing and gigging since 1985.... Carvin never had a stellar reputation. It’s pretty clear that Kiesel, while changing their name, will continue the tradition. Very sad. I’m really sorry, Bliff. I hope this all gets resolved for you.
On my last visit to Bass Central the bass that impressed me the most was an NS Radius CR5. I NEVER buy new, but I would have bought that one if the money was in my pocket - solid, quality feel, great tone, it was awesome - and I tried out a number of other high-end production and boutique basses there (no, I didn't pull down the Alembic or Dingwall Prima Artist off the wall as I felt unworthy to even touch them).
I tried a LB76 that was at a local shop and the bi-directional truss rod had slipped - giving the neck either a lot of relief or a TON of relief - almost unplayable. The sound was good but not as clear or rich as my fiver. I don't think the frets had anything to do with it.
I like the SS frets on my five, but everything else combined together sounds great to me. Return it and get the CR5.
Raz
I tried a LB76 that was at a local shop and the bi-directional truss rod had slipped - giving the neck either a lot of relief or a TON of relief - almost unplayable. The sound was good but not as clear or rich as my fiver. I don't think the frets had anything to do with it.
I like the SS frets on my five, but everything else combined together sounds great to me. Return it and get the CR5.
Raz
This is a very handy guide:
How to Use a Credit Card Chargeback
Kiesel makes a very nice looking instrument. They have done a few things over the last several years that makes me question their integrity. Their return policy is one of them. Check out the help section of their website. There are several inconsistencies on returns.
Something else to think about. How does Kiesel determine what in-stock instruments have a return policy and what ones do not? OP may have found the answer.
How to Use a Credit Card Chargeback
Kiesel makes a very nice looking instrument. They have done a few things over the last several years that makes me question their integrity. Their return policy is one of them. Check out the help section of their website. There are several inconsistencies on returns.
Something else to think about. How does Kiesel determine what in-stock instruments have a return policy and what ones do not? OP may have found the answer.
They sell mail order because that is their business model, not because they`re trying to pull a fast one by selling garbage. And you get to test the instrument in your own home through your own gear for 10 days (assuming you have the 10 day trial). That can be way better than trying a bass in a music store noise with background noise and pushy salesmen.
Sorry, but your theory is bogus since many people do return their Carvins to the factory. I have done so. Certainly they`re not for everyone, just like any other brand.
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Saying that that's their business model doesn't change anything lol. I was pointing out that it's their business model in the first place. And yes, you get to test it in your home... which lowers the rate of returns because many people view it as a hassle and the close rate jumps dramatically when somebody tries something out in their home. Its an old sales tactic that plays on your brains sense of ownership because the instrument is now at your house and feels more like it belongs there. I worked in sales and we always offered free in-home consultations for this exact reason. Packing something up and removing it from your home is very different from putting something back on the shelf of a store that you dont own. Even in car sales, its a tactic to have them cruise past their house on a test drive if they're local. Human brains are computers, there are tricks to manipulating them.
Also, you said "many" people return them. Do you work for carvin and are privy to this information or are you just speculating and stating it as fact?
Well, I don`t know what to say to that since I`ve never felt the need to keep a returnable item just because it`s at my house. 10 days is plenty of time to change your mind about an instrument and sleep on your decision and nobody is breathing down your back. No, I don`t work for Carvin nor do I have exact figures. I have seen numerous examples of people sending stuff back, that`s all.
Oh I agree with you on it being a good way to test. But you and I are quite likely a small % of consumers when it comes down to it. The fact that we spend time on a forum like this points to it as well.
I was just stating that after working sales for years, I was at a company that did a full month of training and they used a program developed by psychologists and sales pros. It was crazy how many details were done for the sake of controlling the human brain like a PC. Car/Kie is definitely brilliant for the in-home test because it jacks the close rate through the roof.
When I was with Tweeter in the 90's, they stated that after tracking numbers at all locations.. that the close rate jumped to 88% if we could get into the customers house.
I googled Tweeter. Were you selling home entertainment systems? I can see buyers being reluctant to return large items that have been installed in their home. A guitar or bass, not so much.
I was an in-home specialist for them. We wouldnt usually bring or install products on the consultation. It was essentially, the clients showing me around their home and discussing where they wanted speakers and music and so on. Basically, I would use my knowledge of products and install possibilities to help meet their goals.
About half of these were done during the construction phase of new home builds that we would pre-wire for whole house systems. A decent amount were commercial as well. Things like a mom n pop restaurant wanting discreet options for music in the dining area that they could easily operate.
Once I was in the home, I would take tons of notes and draw diagrams and then set up an appointment for them to come in the next week where I would have three printed proposals (good,better,best) and we would proceed from there.
We would sometimes loan gear for home trials but that would involve a CC deposit and in all technicality, they were basically buying them right off the bat and then using the return policy if they didnt like them. Regardless, it was a great selling tool. If they were looking at a pair of bookshelf speakers for instance, I would say "Ill tell you what. How about I bring both of these to your home right now, set them up for you, and give you the rest of the week to go back and forth with them in the room they'll live in. I want to be 100% certain that you are getting the best option for you."
Of course they would love this, so I'd pack up the two pairs....and some really nice stands...and some really nice cables...and go set them up. At the end of the week I'd go to pick them up and ask which was the winner... then I'd ask things like "did you find that the 6 foot cables were good for you or did you want go with 10 footers? Same with the stands... we would use an A/B Close tactic combined with the Assumed Close to sell the high margin accessories. In most cases the speakers were about $1200-1800/pr but the cables averaged $200-300/pr and the stands were about another $300. It really helped to close the whole package by having it in their home because without the stands/cables, we were "reducing" the performance that they just spent the week analyzing in order to make a decision.
From personal experience, I would say that about 80% of the time, once the product hit their home, they bought the whole experience at the end of the week.
Versus about a 20% close rate in the store for walk ins, and a 66% close rate for be-backs (when they returned)
Completely agree with @MordBass. The psychological aspect of in-home testing is why many mail order companies offer home trials and other businesses are eagerly willing to set out in-home consultations. In my past life, I would easily close twice as many deals after being in-house or at location than I would in my office. The sense of familiarity and security is an amazing sales tool. And I was selling financial products carrying nothing more around than a notebook, binder and laptop computer. And dog treats for those who had them.
I completely missed that. Did an employee offer a full refund because the bass was defective?
True. All of it. However, I'm sorry, but I don't there is anyone at Carvin smart enough to have thought of that.
Post #99. He mentioned that he spoke to a rep and a manager with different results.
Agreed. I think the OP is out of luck. It`s clearly stated that there is no return on his bass.
You may disagree with it after the fact but it`s stated up front.
You buy it, you take your chances. It is what it is. You are right about subjective taste. So far we`ve only heard one person`s opinion. It paints a pretty grim picture of the sound to be sure but without a sound clip or video there`s really no way to know.
Yeah, well I’m pretty sure that Kiesel will lose sales due to this thread.
