Maybe, but I can see why they would stick to the no return rule (assuming the bass isn`t defective). Why bother having rules if you`re going to back down whenever somebody complains?
Now if the sales manager was rude then that doesn`t look good!
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NBD: Kiesel IC5 :-(
- Thread starter Bliff Curton
- Start date
Now if the sales manager was rude then that doesn`t look good!
Yeah...I don't think that can be interpreted in any way that the rep offered a refund because the bass was defective. Be careful.
I agree 100%. Its like we were saying earlier that yes, its their business model but to me, it raises suspicion. When every other company is trying to put their instruments on shelves so people can touch them.. and every store is offering generous return policies to encourage buyer confidence... it makes me skeptical when one company does the exact opposite on both sides.
True but thats enough for some CC companies. The hierarchy of employees isnt always taken into consideration in situations like this. At the very least it shows that the ability to return as defective has been considered in the ballpark by an active employee, on the clock, while serving a customer.
The first person I talked to was Mike.
He was nice.
When I told him my problems, he took a moment to read my email. He said, “Ok. Do you want a return ir a refund?”
I said refund. He said ok, hold on.
He transfered me to Noble. Noble said no returns, but they could take a look at it under warranty. He iterated three times that Kiesel accepting this bass for repairs is not consituting them accempting it back as a return replacement or refund.
I said, well this puts us in an interesting position....ok, lets have you take a look at it.
Then he hung up on me.
No follow up, no discussion about a shipping label, just hung up on me.
So I wrote an email with “Attn Jeff” in the subject.
I said I will have my CC company get invilved if we cant resolve this.
This morning I got an email, but not from Jeff.
Joe Stone wrote this,
“We can certainly appreciate your concerns and we understand your point of view; however, we must stand firm on our longstanding company policy that any instrument with option RTF is automatically non-returnable. And there is a note on the invoice which clearly states that this sale is a no 10-day trial, no return, no exchange, no refund transaction. You still have a 5yr warranty on the instrument and we can certainly take care of any issues that are warranty related, such as the electronics as you mentioned in the previous email. Unfortunately, we are not able to accept any returns, exchanges or refunds on this particular sale.”
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Id be on the phone with the CC company right now and take the position that the instrument being defective negates any normal policy on their end. They are free to have any policy they want, but that doesnt mean that it'll hold up as a way to send out defective products. You have thoroughly tested the product and it doesnt perform like others that they have put out. I would be talking to the CC company, and if they arent on your side, I would start gently telling them that you havent had any issues with your other cards like this.
The fact that theyre worried about making their margin on this one instrument instead of being concerned about the customer is just pathetic. Anybody that knows what theyre doing would have apologized, had you return the bass, and offered options in order to make you happy. One sale can get you a customer for the day but how you handle a mess can get you a customer for life.
It`s worth noting that non-returnable Kiesels are the exception rather than the norm. Some options that a customer requests are non-refundable because they would be difficult or impossible to resell should the customer not like the end result. And a 10 day trial period is quite generous in my opinion.
I agree that its not the norm for them. I just think its weird that they would try to uphold that in a situation like this where the instrument was built/advertised on their site and not a custom order.
Also, if you find a 10 day trial period generous.. Im wondering where you usually shop. Most places are 30 days, guitar center is 45 now, while some are even longer. It really helps to move product because it shows confidence in what you're selling. Additionally, the company benefits because a large portion of what does get returned, is returned for a different product from the company anyways so they still retain a sale. Thats the beauty of those policies. My guitarist bought a Gibson from GC last year... played it at rehearsals for 3 weeks and decided it just wasnt doing it for him... took it back, added more money and left with a PRS that he loves. So yea, they actually increased their transaction by allowing the return.
Then you simply don`t buy it in the first place unless you can go to the Kiesel showroom and test drive it first. Which may be how many of these non-returnable in stock pieces sell, I dunno?
Sadowsky has a 7 day return policy. Bass Central`s return policy is 48 hours. Bass San Diego, 48 hours. Club Bass (Toronto) returns are at their discretion and subject to a 25% or higher restocking fee and refunds are not given, only store credit.
How many custom guitar makers give you a 30 or 45 day no-questions-asked refund policy?
But is it really custom if I didnt customize it?
Anyone can nitpick the semantics of any one singular element of this situation.
But backing up and being cognizent of the situation as a whole - how Kiesel is behaving - does not leave room for interpretation.
I was polite on the phone but they hung up on me mid-conversation.
I was willing to talk to them about an exchange for the mahogany LB75 in stock, but Im no longer interested in owning a Kiesel product after they hang up on me.
My assumption is that I was met with hositility because they saw this thread and took it personal. But a business entity ought never take anything personal; its just business. Further, its not like Im trolling their social media or doing anything dishonest.
Kiesel seems to have one hell of an ego
This whole experience keeps progessing towards worse.
Anyone can nitpick the semantics of any one singular element of this situation.
But backing up and being cognizent of the situation as a whole - how Kiesel is behaving - does not leave room for interpretation.
I was polite on the phone but they hung up on me mid-conversation.
I was willing to talk to them about an exchange for the mahogany LB75 in stock, but Im no longer interested in owning a Kiesel product after they hang up on me.
My assumption is that I was met with hositility because they saw this thread and took it personal. But a business entity ought never take anything personal; its just business. Further, its not like Im trolling their social media or doing anything dishonest.
Kiesel seems to have one hell of an ego
This whole experience keeps progessing towards worse.
Youre talking sadowsky from their own show room. There are plenty of places that stock sadowsky and could give you a longer policy. Also, you're citing single location businesses while I am citing national chains that although leave much d
Im agree with you. At the end of the day are they really any different than if fender didnt build anything till it was ordered and called them custom after you pick from options that wouldve been on production models anyways? And yes... you didnt order yours. Besides, if this were any of the actual custom builders, they wouldve been very concerned with your happiness and wanted to make things right. Theres a reason that Roscoe, Sadowsky, Lull, and the likes are so highly regarded after many years of being in business. This never wouldve happened with them because they wouldnt have sent it out if it werent right...and if it happened anyways.. theyd have made it right because they have integrity.
Kiesel should be worried about damage control at this point.... This post won’t disappear.
No, but you knew that going in.
Yeah, that would turn me off too.
Kiesel's non-returnable inventory makes no sense to me. They have Option 50 for certain features that are available but unusual. Policy used to be that if you ordered something with Option 50, it was not returnable. Buyer beware.
Look at their in-stock page. It has since changed from this morning but there is now at lease one Option 50 bass on there with the 10-day return window. There also appears to be no rhyme or reason why some of them have no return policy and others do. That screams sketchy at best.
Again, their past antics have led me to question their integrity. OP's situation does not do anything to sway my opinion.
Look at their in-stock page. It has since changed from this morning but there is now at lease one Option 50 bass on there with the 10-day return window. There also appears to be no rhyme or reason why some of them have no return policy and others do. That screams sketchy at best.
Again, their past antics have led me to question their integrity. OP's situation does not do anything to sway my opinion.
My apologies... been having computer issues and it looks like my reply to you was chopped up.. What I was meaning to say was that yes... Sadowsky has a 7 day policy but they would never try to stick somebody with a bass that wasnt right. Also, you can buy their instruments from other shops, some of which have a longer policy. Additionally, you're citing single location businesses, while I am citing national companies that although they leave much to be desired... trounce them in gross revenue.
In the industries I worked, most returned items are brought back for a comparable item so you still make a solid sale and you ease the trigger finger of the buyer by having the return policy. GC has done plenty wrong over the years but their return policy has brought in tons of money for a reason.
Also, although Keisel technically makes "custom instruments"... we both know that its absurd to consider them in the company of people like Mike, Michael, Roger, Keith etc.
Unfortunately the sting of purchasing a Kiesel bass that's not working for you will only be compounded by the sting of the poor resale of said bass. Hope everything works out for you.
In Canada we have Long and McQuade, who offer a 30 day return policy. But I'm mainly interested in the more exotic boutique/high end stuff and they don't carry that.
I think they'll probably just replace the electronics, if anything. Having the credit card company reverse the charge might be difficult, unless structurally the bass is not playable. Doesn't sound like that's the problem. I hope they do that for you, and the bass sounds good when you get it back. When will you ship it?
I'm pretty familiar with Kiesel's stuff. If you link some of these instruments for which you do not know why they are non-returnable: I could probably tell you why.
I have stayed a fan of Kiesel, because in my opinion, they have nailed the feel. The first time I played a Lull, was a few months after owning my Carvin/Kiesel Icon. And the whole time I thought "this reminds me of my Icon. And the Lull was about $700 more, used!
Also, when you get the spec just right and the instrument shows up and it really feels like your own signature model: It's hard to downplay that as a factor for fandom and future purchases.
For the money, I can't get small frets anywhere else. And that's a really big deal, for me.
I have certainly had issues with QC and/or order correctness. While they have ultimately takeb car of me in those situations, it is really annoying to deal with that.
But, nobody else, for the money, is making something I would like as much, or more. So, I never get non-returnable options and endure through the issues. Because, once its right, Kiesel makes what I want. It is annoying. But it's how the cards play right now.
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