Hey, what ever happened to the vaunted (Carvin) "low action guarantee"?? Has that gone out the window with the new Kiesel brand? I have a 1979 Carvin here and the action is 1.85 mm with no buzzes ( and I dig in pretty hard... )
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NBD: Kiesel IC5 :-(
- Thread starter Bliff Curton
- Start date
Hey, what ever happened to the vaunted (Carvin) "low action guarantee"?? Has that gone out the window with the new Kiesel brand? I have a 1979 Carvin here and the action is 1.85 mm with no buzzes ( and I dig in pretty hard... )
Every time I consider a Carvin/Kiesel as a serious option, I read about things like this experience that push me away and back to companies that stand behind their products. I personally can't think of anyone else that didn't have at least a 24 hour return window after receiving the bass, regardless of materials or build method. I haven't bought a new bass from a brick and mortar store in over 20 years and I've had nothing but positive experiences when I've wanted to get a refund on my purchases.
I am amazed (in a bad way) about your experience. Customer service is so, so critical in business today. Consumers have so many choices and so many ways to express their good and bad buying experiences in front of huge audiences all over the world in literally minutes.
This is why the resale value of Carvin is so low. Really bad customer service.
I'm a business owner. If I saw a forum in that my company was the subject, I would be on it in a second, either defending my company or apologizing. I'm shocked you were hung up on. I missed that sentence. I'm sorry this happened to you. It can only be one person who says one thing to someone and, bang, an entire company shuts its doors. That's all it takes sometimes. This I know, until I read here on TB that you got an apology from them, I will never purchase another Carvin instrument. I have 2. A custom bass and guitar. I have 6 more. I spent a fortune on American instruments but not another penny on Carvin instruments until I read the apology to you from them.
Edit! I have 6 more basses. Not all Carvins. Also, since I'm an idiot, I think I pushed the wrong button. I was supposed to be referring to Bliff Curtons original post. Sorry!
That is right on. Business’ that sell inferior products will eventually suffer without proper customer support. If you align yourself with less desirable business partner it will effect a business. These days are dangerous with the was word of mouth can travel. I think Kiesel will review their policies in the near future once word of Bliff Curton’s experiences spread.
Poor resale is because people don't want to buy someone else's custom instrument, they would sooner get their own. Speaking personally, a company's customer service doesn't enter into my purchase of a used instrument since it's usually out of warranty anyway.
Before we throw the baby out with the bathwater I would like to hear Kiesel' s side of the story. Or at least a sound clip of the bass.
Agreed. The very reason I said I want an apology. Or at least Carvins explanation.
Have a wonderful day.
Tom
Well so far, I'm not sure what Keisel needs to explain.
They sold a non returnable bass to someone. It was on the website, and the buyer acknowledged that it was not returnable or refundable before the ourchase.
Buyer doesn't like the bass for whatever reason, writes an email and calls asking to return a bass and get a refund.
Keisel restates their no return no refund policy that the buyer agreed to before purchase, but will take the bass back for warranty work for the next 5 years, per the terms agreed to before purchase.
Buyer writes another email direct to the owner of the company threatening to reverse payment with his credit card company if no refund is given (I'm assuming refund is the only resolution, because the sales manager offered to take the bass and make repairs covered by warranty work, and the buyer was not satisfied.).
The return email again restates the no refund no return policy that the buyer agreed to, and again offered warranty work for 5 years.
Meanwhile,
Folks in an internet thread, including a few who have a dislike for Carvin as a whole, agree that a bass that they've never heard or played is defective on the whole, and demand the company refund the purchase price of the bass.
In fact, 3 or 4 decide they will never purchase a Carvin bass because they will not refund a bass that was sold as non refundable.
1 guy even feels he is owed an apology because some other guy got hung up on.
To be clear, if someone from Keisel were to read this thread (and it was suggested that they had already done so, and we're unaccommodating as a result, even though the person had not even read the 1st email of complaint until on the phone with the buyer) here is what they would find:
Suggestions that Keisel only do direct sales because they know they have inferior product.
In stock instruments listed as non returnable are knowingly defective.
Accused of "questionable integrity" for unspecified "business practices."
And my personal favorite
Step by step advice about how to defraud the credit card company and keisel, by lying about what was said during a phone conversation, despite having emails and sales receipts to the contrary.
Keisel is doing what they said they would do.
I bought a Kiesel/Carvin three years ago, but I went to their San Diego store when visiting my daughter and played the instrument of which I would be ordering in a different color. In todays culture, I would never (through bad experiences) buy without playing the product or same type of product. I looked at Kiesel/Carvin for many years, but just wouldn't pull the trigger until I got out there and played the (AC50) bass. I am so sorry for your loss of money. Wish we could hear what you hear. Sound Clip?? On a side, I replaced pickups/preamp in my Schecter, and switched out the Pickups in my MIM PBass (to Geezers) shortly after purchase. Also dumped my Ibanez SoundGear SR505 (a pawn shop trade) because I didn't like the sound, loved the neck, but not the sound. I ordered a G&L L2000 Tribute without hearing it....that is what I used for trade at the pawn shop. The most satisfying pickups and playability I have when playing straight into my amp (no pedal board) is my '91 Peavey Foundation ($90) with Super Ferrites....who knew.. Sometimes that is the way it goes.
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Send the bass back and see if they can get it fixed. Oh, wait, did you get the appropriate info to do so, or did they hang up on you? I seem to remember them hanging up on you....
- Dec 21, 2007
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And that in itself is reason not to buy (or to be very, very wary buying) something from Kiesel.
No return/no refund for an off-the-shelf new bass.
Interestingly their website (for "In Stock Guitars") says "These are new instruments, and are fully covered by Kiesel Guitars' 5 Year Warranty and 10-Day No Risk Trial."
Only specific instruments have a note "NO 10-DAY TRIAL OR RETURNS ON THIS INSTRUMENT"
So yes, it is stated. And in fact, because it's only on specific instruments, it says to me "we think this instrument sucks, and we'd like to stick you with it."
No Kiesel for me, thanks, for many reasons.
Rest of post snipped for brevity.
Before I went to bed last night, I read the last post in the thread, and started to wonder about the entire 'story'. My mental synopsis was very similar to yours and I planned to write a summary in the morning but you saved me from having to do it.
I'm back to giving them the benefit of the doubt.
These two threads make for a good read:
Carvin Liquidating
Stolen gear alert: Carvin/Kiesel was robbed
Carvin Liquidating
Stolen gear alert: Carvin/Kiesel was robbed
Let me try to explain my position again. I'm not staying away from them because they wouldn't refund the OP's purchase. I think, and I may have done a bad job of it, I said I want to hear of an apology from Carvin IF they did hang up. Now I realize I only have the OP's side, and that's my fault for not asking for clarification. So moving forward, I was speaking in haste. The OP may or may not have a legitimate complaint. He said his bass sounded bad. That means nothing to me since sound is subjective. If its broken, then Carvin should fix it. I guess we only have one side of the story and my assumption and quick response was unwarranted. For all I know, the OP was meaner than a pig under a gate so I would expect most people to hang up too. I still hope he gets his situation resolved. As I said several times on TB, I am absolutely delighted in the sound from my Carvin PB4 as well as the customer service I experienced. I still hate the color. Sorry Carvin, it just looked so much better on the web!
That's one way of looking at it, and if so, why are several of the options in custom orders non returnable? My guess is that for the chosen option or finish they would be hard to resell.
Ugh.. been following since the beginning. Was hoping for a better resolution for the OP. Really hoping this works out for you.
Not that this will help but when Keisel was Carvin I had taken a few trips to the showroom. They were close by, the catalog options seemed limitless on a waiter's budget... Went with money in hand, each time completely let down by the in-stock stuff. This was years ago but the basses and electronics were lifeless. The instruments I liked just didn't have "it". At all. Didn't inspire much confidence in ordering custom. Just my experience, and I may be in the minority on that.
Tough spot here for the OP.
Not that this will help but when Keisel was Carvin I had taken a few trips to the showroom. They were close by, the catalog options seemed limitless on a waiter's budget... Went with money in hand, each time completely let down by the in-stock stuff. This was years ago but the basses and electronics were lifeless. The instruments I liked just didn't have "it". At all. Didn't inspire much confidence in ordering custom. Just my experience, and I may be in the minority on that.
Tough spot here for the OP.
This rings true. Just a couple of years ago, I was all ready to order a Kiesel Allan Holdsworth H2 signature model after years of considering it to be the most beautiful guitar ever made. I had money waiting to go, I had been over the spec sheet a hundred times and was just about ready to submit my order when Jeff Kiesel posted the video about how the company had been "robbed", begging for help from customers to make orders. He did point out that the company wasn't going to go under but that a lot of the guys in the workshop were understandably pretty bummed. I assumed they had been burgled, although it later transpired that they had been a victim of mail fraud and the losses were covered. I found Jeff's framing of the situation and his use of it as an opportunity to drive sales to be rather disingenuous. I never did make the order, because I felt like the Carvin I knew and loved was gone.
Correct, i was hung up on without having been given any shipping info for warranty repairs.
Bliff, why won’t you post a video or some sound clips of the bass? I’m really curious to hear what’s going on, as are others, and we might be able to help.
