NCAA Bowl Season 2011

[Eublet]

"Also, it's been proven pretty consistently that if you put the best non-SEC teams with those powerful offesnses up against a supposed mediocre SEC offensive team with a stout defense , the SEC wins every time."

Your quoting me, but Georgia doesn't have what I'd call a stout defense. They're pretty good.

 

[MJ5150]

The Gators beat OSU again, and that's about all I care about. The SEC roolz!

-Mike

 

[Eublet]

How can they win? They don't even get to play the game. [/qoute]Why don't they? All Boise State had to do was knock off one more patsy in their own stadium. Couldn't do it. All OSU had to do was not let a suck Iowa St team beat them. Too much to ask! Why should either of those teams get a chance with that on their resume. I wait, you're going to say OSU had a bertter resume. Why do all the voters seem to disagree then? The SEC doesn't have a corner on voting.

Boise state already demolished an SEC div. champ. Proving this whole "The SEC can't lose" myth wrong.

In the big game, my friend. That's what folks vote for at the end of the season. An SEC team hasn't been beaten for 5 years now, and they've faced the best team from the rest of the country. Obviously the SEC teams lose some bowl games when they face challenges from other conferences. From the statistics I recall, we're stil well over .500 when mid-range SEC teams face mid-range opponents in bowl games. But when it comes to our best against everyone elses, it's been lopsided for a long time.

This really isn't an SEC vs. everyone else argument on my side, but a defense vs offense debate. Even USC under their run had very strong defensive units. The SEC just happens to focus on that consistently. Over the last 5 years though, it seems teams have tried to beat the SEC with high-powered offenses which are generally neutralized in the big game. Those teams haven't slowed down the SEC offenses much at all however, statistically at least. I think Auburn's championship over Oregon was one of the exceptions, but we all know how much their offense revolved around a single person who just didn't have a great game, but still managed to win.

 

[basstotheface]

Your quoting me, but Georgia doesn't have what I'd call a stout defense. They're pretty good.

But they have the 3rd best in the SEC.

The SEC is not top to bottom different than any conference. They're top contributors are just contributing right now (like every other conference has had). OK and Texas, USC and Oregon, FSU and VT (Mia in a different time), OSU and Mich.

 

[Eublet]

The Gators beat OSU again, and that's about all I care about. The SEC roolz!

-Mike

Honestly, I was a bit surprised to see that. I thought OSU would pull out a win. Glad it didn't happen though.

 

[basstotheface]

Alabama missed 3 field goals. They didn't lose to a good TCU team, or lose on the road. They missed 3 FG and lost in their own house.

 

[GregC]

Maybe SEC defenses just aren't good.

Look at their out-of-conference play.

 

[basstotheface]

Look at their out-of-conference play.

I...did. Boise State was brought up just last page.

 

[Eublet]

But they have the 3rd best in the SEC.

In the East. It doesn't count for much IMO this year.

The SEC is not top to bottom different than any conference. They're top contributors are just contributing right now (like every other conference has had). OK and Texas, USC and Oregon, FSU and VT (Mia in a different time), OSU and Mich.

I think we agree on this point. OSU under Tressel played conservative ball with an emphasis on smart offense and bend-but-don't break defense. I think his formula was fairly close, but couldn't quite put them over the top in big games. SEC defense really focuses on destroying anything that moves. It's a bit different from other places. I think it gives an edge in the big games when everything is on the line. The only reason I think the SEC is the premier conference is because the best teams spend their whole season honing that defense, and the offensive guys don't really get the confidence over inflated as with other conferences.

Said another way, I think it's much harder to have a high-powered offense in the SEC. Florida managed it a couple of years, and even then they couldn't put together an undefeated season with it. They had arguably the best college player of all time to make it all work though. Auburn under Newton was certainly high-powered though fairly lopsided. It still worked for them with a good but somewhat average defense. You wouldn't have known it from watching Oregon struggle to get 19 points though.

Another way of looking at things is how football trends have changed. The spread offense has largely run it's course in the SEC. I think it can be effective still, but many SEC teams put considerable effort and focus into stopping Meyer at Florida. SEC teams have also had to go and face spread offenses in bowl games. There's much more general football knowledge out there now about defending the spread. There's no magic formula of course because your still talking about college-age kids and them not really having the ability to execute things as effectively as they always should. But there's definitely a trend toward pro-style offenses again instead of the spread. Many teams are learning this the hardway. I've been saying for years now that I thought this would happen. Not to toot my own horn at all, but a pro-style offense is easier to manage in terms of the ups and downs of individual play execution. It's not as reliant on a superman-style QB, and it makes consistency more achievable. To put it all together though, you have to have a stout defense because it means you'll be in some closer games against seemingly inferior opponents. It takes a bit of patience to let a 60 minute game unfold with the hopes that you'll wear down a team and start grinding them late in the game. We've see Bama and LSU do this all year. On Nov 5th however, they couldn't really wear the other down, so the game came down to a few key plays and missed opportunities. That's totally different than Stanford for example who missed an opportunity to hit a field goal for 41 total points late in regulation play, only to lose by 3 points in overtime. Neither team played consistent defense which would have easily won either the game.

I think the style of play is just coming into focus, but I have my doubts that non-SEC teams will change anytime soon. The pressure on a coach is ultimately to win their league, not to win a national championship. Few of those coaches are going to make drastic changes because they feel they have to have offensive firepower to compete in their own league. They spend their scholarship allowances getting as much of that talent as possible.

Sooner or later, an SEC team will lose a championship game, or not get there at all. It won't change what I think about defense being more important, and there have been many times I've wondered why Bama couldn't open things up a bit in years past. This is really the first year I've been able to sit back and be amazed at how we have just rolled over teams offensively.

 

[Eublet]

Alabama missed 3 field goals. They didn't lose to a good TCU team, or lose on the road. They missed 3 FG and lost in their own house.

I think you're referring to Boise's loss to TCU. You call TCU a "good team", but they were also an unranked team from a pretty pathetic conference, and they did beat Boise State on the smurf turf. What matters more than anything for folks who really watched the Nov 5th game was that Bama and LSU looked scary on the field, defensively. Nobody had ever held Trent Richardson like that. Nobody had ever taken the Honey Badger out of the game like that. Both Heisman candidates looked average even though they both had really good games statistically. What sticks out are the missed field goals, the lack of first downs, the constant punting war. I guess for some that means that LSU's victory was not very impressive, or that Bama's inability to just hit one of those field goals means they suck and don't deserve a chance. I accept that, but I sure don't understand it.

 

[GregC]

I...did. Boise State was brought up just last page.

That's one game, try some others.

 

[basstotheface]

Sooner or later, an SEC team will lose a championship game, or not get there at all. It won't change what I think about defense being more important, and there have been many times I've wondered why Bama couldn't open things up a bit in years past. This is really the first year I've been able to sit back and be amazed at how we have just rolled over teams offensively.

I'm an FSU fan and a DB. Nothing is better than defense.

But I guess I don't get how one side of the game is more important than the other.

A great offense can, and has, beaten a great D.

 

[basstotheface]

That's one game, try some others.

Other games this year where SEC football teams didn't play good defense? Easy.

Furman, MSU, GSU, LTU, Cinn, Utah State, Clemson. There's more.

Because the entirety of the SEC isn't this incredible collection of teams that only lose because they play other incredible teams in the SEC.

 

[aborgman]

Your quoting me, but Georgia doesn't have what I'd call a stout defense. They're pretty good.

The #3 defense in what folks are claiming is THE BEST DEFENSIVE CONFERENCE OF ALL doesn't have a stout defense? That seems to argue against the SEC being a super great conference defensively.

 

[aborgman]

In the East.

Nope.

#3 defense in the ENTIRE SEC.

 

[Pilgrim]

SOME of the strongest teams in the us are in the SEC. Not all of them are, and not all of the SEC conference is good. However, congrats to the SEC for what they have achieved in recent years.

 

[aborgman]

What matters more than anything for folks who really watched the Nov 5th game was that Bama and LSU looked scary on the field, defensively. Nobody had ever held Trent Richardson like that.

Trent Richardson vs LSU:
23 carries, 89 yards, 3.9 YPC


Trent Richardson vs Kent State (2011)
13 carries, 37 yards, 2.8 YPC.

Trent Richardson vs Auburn (2010)
10 carries, 24 yards, 2.4 YPC

Trent Richardson vs Kentucky (2009)
14 carries, 26 yards, 1.9 YPC

Trent Richardson vs Auburn (2009)
15 carries, 51 yards, 3.4 YPC

 

[GregC]

Other games this year where SEC football teams didn't play good defense? Easy.

Furman, MSU, GSU, LTU, Cinn, Utah State, Clemson. There's more.

Because the entirety of the SEC isn't this incredible collection of teams that only lose because they play other incredible teams in the SEC.

I don't believe anyone has said that's the case.

As I already pointed out, MSU scored only 20 points on offense in regulation and the rest came from a pick six and triple OT. I know UF sucked horribly against Furman in the first quarter, so OK. You don't say which SEC teams played the others (or in which years), so I'm left to speculate. Maybe GSU, LTU and Utah State put up points in garbage time.

Meanwhile, on the biggest stage: UF/OSU in the '06 title game, UF/OK in '08, Auburn/Oregon last year (I'll leave out Bama/Texas since McCoy got hurt).

As for this year so far in the bowls, South Carolina held Nebraska to its lowest point total of the year, and UF held OSU 7 points below its average.

 

[basstotheface]

All games I listed were this year.

Top to bottom the SEC is no different than the Big 10 (12), Big 12 (10), and PAC 12. They're just cycling right now and happen to have their top teams performing well.

EDIT: OSU didn't have fit the bill for high powered offense.

 

[MJ5150]

Nevermind.

-Mike