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Neck Dive...Really?

#21
My 77 jazz, which weighs a lot (pushing 14 lbs, thing is a rock) has no issues. Neither my Spector nor Warwick have issues.

My P bass has a big problem with neck dive. It's a very light body, supposedly a 75, with a chunky 68 Tele bass neck, and it very fatiguing to play. I have tried the trick where you loop the strap through your belt, and it helps, but is really a pita. I need to get a few Scuba weights to attach to the back of the strap when I want to play it. It sounds really good and P-bassy though so I won't get rid of it, or even mess with the tuners or bridge.
 
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#25
fhm555 said:
Hey folks...

So I keep seeing all these warnings about neck dive with Fender basses. I've never owned enough P basse long enough to have any real standing up all night performing with a P experience, but what limited experience I do have in that regard, I cannot recall ever having to wrestle to keep the neck up off the floor.

With Jazz basses I've own(ed) all manner of variants from Fender, standard, dinky body, long scale, UL tuners, factory BA bridge, factory Schaller locking bridge, and just about anything else you can think of. I've also logged a lot of hours standing all night with a Jazz performing and have never experienced even a hint of neck dive. I've also discussed this with a lot of other bass players and so far I have yet to meet a single bass player with any experience with neck dive when using a Fender Jazz bass.

Outside of Fenders I've played a lot of other basses over the years, a lot of different Peavey models, a bunch of hollow and semi hollow bodies, short scale, long scale, ex long scale, and 4 and 5 strings and unless it happened in my sleep I can honestly say I've never experienced any neck dive, or so little I can't recall it happening.

Am I living a sheltered life or is there something I'm missing here. I understand the basic premise of balance and how strap button placement, top horn length, etc, can have an effect on balance, or the obvious too much weight out at the end of that lever called the neck, but are there other factors like where you wear you bass in relation to your body, neck angle in relation to the ground, type of strap, width of strap, etc that can contribute to or cause neck dive.

I'm just trying to get a handle on why I read about neck dive but have never experienced it and don't know anyone else who has.

Thanks in advance for any and all opinions and experiences.
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I have afew basses that neck dive to varying degrees.

The dive is always there, but its way more noticeable with certain techniques. Two handed tapping, for example. In that case, the left hand is not really supporting the neck anymore, so it droops down in an obvious way. But when playing regular style, I don't really notice the dive because I'm automatically compensating for it unconsciously.

My guess is the players who you mention who never experienced it either play a well balanced bass, or do have subtle neck dive and are are subtly compensating without realizing.
 
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#26
My first bass appeared to suffer from neck dive. I replaced the cheap strap that came with it with what I thought was a good strap, problem remained. I figured I was just stuck with a crappy bass that dove and that was the cost of getting a cheap beginner bass. Then I received a really decent strap as a birthday present and the dive went away. Some basses are worse than others, but I think that a lot of people who experience neck dive just need a different strap.
 
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#27
I had one of these in the eighties that was a pretty bad neck diver:
1985-Ibanez-Roadstar-5-string-bass-in-pearl-_1.jpg

I think it was one of the first 5-string basses that Ibanez made.
 
#28
The only bass I've ever owned that has balanced itself exactly where I like it, is my Warwick Fortress. That long upper arm is a godsend.

As for fenders, I've absolutely has issues with neck dive on both jazz basses and especially on precisions... I guess the offset body shape helps a bit.

It's a real phenomenon but maybe not as prevalent as it seems here on Talkbass
 
#29
There's just so many variables.

If you take a look at the Squier Jag Short Scale club you'll see many have neck dive issues and many don't. Much of it appears to be the weight of the body which varies quite a bit. Heavy body = less neck dive.
My little Jag dives a bit even after installing Gotoh ultralite tuners which helped a little but not as much as hoped considering the cost compared to the instrument cost. It's not too bad but I need to readjust every couple of songs.

My Franken P has a tiny bit of dive and requires me lifting the neck occasionally but not enough to bother me.

My Godin Shifter Classic is perfectly balanced and decently light weight.

My Blacktop Jazz fretless is perfectly balanced but the heaviest of my basses and I wouldn't want to do a three hour gig with it..... i'd be spending every cent I earned from the gig on the chiropractor two days later. :laugh:

This one below though...... yeah, it dives quite a bit (but not as much as I expected it to) :roflmao:

20151031_505-2.jpg
 
#33
Another reason why many end up with a bass that has neck dive,is that they don't take a strap with them to the store when they check out a bass.
Many will sit and balance on their leg.
Check out everything else but the balance with a strap.
They go home and strap it on at band practice and it's nuclear sub time!
 
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#34
Some folks see nothing but problems while others take it all in stride, as in, "It's all good."

I have a Jack Casady bass which is a hollow body with the upper strap button directly behind the neck-body joint. That strap button location together with the weight distribution makes this the Jacques Cousteau of neck divers. It doesn't bother me at all but There are others here who talk as if their left arm is curling a twenty pound dumbell all night.

My point? Whether neck dive is a problem is for you to decide.
 
#35
Ant Illington said:
I don't think you read about it that much, I think you are being rather dramatic in that long post. But I agree that Fender doesn't neck dive, and my left wrist is pretty lame and is sensitive to all sorts of bass neck challenges including neck dive.
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Sorry to disappoint with all the drama. I ask this because almost evry thread I read where people are asking about a particular bass, especially a Fender J or P, there will invariably be replies warning of neck dive.

I've experienced pretty much everything mentioned here when folks talk about problems, excess buzz and rattle, nasty pots, weak/open coil pups, frets worn out, frets in need of leveling/dressing, wonky necks, intonation problems, etc, etc, etc, but I've never had a bass I strapped on that neck dived. I've had them settle at different angles, but it's never enough to even be noticed other than to note it occurred.

I believe I'm beginning to figure this thing out. When I hear neck dive, the image I get is the headstock trying to hit the floor every time I take my hands off my bass, something I've never experienced. Based on what I'm learning here now, it seems (at least to me) a lot of what is described as neck dive is in fact a failure to gee and haw between an instruments designed point of balance and an individual's preferred point of balance. The instrument is not actually trying to crash to the floor as the strap slides over your shoulder, it's just laying in an awkward playing position for some folks.

Thanks for your help.
 
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#36
fhm555 said:
Sorry to disappoint with all the drama. I ask this because almost evry thread I read where people are asking about a particular bass, especially a Fender J or P, there will invariably be replies warning of neck dive.

I've experienced pretty much everything mentioned here when folks talk about problems, excess buzz and rattle, nasty pots, weak/open coil pups, frets worn out, frets in need of leveling/dressing, wonky necks, intonation problems, etc, etc, etc, but I've never had a bass I strapped on that neck dived. I've had them settle at different angles, but it's never enough to even be noticed other than to note it occurred.

I believe I'm beginning to figure this thing out. When I hear neck dive, the image I get is the headstock trying to hit the floor every time I take my hands off my bass, something I've never experienced. Based on what I'm learning here now, it seems (at least to me) a lot of what is described as neck dive is in fact a failure to gee and haw between an instruments designed point of balance and an individual's preferred point of balance. The instrument is not actually trying to crash to the floor as the strap slides over your shoulder, it's just laying in an awkward playing position for some folks.

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
I strapped my 9 pound jazz bass on a few minutes ago. With a suede finish on the inside of the strap I can let go with both hands and it stays in place.
 
#38
fhm555 said:
I believe I'm beginning to figure this thing out. When I hear neck dive, the image I get is the headstock trying to hit the floor every time I take my hands off my bass, something I've never experienced. Based on what I'm learning here now, it seems (at least to me) a lot of what is described as neck dive is in fact a failure to gee and haw between an instruments designed point of balance and an individual's preferred point of balance. The instrument is not actually trying to crash to the floor as the strap slides over your shoulder, it's just laying in an awkward playing position for some folks.

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

Yes. For me, neck dive means the headstock has a tendency to want to go down (towards the floor). That can be in varying degrees of severity, but any time it requires some effort to counterbalance from the player (either by holding the neck with your fretting hand or pushing down at the body), then that qualifies.
 
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#39
Warwick Infinity SE - does neck dive (choice of starp helps it to be usable) My Gibson T-Bird used to but I moved the bottom Straplock button up some and that stopped. Now she stays in place. None of my Spectors dive. G&L 2000 doesn't dive either.
 
#40
It could also be a matter related to the type of strap you use. Some straps mitigate neck dive much better than others. I know the cloth/knit cotton straps I use will often do away with mild neck dive. A nylon strap, however, does a terrible job of this.

I presume big, wide, leather straps may handle neck dive better, too, considering they may sit still better.
 

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