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"Neck dive"...

#41
theFixer said:
Understood

I've always loved the T-Bird. Especially that gorgeous dark sunburst! About a week after i first started on bass, I decided the T-Bird was the way I was gonna go. Around a month ago, I went down to Rainbow & picked the one up that's in the link I posted. I was saddened the moment I picked it up. I just could not get comfortable with it. The shape of the upper rear portion of the body, kept me from resting my right forearm in a comfortable or functional way. Perhaps after a few years of playing, I could adapt, but for right now... no Thunderbird for me:(
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'Bird ergos are different from the usual Fender shape ergos. It works better with a longer strap and the neck higher. With the bass rotated around like that, both wrists are straighter, and your right forearm fits comfortably right above the lower bout and below the vestigial upper bout. Hanging the bass like that instead of horizontal also allows really comfortable access to the entire neck without moving your arm in and out near as much. Just up and down, more like an upright. When you think about it that way, it behaves more like an upright bass than a guitar, unlike Fender shaped basses that act more like a guitar than an upright. It's a shading, not a huge difference, but thinking about it in a different way makes a world of difference. I'm used to Thunderbird ergos to the point that I feel awkward when I pick up the Precision. I probably ought to sell the P, since I rarely play it, but having one Fender around seems like it should be a requirement of some kind.

And yeah, we are kinda like a biker gang. We have strange initiation rites, secret handshakes, a clubhouse that's scary looking from the outside, and all that. Really. We do.

And yes, that's a great price for the 2014 you posted. Somebody will be very happy with it.
 
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#44
The G&L ASAT Bass has the upper strap button aligned with the 16th fret (it has a tele body with no upper horn) and is prone to neck dive to many players. This is even more obvious with semi-hollow body ASAT basses. Not so for me, I use a 3" wide leather strap with a suede lining on mine (1990, fretless with a solid ash body, see below) and the bass kindly stays in place. Some ASAT Bass players use a metal strap extender that is bolt onto the neckplate and shifts the strap button aligned to the 12th fret. Some 15 years ago, G&L put 2 differently placed strap buttons at the bottom of the body, that intended to reduce the neck dive issue, but not as well as the other two tricks above.

dscn3154-r-jpg.jpg


Below is a picture of a 2003 semi-hollow ASAT Bass (a tone monster !) that used to be mine. A previous owner has installed a strap pin device on the side of the lower body trough, between the lower horn and the vol pot (like on some folk guitars, I believe), and that I never used.

my-g-l-asat-bass-semi-hollow-2003-sn-b034664-img_6659-rrr-jpg.jpg
 

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#45
theFixer said:
Gooooootcha! My second favorite guitar I've ever owned, was a white Gibson SG, so I'm familiar with this "condition".
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I'm hip! Tried out our guitar player's 1970 walnut SG, and experienced first hand what I'd call body roll or flop. With the strap attached front side first to the button on the back of the guitar it felt to me like it wasn't to hang level with that point of contact.

It was only my body keeping it where it was. Of course I owned (and still do) a Stratocaster, arguably the most comfortable ergonomically designed instrument out there.
 
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#50
lug said:
The proper way to balance a Tbird is to use the patented Dead Cat Balancer. You simply hang the Dead Cat Balancer off the tail end of a Tbird and like magic, it balances perfectly. (note: you must replace the dead cat in The Dead Cat Balancer system after it dries out)
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Yet another handy use for dead cats! A couple o' those & a roll o' duct tape and there's nothin' you can't do!
 
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#51
lug said:
The proper way to balance a Tbird is to use the patented Dead Cat Balancer. You simply hang the Dead Cat Balancer off the tail end of a Tbird and like magic, it balances perfectly. (note: you must replace the dead cat in The Dead Cat Balancer system after it dries out)
Click to expand...
Gotta get me one of those.
 
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#53
MoeTown1986 said:
I bought an Epiphone Thunderbird about 10 years ago. Never knew what neck dive was. I starting gigging about 16 years ago on Ibanez's, then moved to Fenders. I played one gig with my T-bird and sold it. Spent the entire gig trying to hold it up.
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Careful son... yer dancin' on glass here. I can't protect you from the T-Bird Gang!
 
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#56
It's really quite funny! I started this thread by posting a question, & got my answer in the second post. Here we are over 50 posts later, still talking about it! Here's what that tells me:

1) Neck dive is real (an issue I personally had experienced, but referred to differently).

2) Firebirds are frequently (but not always) neck-heavy, causing neck-dive.

3) People who are passionate about Firebirds either adjust their anchor points for better balance, simply aren't bothered by the "condition", or haven't experienced it on their particular 'Birds.

4) T-Bird lovers, are T-Bird brothers. If ya mess with one of 'em, ya mess with ALL of them!

To address numbers 2 and 3 above, in more depth... Mother nature doesn't sit around in a lab coat trying to balance tree DNA. Every single stick that grows out of the ground, is different. Altitude, atmospheric conditions, soil types, precipitation, and about a million other factors go into what each tree is like. This is why I've played Les Pauls that were just over 8lbs., and Les Pauls that were just over 11lbs. This is also why person "A" sez Thunderbirds are neck-divin' bastards, and person "B" sez they're not. I'm neither arborist nor luthier, but it seems to me that the only way to address the issue without changing the design of the guitar, would be to have your neck & your body made out of the same wood from the same section of the same tree. I wouldn't be at all surprised if I were to learn that top-end guys like Fodera, Ken Smith, etc. went out & hand selected which part of which tree (or log) they would use to build each project. Frankly... in the $5,000.00 + range... I hope they do!

Anyhooooo... it's safe to say, I got my answer and we can close the matter. Thank you all!
 
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#58
Balance is achieved by
1) the maker
2) the player

Most things can be fixed. Writing off a brand because of one experience, and then publishing it as a generality is likely to get you cornered at some point.
Lots of Thunderbird players find a numb-nut-easy fix for neck-dive (it didn't get discovered yesterday). You may find it's your bass if you're willing to get just a little bit involved. The reason there are players who like them is not that they're stubborn, dumb, or obtuse. They found out that making it work is not rocket science or costly.

Just a little perspective.
 
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